| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time 16:15 - Jul 24 with 8064 views | ThisIsMyUsername |
Cometh the hour, cometh the TWTD collective.
I've posted on here about 219 times over the past 18-24 months about wanting to relocate from Suffolk, and circumstances have finally levelled out and got to the point where I can finally really look towards taking the step.
My reasons for wanting to leave both Suffolk and England are numerous, and I won't bore you with them all. But the main ones include wanting to minimise my chances of coming across ignorant Brexit-voting gammon heads, as well as finding some of the main facets of English culture (such as going to the pub, or watching/talking about Love Island) incredibly painful, trashy and boring. I'm also just bored in general, and need a fresh start somewhere new, where I can feel invigorated and re-energised.
I could work towards moving to Canada as a physiotherapist, although that would take another 12-18 months, and would require first completing a Master's degree, plus regular French lessons, to get a higher number of immigration points.
I've been looking into it seriously and have applied for some MSc courses. I've been to Canada before (AB and BC; the main city I 'know' being Vancouver), and I think it would be a great way of life.
The problem though is that I love Europe too much. I love European culture, European history, European architecture, as well as simply being close to Europe. No where in Canada (apart from Quebec City - which you may as well forget if you aren't fluent in French) can give you that. Whilst being a great city, on a deeper level I find somewhere like Vancouver soulless and lacking the things that I mention.
So I keep coming back to Edinburgh, despite having never been there. It looks different from anywhere in England, and it looks the most 'European-y' city in the UK. I also believe it has more of an international population, which naturally means you encounter more people with different views of the world.
If I could, though, I'd leave the UK altogether, and go to Europe (that's obviously much more difficult now, and I'm no longer seriously making an effort to make that happen, after having explored many options which led nowhere). The future of the UK just looks grim to me. From its politics, to its economic outlook (poorer than Poland by 2030), to its migrant-hating media and large swathes of the population who lap it all up.
So if I'm to stay here, I need to somehow avoid those negatives as much as possible.
The fact that the majority of Scotland voted to remain in the EU at least gives me some hope that people up there are a bit different. Isn't there also a slightly increased chance of getting back in the EU through an independent Scotland?
What I mainly want to know is, will I find the things that I love, whilst minimising contact with/impact of the things that are frustrating me so much, in Edinburgh?
If not, then I may as well go to Canada. But I don't want to feel forced out of the UK if there's actually a way to make it work and to be happy here.
Bit of a rambley post but having some more objective viewpoints (or subjective ones based on other peoples' experiences) would provide valuable information to help with making a decision.
Thanks. [Post edited 24 Jul 2023 16:19]
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| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 17:55 - Jul 24 with 1665 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 16:43 - Jul 24 by ThisIsMyUsername |
Thanks, I'll definitely do the exercise you suggested.
It's a really interesting idea re your no shrink comment and I'll reflect on it, as that could be an influencing factor for all I know.
But there's also a lot of genuinely wanting to find what I'm looking for without having to go to the other side of the world. All I've ever known of the UK is Suffolk. So I'm open to the highly likely possibility that the UK can be very different in different regions. And Scotland must surely be fairly different to England for a start (the rain doesn't bother me either!). |
Oh well in that case......Leeds, Bristol.....etc....etc..... |  |
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| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 18:07 - Jul 24 with 1658 views | jontysnut |
I have an aunt in Vancouver and it's a fantastic, diverse, cosmopolitan city with loads of country and wilderness on the doorstep. She loves it but also misses the variety of UK and Europe. Edinburgh is great as a tourist but expensive to live in. |  | | |
| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 18:16 - Jul 24 with 1622 views | saxon |
| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 17:10 - Jul 24 by bluelou |
It feels like there is a lot to do before you have to decide this, the process for getting permanent residency and then citizenship in Canada is lengthy and by no means cheap.
However I do think that given the opportunity you should do that, rather than a move to Edinburgh (which IMO is a worse city than Glasgow).
Yes you have fantastic scenery on your doorstep there and the links to England but long term economic prospects for the UK are grim. Canada has its problems, Vancouver more than most, but it's seen incredible growth over a generation or two and is massive and varied to keep you interested.
I'm not sure what you're looking for that you feel Vancouver doesnt offer, and I'd never say it's soulless but as mentioned before it's a difficult option to move to off the bat because prices are such that you probably wont be able to live anywhere near the city itself and thats not ideal if you've just moved there.
One option you may not have considered is Vancouver island, in particular Victoria, the capital of BC. It has Canada's best weather (Vancouver isnt as cold as Toronto or Calgary but is rainy af) and cheaper housing and lots of job opportunities. In addition Vancouver island is one of the most beautiful places on earth with places like Tofino/Pacific Rim NP, Campbell River, Comox Valley and Sproat/Cameron/Kennedy lakes. A job such as you describe would allow you to work pretty much anywhere, perhaps working seasonally between the ski and surf locations.
I'd also consider the Okanagan valley, particlarly Kelowna as the only city there. It's the main wine region of Canada and its only desert and is incredible in the summer months. Well worth looking into it. [Post edited 24 Jul 2023 17:21]
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As a former resident of the Okanagan Valley I'd second that recommendation. It's less wet than Vancouver, less cold in winter than going further inland to e.g. Calgary. A great place to live if your lifestyle tends towards the outdoors - amazing skiing, golf, lakes and rivers you can canoe, etc.
If you want a more European style Canadian city have a look at Ottowa too. Still a lot of French influence but English speaking. |  | | |
| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 18:38 - Jul 24 with 1605 views | geg1992 |
We’re completely different people with different views im sure. But, personally, Canada would be well worth the extra work.
Purely my opinion but I think Edinburgh is so meh. Canada is an amazing place and there’s so much to see in the rest of the country.
To be able to move to somewhere like Canada would be something I could only dream or, whereas I wouldn’t even consider living in Edinburgh.
I wish you the best of luck in whichever one you choose! |  |
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| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 18:54 - Jul 24 with 1585 views | WeWereZombies |
| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 17:00 - Jul 24 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
I liked Edinburgh, definitely European vibes albeit it probably doesn’t compare to London in terms of things to do, ‘internationalness’ and general buzz. Imagine the quality of life is better in Edinburgh in terms of cleanliness, affordability, crime etc but only an educated guess.
Fortunately plenty of food options that aren’t haggis… |
'Imagine the quality of life is better in Edinburgh in terms of cleanliness, affordability, crime'
Oh, aye, there is a quality to crime in Edinburgh that London can never match... |  |
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| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 19:05 - Jul 24 with 1571 views | 66notout |
Edinburgh every time. Sunshine on Leith. | | | |
| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 19:06 - Jul 24 with 1571 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
I think we may have chatted about this before, possibly under my old username.
I nearly moved to Canada. I had a job offer. I could have made the move at a young enough age to get onto the 5 year track to citizenship.
Family stuff meant I didn't make the move. Edinburgh was my second best option.
I love Canada with all my heart and it will be a regret to my dying day that I didn't make that move.
But that doesn't mean that it is right for you.
As I see it, you have two choices:
1) apply to one of the Universities in Edinburgh for the Masters. If you love Edinburgh, you will have a cohort of friends most of whom will stay. If you don't love Edinburgh then you will have the Masters that will help you on your way in Canada.
2) apply to a Canadian University for a Masters. If you love Canada you will already have a cohort of friends, and University is the easiest way to make such a huge transition and create a new life. I would have thought that you would be able to use some of your physio skills to help pay your way through University there, if your student Visa would allow part time work. If you don't love Canada as much as you thought, or miss the UK or Europe too much, or family circumstances change, you can then try Edinburgh with an additional professional qualification, with a major life experience under your belt, and with a load of friends that you can go and stay with in Canada for the rest of your life!
In my opinion the second option, Canadian University, is best. A Masters from a Canadian University also helps towards your points for Citizenship, and the year or two studying would count towards the qualifying time.
Canadian citizenship can be held alongside British citizenship. A Canadian passport gives complete rights to travel to the USA, and live there for 6 months in 12- the same as UK passport holders now have in Europe. So a sunshine winter in retirement is very possible.
Edit: horrible spelling mistake [Post edited 25 Jul 2023 8:48]
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| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 19:12 - Jul 24 with 1563 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 18:07 - Jul 24 by jontysnut |
I have an aunt in Vancouver and it's a fantastic, diverse, cosmopolitan city with loads of country and wilderness on the doorstep. She loves it but also misses the variety of UK and Europe. Edinburgh is great as a tourist but expensive to live in. |
"Edinburgh is great as a tourist but expensive to live in."
I don't think it is. It's expensive to be a tourist in, but no more expensive than most metropolitan areas of England to live in. | | | |
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| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 19:12 - Jul 24 with 1562 views | Swansea_Blue |
The job might decide it. What are the opportunities like and what’s the job like in either place.
I met a physiotherapist from Canada when I had a few day to kill in Nepal and hired a mountain bike guide. She was his other customer and we had a good few days cycling the rim of Kathmandu Valley. Anyway I digress. It could well have changed now, but she had the option of taking 75% pay but getting 1 year in 4 off and was using that year to travel the world (while receiving her normal 75% pay). It sounded like a great arrangement to me. I can’t remember where she was from though.
My brother and sister in law went to Vancouver on a placement for a year as newly qualified docs. They loved it. BIL had a clinic a third of the size of the ones he has back here now in the UK. They much preferred the working life over there.
I’d move to Quebec City in a shot, but I’ve only been a tourist there so don’t know about work. It’d be worth learning French for (which would then open up the door to France of course).
So if it was me, I’d be off to Canada. Either west coast Vancouver/Island or somewhere outside QC.
There are plenty of other option though, surely? New Zealand? Australia (I’ve also met an Australian physio who constantly moaned about how crap working in the NHS was compared to back home). Melbourne is meant to be great. I know people who relocated to Sydney and love it too.
I suggest finding out about the job opportunities first, as you’ll get nowhere without a working visa and then you’ll be spending a lot of time in work when you’re there.
Good luck. |  |
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| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 19:21 - Jul 24 with 1560 views | Illinoisblue |
Do you need to change the place where you live, or change the way you live and interact with where you are now? |  |
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| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 19:29 - Jul 24 with 1539 views | WeWereZombies |
| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 19:12 - Jul 24 by ArnoldMoorhen |
"Edinburgh is great as a tourist but expensive to live in."
I don't think it is. It's expensive to be a tourist in, but no more expensive than most metropolitan areas of England to live in. |
I've met people who have found Edinburgh so expensive that they have moved out to Fife...Fife! | |
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| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 19:34 - Jul 24 with 1539 views | Herbivore |
Personally, I prefer Glasgow to Edinburgh. The west end especially is amazing and has quite a continental vibe to it. |  |
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| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 19:52 - Jul 24 with 1499 views | DJR |
| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 19:29 - Jul 24 by WeWereZombies |
I've met people who have found Edinburgh so expensive that they have moved out to Fife...Fife! |
There's nothing wrong with the Kingdom of Fife! My mother was born in Ceres, grew up in Cupar and lived later in Newport-on-Tay.
Incidentally, my mother was once stranded in Dundee after the last train, and ended up walking back across the 2.75 mile Tay Rail Bridge. It must have been back in the 40s.
Fortunately, William McGonagall (of Tay Bridge Disaster fame) was no longer around to write a poem about her experience which sounds pretty hairy to me. [Post edited 24 Jul 2023 20:37]
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| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 19:53 - Jul 24 with 1496 views | Daninthecampo |
As an expat for 6 years and my job is also working with expats who move for various reasons, You need to make sure you're moving for the right reasons. Being bored in general and needing a fresh start does not mean you won't be bored in your new life, its a massive commitment to leave the UK, living in Canada compared to me here in Spain is a massive difference, friends and family visit here regularly sometimes just for the weekend,you won't obviously get this being in Canada!
Have you explored a skilled visa as a physio in Europe ? Portugal, Greece Italy etc are all desperate for new tax payers | | | |
| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 20:34 - Jul 24 with 1455 views | WeWereZombies |
| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 19:52 - Jul 24 by DJR |
There's nothing wrong with the Kingdom of Fife! My mother was born in Ceres, grew up in Cupar and lived later in Newport-on-Tay.
Incidentally, my mother was once stranded in Dundee after the last train, and ended up walking back across the 2.75 mile Tay Rail Bridge. It must have been back in the 40s.
Fortunately, William McGonagall (of Tay Bridge Disaster fame) was no longer around to write a poem about her experience which sounds pretty hairy to me. [Post edited 24 Jul 2023 20:37]
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I quite like Dundee although I once had a very spikey altercation with a van driver who nearly drove into my car on the road out to Montrose. It was my fault...of course it was.
Good story about walking the Tay Bridge and I like that they have a brass plaque with some of McGonagall's verse on the Tay Bridge disaster along the walkway there now:
"Beautiful railway bridge of the Silvery Tay!
"With your numerous arches and pillars in so grand array
"And your central girders, which seem to the eye
"To be almost towering to the sky." | |
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| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 21:12 - Jul 24 with 1418 views | emergencylime |
| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 16:47 - Jul 24 by Perublue |
Dublin probably ticks all your boxes and wants. |
I had been thinking about suggesting Ireland when reading the post, though largely because i live here.
However, i’d suggest Cork or Galway (especially as OP doesn’t mind rain!), purely on the basis that Dublin is one of Europe’s most expensive cities in which to live. Having moved from there to the west of Ireland during the pandemic, you get more for your money and is more closely matched with Suffolk in terms of scenery, more laid back lifestyle etc. [Post edited 24 Jul 2023 21:14]
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| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 08:00 - Jul 25 with 1316 views | nodge_blue |
If you think you won’t find narrow minded people in other parts of the world I think you may be very disappointed. As much as I hate Brexit you can see that the far right has a strong support in Italy, Spain, France and many other European countries. Despite it all I don’t think Britain is worse than anywhere else.
Ultimately if you want to experience other places that’s understandable. Good luck wherever you go. |  |
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| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 08:28 - Jul 25 with 1287 views | lowhouseblue |
| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 17:00 - Jul 24 by ThisIsMyUsername |
But I'm saying that I hope politically somewhere like Scotland/Edinburgh could be significantly different to England. I have no idea if it is. I should probably do some research.
The Brexit factor is a biggie. But like I said in my OP, I recognise that Scotland voted to remain. I also like the idea of being in a place which has a lot of international/European people living there.
Maybe someone who lives in Scotland can confirm whether the issues that we are constantly being reminded of in England are also equally highlighted and discussed up there.
Canada has its own problems too, I'm sure.
Edit - I realise this post looks exactly like I'm trying to justify and bias one choice over the other but I'm not. I'm just offering an opposing viewpoint for discussion. [Post edited 24 Jul 2023 17:11]
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if you really want a diverse and international place have you thought about london? edinburgh is a small city (and smallness can lead to pockets of social insularity) and only 16% of the population there were not born in the uk. london is far more diverse with 40% born outside the uk. it's about as international as you can get. canadian cities won't be as diverse as london. in terms of brexit etc. i can't remember the last time i heard anyone in person say anything about it other than bemoaning the practical problems that have arisen. my experience is that it's now something people only talk about online and not in person. if you are in a social group who are really fixated by brexit that's probably unusual now and you may just need a fresh start with new people even if it's still in the uk. it does feel as if your push factors are pretty specifically your current social set up rather than necessarily geography. go to london, meet new people, see if you still feel the same. it doesn't need to be a huge move / decision in the first instance. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 08:46 - Jul 25 with 1257 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 08:28 - Jul 25 by lowhouseblue |
if you really want a diverse and international place have you thought about london? edinburgh is a small city (and smallness can lead to pockets of social insularity) and only 16% of the population there were not born in the uk. london is far more diverse with 40% born outside the uk. it's about as international as you can get. canadian cities won't be as diverse as london. in terms of brexit etc. i can't remember the last time i heard anyone in person say anything about it other than bemoaning the practical problems that have arisen. my experience is that it's now something people only talk about online and not in person. if you are in a social group who are really fixated by brexit that's probably unusual now and you may just need a fresh start with new people even if it's still in the uk. it does feel as if your push factors are pretty specifically your current social set up rather than necessarily geography. go to london, meet new people, see if you still feel the same. it doesn't need to be a huge move / decision in the first instance. |
Yes, that famously insular, non-diverse City of Vancouver would be a terrible option...
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/metro-vancouver-visible-minority-population-resi | | | |
| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 08:48 - Jul 25 with 1240 views | Herbivore |
And of course for a young person, moving to London, one of the most expensive cities in the world, will be a breeze I'm sure. | |
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| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 08:51 - Jul 25 with 1226 views | DJR |
| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 08:28 - Jul 25 by lowhouseblue |
if you really want a diverse and international place have you thought about london? edinburgh is a small city (and smallness can lead to pockets of social insularity) and only 16% of the population there were not born in the uk. london is far more diverse with 40% born outside the uk. it's about as international as you can get. canadian cities won't be as diverse as london. in terms of brexit etc. i can't remember the last time i heard anyone in person say anything about it other than bemoaning the practical problems that have arisen. my experience is that it's now something people only talk about online and not in person. if you are in a social group who are really fixated by brexit that's probably unusual now and you may just need a fresh start with new people even if it's still in the uk. it does feel as if your push factors are pretty specifically your current social set up rather than necessarily geography. go to london, meet new people, see if you still feel the same. it doesn't need to be a huge move / decision in the first instance. |
Unless you have friends there, work in a sociable occupation or are fairly outgoing, London can be a bit isolating. [Post edited 25 Jul 2023 8:55]
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| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 08:57 - Jul 25 with 1199 views | lowhouseblue |
ok so vancouver definitely competes with london in terms of international diversity. that's very good. i was just suggesting there might be easier options. you can reinvent yourself socially without moving to vancouver. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 09:01 - Jul 25 with 1186 views | WeWereZombies |
| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 08:51 - Jul 25 by DJR |
Unless you have friends there, work in a sociable occupation or are fairly outgoing, London can be a bit isolating. [Post edited 25 Jul 2023 8:55]
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Which might be why half of London decamps to Edinburgh in August for the Fringe...
Following up on ArnoldMoorhen's point about the diversity of Vancouver (I certainly felt that the Pacific Rim vibe was very strong the one time I visited six years ago, also true of Auckland in New Zealand) I spent a few weeks working in Toronto back in the Eighties and even then the ethnic mix was striking. Part of the reason for this stems from Idi Amin's expulsion of Asians from Uganda in the previous decade. Whilst the United Kingdom dithered about whether to honour their passport rights those charming Canadians snuck in and hoovered up many of the best qualified. | |
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| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 09:02 - Jul 25 with 1177 views | lowhouseblue |
| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 08:48 - Jul 25 by Herbivore |
And of course for a young person, moving to London, one of the most expensive cities in the world, will be a breeze I'm sure. |
and vancouver is famous for being a cheap place to live? really? | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Canada or Edinburgh - decision time on 09:04 - Jul 25 with 1159 views | Keno |
Can't you split the difference and go to Iceland? |  |
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