| Banter or Hate? 09:09 - Jul 12 with 11102 views | CovJet |
Dear Ipswich Town supporters,
I’m a Wolves fan — coming in peace and hoping you can help me out…
But before I continue, let me congratulate you on an amazing season. I’m sure the Canaries are a tad nervous!
I’m a senior Lecturer at Birmingham City University, writing academic papers as part of my PhD portfolio (Koln University). My research has a focus on the language used by football fans at games — for some people it’s ‘banter’ and for others, it has become a ‘hate crime’. It is a complex, emotive issue.
I want to find out what you think of the language used — I want you to be honest.
The questionnaire is entirely voluntary and completely anonymous. I will only use the data I obtain for academic papers and once complete I will share the data with you on this forum. I have ethical approval granted from Koln University and approval from your administrator for this forum.
I will be comparing your answers with those from supporters of Arsenal, Watford, Wolves, Plymouth and Newcastle.
The questionnaire should only take you a couple of minutes and I would like to thank you in advance. Here is the link:
https://questionpro.com/t/AX3LcZyJou
Kind regards,
Peter Evans
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| Banter or Hate? on 10:18 - Jul 12 with 1734 views | Leaky |
| Banter or Hate? on 09:48 - Jul 12 by Cheltenham_Blue |
Carol Vorderman thinks you shouldn't even get a job. |
She would be happy for me to rock up at her house if her heating broke down in the middle of winter ! |  | | |
| Banter or Hate? on 10:20 - Jul 12 with 1732 views | SitfcB |
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| Banter or Hate? on 10:25 - Jul 12 with 1715 views | jayessess |
| Banter or Hate? on 10:15 - Jul 12 by Swansea_Blue |
I kind of hit the rails as the response I'd have picked isn't there. They are probably homophobic chants (if you aimed similar chants about stereotypes at black people, it would undoubtedly be considered racist), but I think people should be warned and given a change to reflect and change their behaviour. We're becoming an increasingly punitive society and I'm not convinced that leads to positive outcomes.
But then I suppose we need to be tough on racism and homophobia, so I don't know where that leaves me (except confused). |
That's more or less where I landed. I think all the mentioned chants are obviously homophobic but that police action usually impractical and inappropriate in most instances.
(Guess CovJet will have to re-write their methodology section now our discussion will have messed with their data collection!) |  |
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| Banter or Hate? on 10:28 - Jul 12 with 1713 views | Guthrum |
My thoughts are that some of the suggested responses are a little blunt. Rather than simply ignoring homophobic abuse as "banter" or excluding fans who do it, would be better to educate beforehand, thus preventing the problem from happening at all.
People learn to be homophobic/racist, therefore it can also be unlearnt and it is better to do that before it gets to the stage of public abuse.
I mean by a process of social pressure (from other fans) and acclimatisation (removing any sense of "otherness"). Stadium announcements are, IMO, only useful for covering the club's responsibilities. Rarely listened to and more likely to provoke bad behaviour from those doing it primarily for the transgressive thrill. |  |
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| Banter or Hate? on 10:30 - Jul 12 with 1709 views | Blueschev |
| Banter or Hate? on 10:18 - Jul 12 by Leaky |
She would be happy for me to rock up at her house if her heating broke down in the middle of winter ! |
With a name like Leaky I'm not so sure she would. |  | | |
| Banter or Hate? on 10:37 - Jul 12 with 1684 views | Leaky |
| Banter or Hate? on 10:30 - Jul 12 by Blueschev |
With a name like Leaky I'm not so sure she would. |
Arh that name is more to do with my prostate than my professional capabilities. Although giving the bog seat a clean after I've left may be a consideration. | | | |
| Banter or Hate? on 11:22 - Jul 12 with 1627 views | blueasfook |
| Banter or Hate? on 09:55 - Jul 12 by Blueschev |
What about if you got your degree from the University of Life? |
Holds more weight than Suffolk College I suppose. |  |
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| Banter or Hate? on 11:24 - Jul 12 with 1631 views | blueasfook |
| Banter or Hate? on 10:09 - Jul 12 by Dyland |
As a middle aged sometime snowflake sometime gammon English honky (that may be offensive, sorry Philav) I find it hard to decide. "We can see you holding hands" always seemed pretty innocuous and jocular, to ME (key point here). But that was thirty years ago, and I would never sing it now, nor have I heard it sang at PR in yonks. I'd still not call it a hate crime though... and I guess context and tone plays a part in what actions should be taken against people singing that, and other potentially offensive chants.
Nuanced, innit? |
Last time I heard it was when we played Brighton, probably about 10 years ago I would think.
There was "We can see you holding hands" and "Does your boyfriend know you're here?" sang unanamously from the North Stand. | |
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| Banter or Hate? on 11:27 - Jul 12 with 1629 views | BigCommon |
Its all banter....
The problems lie when some people cant laugh at themselves now and then....
To call anything and everything a hate crime these days, is just distorting reality... |  | | |
| Banter or Hate? on 11:33 - Jul 12 with 1615 views | Dyland |
| Banter or Hate? on 11:24 - Jul 12 by blueasfook |
Last time I heard it was when we played Brighton, probably about 10 years ago I would think.
There was "We can see you holding hands" and "Does your boyfriend know you're here?" sang unanamously from the North Stand. |
I genuinely don't remember that. I was definitely there. It was probably the people near me, not me ;)
Seriously though, I would not have joined in, but wouldn't have been offended. I may have sniggered. And yes I understand that isn't a good look either.
Deserving of prosecution? I don't see it. Agree with Swanners and Guthers on this thread and matter. And I always accept my societal views may not be the norm, may be outdated, etc. |  |
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| Banter or Hate? on 11:34 - Jul 12 with 1610 views | Cotty |
You're a senior lecturer but don't have a PhD? Eh?! |  | | |
| Banter or Hate? on 11:43 - Jul 12 with 1604 views | Guthrum |
| Banter or Hate? on 11:27 - Jul 12 by BigCommon |
Its all banter....
The problems lie when some people cant laugh at themselves now and then....
To call anything and everything a hate crime these days, is just distorting reality... |
The problem with that is you are forcing people to laugh at parts of themselves they cannot help (sexuality, skin colour), or face alienation. That's not really fair.
On the other hand, where people are using tropes which they were taught to think humorous rather than with the conscious intention to hurt*, coming down with the full weight of the law is, perhaps, excessive and education/social pressure a better and more productive response. Kill off abuse by making it unacceptable and a weird thing to do, not by locking people up.
* "I can see you holding hands" while potentially hurtful, is quite mild. A monkey impression is dehumanising and definitely intended to harm. | |
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| Context and tone though innit on 11:46 - Jul 12 with 1592 views | Dyland |
| Banter or Hate? on 11:27 - Jul 12 by BigCommon |
Its all banter....
The problems lie when some people cant laugh at themselves now and then....
To call anything and everything a hate crime these days, is just distorting reality... |
You are quite right, but only in certain circumstances. It's a pretty sweeping assertion you've made there. | |
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| Banter or Hate? on 11:56 - Jul 12 with 1574 views | BigCommon |
| Banter or Hate? on 11:43 - Jul 12 by Guthrum |
The problem with that is you are forcing people to laugh at parts of themselves they cannot help (sexuality, skin colour), or face alienation. That's not really fair.
On the other hand, where people are using tropes which they were taught to think humorous rather than with the conscious intention to hurt*, coming down with the full weight of the law is, perhaps, excessive and education/social pressure a better and more productive response. Kill off abuse by making it unacceptable and a weird thing to do, not by locking people up.
* "I can see you holding hands" while potentially hurtful, is quite mild. A monkey impression is dehumanising and definitely intended to harm. |
Totally agree on the monkey chanting. But that wasn't on the survey... | | | |
| Banter or Hate? on 12:06 - Jul 12 with 1552 views | Guthrum |
| Banter or Hate? on 11:56 - Jul 12 by BigCommon |
Totally agree on the monkey chanting. But that wasn't on the survey... |
No, it was just my contrasting example of something (IMO) at the far more serious end of the scale and which is worthy of a law enforcement response.
Whereas the holding hands jibe is more directed at those who might be upset over being thought gay, probably by those who think the same way, or just come from an environment where casual homphobia (it's still presenting gayness as a bad thing) is considered funny. | |
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| Banter or Hate? on 12:23 - Jul 12 with 1541 views | BigCommon |
| Banter or Hate? on 12:06 - Jul 12 by Guthrum |
No, it was just my contrasting example of something (IMO) at the far more serious end of the scale and which is worthy of a law enforcement response.
Whereas the holding hands jibe is more directed at those who might be upset over being thought gay, probably by those who think the same way, or just come from an environment where casual homphobia (it's still presenting gayness as a bad thing) is considered funny. |
I totally understand your thinking...But I find it very extreme.. If we are going to live in a tolerant society, in terms of gender equality. Then the "hetro-phobes" are going to have to find some compromise, too, imo.... Then we can all, harmlessly and inoffensively ,laugh at each other, and ourselves, and get on with life..
Imo, just my opinion. Racism is a completely different subject. | | | |
| Banter or Hate? on 12:24 - Jul 12 with 1535 views | Churchman |
Done. I think it raises interesting questions.
Anyway, good luck to your lot for the new season. |  | | |
| Banter or Hate? on 12:29 - Jul 12 with 1523 views | tractor_lady |
Done and good luck with the research | | | |
| Banter or Hate? on 12:32 - Jul 12 with 1519 views | jayessess |
| Banter or Hate? on 12:23 - Jul 12 by BigCommon |
I totally understand your thinking...But I find it very extreme.. If we are going to live in a tolerant society, in terms of gender equality. Then the "hetro-phobes" are going to have to find some compromise, too, imo.... Then we can all, harmlessly and inoffensively ,laugh at each other, and ourselves, and get on with life..
Imo, just my opinion. Racism is a completely different subject. |
The joke in "holding hands" is broadly that people should be ashamed of their sexuality, isn't it? | |
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| Banter or Hate? on 12:33 - Jul 12 with 1520 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Banter or Hate? on 11:34 - Jul 12 by Cotty |
You're a senior lecturer but don't have a PhD? Eh?! |
You don’t need a PhD to be a senior lecturer. Just some management responsibilities.
I was an SL for years before I got my PhD |  |
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| Banter or Hate? on 12:38 - Jul 12 with 1505 views | jayessess |
| Banter or Hate? on 12:33 - Jul 12 by Cheltenham_Blue |
You don’t need a PhD to be a senior lecturer. Just some management responsibilities.
I was an SL for years before I got my PhD |
Increasingly rare though. Virtually impossible to get a first academic post without one in most fields. | |
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| Banter or Hate? on 12:41 - Jul 12 with 1490 views | BigCommon |
| Banter or Hate? on 12:32 - Jul 12 by jayessess |
The joke in "holding hands" is broadly that people should be ashamed of their sexuality, isn't it? |
Feeling ashamed of yourself, comes from within.. Not because some random whose had a few beers sings a chant... | | | |
| Banter or Hate? on 12:47 - Jul 12 with 1469 views | BigCommon |
Herbivore, see you've down voted me twice for my opinions....
Is that classed as "vote shaming"..?
I can tolerate that. I won't downvote you for your opinions or attempt to "cancel" you with the ignore feature.. | | | |
| Banter or Hate? on 12:54 - Jul 12 with 1451 views | jayessess |
| Banter or Hate? on 12:41 - Jul 12 by BigCommon |
Feeling ashamed of yourself, comes from within.. Not because some random whose had a few beers sings a chant... |
A logic that would also merrily justify pretty much any homophobia (as well as any racism and sexism).
Not really true either, you can be stigmatised and shamed by others, regardless of how you feel about yourself. | |
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