| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time 16:15 - Jul 24 with 7906 views | ThisIsMyUsername |
Cometh the hour, cometh the TWTD collective.
I've posted on here about 219 times over the past 18-24 months about wanting to relocate from Suffolk, and circumstances have finally levelled out and got to the point where I can finally really look towards taking the step.
My reasons for wanting to leave both Suffolk and England are numerous, and I won't bore you with them all. But the main ones include wanting to minimise my chances of coming across ignorant Brexit-voting gammon heads, as well as finding some of the main facets of English culture (such as going to the pub, or watching/talking about Love Island) incredibly painful, trashy and boring. I'm also just bored in general, and need a fresh start somewhere new, where I can feel invigorated and re-energised.
I could work towards moving to Canada as a physiotherapist, although that would take another 12-18 months, and would require first completing a Master's degree, plus regular French lessons, to get a higher number of immigration points.
I've been looking into it seriously and have applied for some MSc courses. I've been to Canada before (AB and BC; the main city I 'know' being Vancouver), and I think it would be a great way of life.
The problem though is that I love Europe too much. I love European culture, European history, European architecture, as well as simply being close to Europe. No where in Canada (apart from Quebec City - which you may as well forget if you aren't fluent in French) can give you that. Whilst being a great city, on a deeper level I find somewhere like Vancouver soulless and lacking the things that I mention.
So I keep coming back to Edinburgh, despite having never been there. It looks different from anywhere in England, and it looks the most 'European-y' city in the UK. I also believe it has more of an international population, which naturally means you encounter more people with different views of the world.
If I could, though, I'd leave the UK altogether, and go to Europe (that's obviously much more difficult now, and I'm no longer seriously making an effort to make that happen, after having explored many options which led nowhere). The future of the UK just looks grim to me. From its politics, to its economic outlook (poorer than Poland by 2030), to its migrant-hating media and large swathes of the population who lap it all up.
So if I'm to stay here, I need to somehow avoid those negatives as much as possible.
The fact that the majority of Scotland voted to remain in the EU at least gives me some hope that people up there are a bit different. Isn't there also a slightly increased chance of getting back in the EU through an independent Scotland?
What I mainly want to know is, will I find the things that I love, whilst minimising contact with/impact of the things that are frustrating me so much, in Edinburgh?
If not, then I may as well go to Canada. But I don't want to feel forced out of the UK if there's actually a way to make it work and to be happy here.
Bit of a rambley post but having some more objective viewpoints (or subjective ones based on other peoples' experiences) would provide valuable information to help with making a decision.
Thanks. [Post edited 24 Jul 2023 16:19]
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| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 16:28 - Jul 24 with 3406 views | factual_blue |
If you have the opportunity to quit the British Isles entirely, do so. |  |
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| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 16:36 - Jul 24 with 3380 views | giant_stow |
I can't really offer much help other than to suggest you do a decision matrix:
Edinburgh and Canada on one axis and all the pros of each option on the other. weight those Pros in important and give every cell a score out of 5.
Opinion-wise: I'm no shrink, but reading what you write, it seems to me that the Edinburgh option may be a way of clinging on to the familiarity of the UK?
You should also definitely go there: its a handsome & lively place, but on a wet day, everything seems to be granite coloured and grim. I also wonder if culturally, you'd just be replacing the brexit stuff with independence stuff.
Best of luck with your decision. |  |
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| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 16:37 - Jul 24 with 3374 views | ThisIsMyUsername |
| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 16:28 - Jul 24 by factual_blue |
If you have the opportunity to quit the British Isles entirely, do so. |
Is that not a defeatist option though? Essentially saying there's no possible way nor reason to make it worth living anywhere in the UK. | |
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| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 16:40 - Jul 24 with 3357 views | factual_blue |
| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 16:37 - Jul 24 by ThisIsMyUsername |
Is that not a defeatist option though? Essentially saying there's no possible way nor reason to make it worth living anywhere in the UK. |
I think I'm saying life would be better in Canada.
Failing that, Denmark or Sweden. | |
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| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 16:43 - Jul 24 with 3343 views | J2BLUE |
Surely the obvious answer is to visit Edinburgh?
To have it on a shortlist of two having never been is quite odd. [Post edited 25 Jul 2023 8:16]
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| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 16:43 - Jul 24 with 3344 views | ThisIsMyUsername |
| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 16:36 - Jul 24 by giant_stow |
I can't really offer much help other than to suggest you do a decision matrix:
Edinburgh and Canada on one axis and all the pros of each option on the other. weight those Pros in important and give every cell a score out of 5.
Opinion-wise: I'm no shrink, but reading what you write, it seems to me that the Edinburgh option may be a way of clinging on to the familiarity of the UK?
You should also definitely go there: its a handsome & lively place, but on a wet day, everything seems to be granite coloured and grim. I also wonder if culturally, you'd just be replacing the brexit stuff with independence stuff.
Best of luck with your decision. |
Thanks, I'll definitely do the exercise you suggested.
It's a really interesting idea re your no shrink comment and I'll reflect on it, as that could be an influencing factor for all I know.
But there's also a lot of genuinely wanting to find what I'm looking for without having to go to the other side of the world. All I've ever known of the UK is Suffolk. So I'm open to the highly likely possibility that the UK can be very different in different regions. And Scotland must surely be fairly different to England for a start (the rain doesn't bother me either!). | |
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| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 16:44 - Jul 24 with 3337 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
“ But the main ones include wanting to minimise my chances of coming across ignorant Brexit-voting gammon heads, as well as finding some of the main facets of English culture (such as going to the pub, or watching/talking about Love Island)”
Assume there are other reasons for wanting to emigrate, but fairly certain you are going to find ignoramouses and simpletons wherever you go…
If you aren’t totally writing off the UK then somewhere liberal and vibrant like Bristol might suit? For me one of the hardest things about emigrating would be missing Saturdays at the football (but not sure what that says about me as a person)! |  | | |
| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 16:45 - Jul 24 with 3323 views | ThisIsMyUsername |
| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 16:43 - Jul 24 by J2BLUE |
Surely the obvious answer is to visit Edinburgh?
To have it on a shortlist of two having never been is quite odd. [Post edited 25 Jul 2023 8:16]
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I agree. I'm going purely on what I've seen and heard, in order to feel like there are different options to consider. I'm going to visit soon to see for myself what the vibe is like. | |
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| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 16:47 - Jul 24 with 3299 views | the_toff |
Edinburgh over Canada all day long for me, but that's just my opinion.
Also relocating to Europe is harder post Brexit, but still perfectly possible. | | | |
| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 16:47 - Jul 24 with 3294 views | Perublue |
Dublin probably ticks all your boxes and wants. |  |
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| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 16:48 - Jul 24 with 3291 views | ThisIsMyUsername |
| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 16:40 - Jul 24 by factual_blue |
I think I'm saying life would be better in Canada.
Failing that, Denmark or Sweden. |
But how does one go about moving to Denmark or Sweden? Is it not a similar case to any other European country i.e. you need a visa, for which you probably need a job offer, as well as being able to speak a decent amount of the local language? | |
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| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 16:49 - Jul 24 with 3276 views | blueasfook |
| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 16:28 - Jul 24 by factual_blue |
If you have the opportunity to quit the British Isles entirely, do so. |
When you leaving? You're retired aren't you? Nothing to keep you here. |  |
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| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 16:52 - Jul 24 with 3256 views | factual_blue |
| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 16:48 - Jul 24 by ThisIsMyUsername |
But how does one go about moving to Denmark or Sweden? Is it not a similar case to any other European country i.e. you need a visa, for which you probably need a job offer, as well as being able to speak a decent amount of the local language? |
The same is true of any foreign country. | |
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| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 16:52 - Jul 24 with 3256 views | Rozz |
| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 16:37 - Jul 24 by ThisIsMyUsername |
Is that not a defeatist option though? Essentially saying there's no possible way nor reason to make it worth living anywhere in the UK. |
Seems like you've already chosen to engage with that outlook on the rest of the UK based on politics.
I'm quite sympathetic to your views, but from what you've written above the idea that you're absolutely surrounded by Brexit heralding loons on a sinking ship is one you're choosing to fixate on.
Is that going to be replaced by similar social issues when you settle elsewhere? Speaking personally, I have to lock those thoughts in a box in order to get on and enjoy the time I have.
Canada offers an opportunity for solitude and connection to nature that appeals to me. It might be a good place to escape the news. |  | | |
| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 16:52 - Jul 24 with 3252 views | ThisIsMyUsername |
| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 16:44 - Jul 24 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
“ But the main ones include wanting to minimise my chances of coming across ignorant Brexit-voting gammon heads, as well as finding some of the main facets of English culture (such as going to the pub, or watching/talking about Love Island)”
Assume there are other reasons for wanting to emigrate, but fairly certain you are going to find ignoramouses and simpletons wherever you go…
If you aren’t totally writing off the UK then somewhere liberal and vibrant like Bristol might suit? For me one of the hardest things about emigrating would be missing Saturdays at the football (but not sure what that says about me as a person)! |
Of course there will be those people everywhere, but you'd imagine they're slightly less frequent in places which fundamentally have a bit more going for them.
I do like Bristol, but I just don't feel like somewhere else in England would be enough of a change for me.
I'll miss being able to easily go to PR too. | |
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| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 17:00 - Jul 24 with 3206 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 16:52 - Jul 24 by ThisIsMyUsername |
Of course there will be those people everywhere, but you'd imagine they're slightly less frequent in places which fundamentally have a bit more going for them.
I do like Bristol, but I just don't feel like somewhere else in England would be enough of a change for me.
I'll miss being able to easily go to PR too. |
I liked Edinburgh, definitely European vibes albeit it probably doesn’t compare to London in terms of things to do, ‘internationalness’ and general buzz. Imagine the quality of life is better in Edinburgh in terms of cleanliness, affordability, crime etc but only an educated guess.
Fortunately plenty of food options that aren’t haggis… | | | |
| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 17:00 - Jul 24 with 3207 views | ThisIsMyUsername |
| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 16:52 - Jul 24 by Rozz |
Seems like you've already chosen to engage with that outlook on the rest of the UK based on politics.
I'm quite sympathetic to your views, but from what you've written above the idea that you're absolutely surrounded by Brexit heralding loons on a sinking ship is one you're choosing to fixate on.
Is that going to be replaced by similar social issues when you settle elsewhere? Speaking personally, I have to lock those thoughts in a box in order to get on and enjoy the time I have.
Canada offers an opportunity for solitude and connection to nature that appeals to me. It might be a good place to escape the news. |
But I'm saying that I hope politically somewhere like Scotland/Edinburgh could be significantly different to England. I have no idea if it is. I should probably do some research.
The Brexit factor is a biggie. But like I said in my OP, I recognise that Scotland voted to remain. I also like the idea of being in a place which has a lot of international/European people living there.
Maybe someone who lives in Scotland can confirm whether the issues that we are constantly being reminded of in England are also equally highlighted and discussed up there.
Canada has its own problems too, I'm sure.
Edit - I realise this post looks exactly like I'm trying to justify and bias one choice over the other but I'm not. I'm just offering an opposing viewpoint for discussion. [Post edited 24 Jul 2023 17:11]
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| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 17:10 - Jul 24 with 3172 views | bluelou |
It feels like there is a lot to do before you have to decide this, the process for getting permanent residency and then citizenship in Canada is lengthy and by no means cheap.
However I do think that given the opportunity you should do that, rather than a move to Edinburgh (which IMO is a worse city than Glasgow).
Yes you have fantastic scenery on your doorstep there and the links to England but long term economic prospects for the UK are grim. Canada has its problems, Vancouver more than most, but it's seen incredible growth over a generation or two and is massive and varied to keep you interested.
I'm not sure what you're looking for that you feel Vancouver doesnt offer, and I'd never say it's soulless but as mentioned before it's a difficult option to move to off the bat because prices are such that you probably wont be able to live anywhere near the city itself and thats not ideal if you've just moved there.
One option you may not have considered is Vancouver island, in particular Victoria, the capital of BC. It has Canada's best weather (Vancouver isnt as cold as Toronto or Calgary but is rainy af) and cheaper housing and lots of job opportunities. In addition Vancouver island is one of the most beautiful places on earth with places like Tofino/Pacific Rim NP, Campbell River, Comox Valley and Sproat/Cameron/Kennedy lakes. A job such as you describe would allow you to work pretty much anywhere, perhaps working seasonally between the ski and surf locations.
I'd also consider the Okanagan valley, particlarly Kelowna as the only city there. It's the main wine region of Canada and its only desert and is incredible in the summer months. Well worth looking into it. [Post edited 24 Jul 2023 17:21]
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| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 17:19 - Jul 24 with 3133 views | giant_stow |
| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 16:43 - Jul 24 by ThisIsMyUsername |
Thanks, I'll definitely do the exercise you suggested.
It's a really interesting idea re your no shrink comment and I'll reflect on it, as that could be an influencing factor for all I know.
But there's also a lot of genuinely wanting to find what I'm looking for without having to go to the other side of the world. All I've ever known of the UK is Suffolk. So I'm open to the highly likely possibility that the UK can be very different in different regions. And Scotland must surely be fairly different to England for a start (the rain doesn't bother me either!). |
Best of luck fella and one little bit of advice (even though you didn't ask for it!): don't worry too much - nothing is forever, so even if you went for Canada, you could always come back to Edinburgh / elsewhere if it didn't work out. | |
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| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 17:21 - Jul 24 with 3120 views | ThisIsMyUsername |
| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 17:10 - Jul 24 by bluelou |
It feels like there is a lot to do before you have to decide this, the process for getting permanent residency and then citizenship in Canada is lengthy and by no means cheap.
However I do think that given the opportunity you should do that, rather than a move to Edinburgh (which IMO is a worse city than Glasgow).
Yes you have fantastic scenery on your doorstep there and the links to England but long term economic prospects for the UK are grim. Canada has its problems, Vancouver more than most, but it's seen incredible growth over a generation or two and is massive and varied to keep you interested.
I'm not sure what you're looking for that you feel Vancouver doesnt offer, and I'd never say it's soulless but as mentioned before it's a difficult option to move to off the bat because prices are such that you probably wont be able to live anywhere near the city itself and thats not ideal if you've just moved there.
One option you may not have considered is Vancouver island, in particular Victoria, the capital of BC. It has Canada's best weather (Vancouver isnt as cold as Toronto or Calgary but is rainy af) and cheaper housing and lots of job opportunities. In addition Vancouver island is one of the most beautiful places on earth with places like Tofino/Pacific Rim NP, Campbell River, Comox Valley and Sproat/Cameron/Kennedy lakes. A job such as you describe would allow you to work pretty much anywhere, perhaps working seasonally between the ski and surf locations.
I'd also consider the Okanagan valley, particlarly Kelowna as the only city there. It's the main wine region of Canada and its only desert and is incredible in the summer months. Well worth looking into it. [Post edited 24 Jul 2023 17:21]
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Thanks bluelou. I appreciate all the ideas to think about.
I want some stability though at this point, so I'd not consider seasonal-type work, however. | |
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| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 17:33 - Jul 24 with 3076 views | DJR |
I suppose Canada is a bit more of a leap into the unknown.
As it is, I was born in Canada (in Victoria, BC) because my parents emigrated there. But they didn't really settle and so came back to the UK when I was about 1. I don't suppose it helped that initially they lived in Prince Albert, Saskatchewan, where it was so cold in winter that they couldn't bury the dead: the average low in January is minus 23.
I have only been back once and that was to the Ottawa/Quebec region, but I really loved Montreal because it had a really European feel, in contrast to the rest of Canada I visited and the north east of the USA.
The one thing I would say is that I found the people very friendly, but that is also true in Edinburgh, and Scotland more generally.
Edinburgh is a stunning city, but property prices are pretty high.
If it were me, I'd opt for Edinburgh or, if the prices are too high, maybe somewhere not far away. But then again I'm biased because my parents were Scottish.
As it is, I'm hoping for Scottish independence and EU membership, so I can claim my Scottish passport but that may be a little way off. [Post edited 24 Jul 2023 17:37]
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| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 17:40 - Jul 24 with 3043 views | Rozz |
| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 17:00 - Jul 24 by ThisIsMyUsername |
But I'm saying that I hope politically somewhere like Scotland/Edinburgh could be significantly different to England. I have no idea if it is. I should probably do some research.
The Brexit factor is a biggie. But like I said in my OP, I recognise that Scotland voted to remain. I also like the idea of being in a place which has a lot of international/European people living there.
Maybe someone who lives in Scotland can confirm whether the issues that we are constantly being reminded of in England are also equally highlighted and discussed up there.
Canada has its own problems too, I'm sure.
Edit - I realise this post looks exactly like I'm trying to justify and bias one choice over the other but I'm not. I'm just offering an opposing viewpoint for discussion. [Post edited 24 Jul 2023 17:11]
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It seems like you're giving a significant weight to social factors which (speaking from my own privilege) might impact your day to day life more than mine.
If I took all the interactions I had with people in the place I live and flipped their political persuasions, I'm not sure it would make too much difference. I have to be careful not to project my views onto my environment.
Good luck with your decision - and definitely go and visit before you take the plunge. | | | |
| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 17:41 - Jul 24 with 3038 views | WD19 |
I go to Edinburgh lots. It’s basically West London but with cleaner air and more rain. Lovely on a sunny day, gloomy as hell on others. Full of hipsters and people who think they are superior.
Not sure north if the border is the place to escape narrow minded nationalism though. Even in Edinburgh. |  | | |
| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 17:49 - Jul 24 with 3007 views | DJR |
| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 16:43 - Jul 24 by ThisIsMyUsername |
Thanks, I'll definitely do the exercise you suggested.
It's a really interesting idea re your no shrink comment and I'll reflect on it, as that could be an influencing factor for all I know.
But there's also a lot of genuinely wanting to find what I'm looking for without having to go to the other side of the world. All I've ever known of the UK is Suffolk. So I'm open to the highly likely possibility that the UK can be very different in different regions. And Scotland must surely be fairly different to England for a start (the rain doesn't bother me either!). |
My mother always said she thought the Scots were completely different to the English.
And politically it is completely different, leaving aside independence, because it voted Remain and has voted in recent years for the most progressive mainstream party in the UK. | | | |
| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 17:53 - Jul 24 with 2991 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Be sure to pop over for dinner and a drink before you go. I'll do gammon and Miss Slave and Junior love Love Island (to be fair even they are struggling with it now!)
To go a little Buddhist on you, a change in the view will not guarantee a long lasting change on how you feel inside......but it can certainly help for a while.
I don't know what things you love but suspect the answer is more Edinburgh than Canada, it is a pretty good city from what I have heard. |  |
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