| Contracted departures 09:50 - Mar 25 with 3112 views | clive_baker |
What are we thinking in the summer? Obviously question marks over some of the out of contract players, namely Jackson, Norwood, Aluko & Carroll. Aluko & Jackson to be given another year? I can't imagine there's any way back for Holy or Kenlock, and rightly so.
Can anyone see any departures outside of this group? I wouldn't be surprised if Hladky went in search of 1st team football, and perhaps Harper too as it doesn't appear to be working out for him. Pigott is another. They'll all depend on there being interest of course but I think someone would take a punt on Pigott off that back of his Wimbledon exploits. Wages might be a challenge though. |  |
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| Contracted departures on 11:42 - Mar 25 with 936 views | Wallingford_Boy |
| Contracted departures on 11:08 - Mar 25 by clive_baker |
Fair enough. Think Norwood is quite good friends with Matty Taylor too who plays for Oxford, they were at FGR together. Person who told me was with Norwood relatively recently so perhaps something in it. As I say, you would think it'll depend on league status, I wouldn't be rushing out to sign Norwood if you're Championship bound. |
That'd be nice, I could go for beers with him. |  |
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| Contracted departures on 11:43 - Mar 25 with 937 views | clive_baker |
| Contracted departures on 11:34 - Mar 25 by ArnieM |
What would you prefer for us next season. Automatic promotion, or via the PO’s?
Don’t think my old ticker could take another Wembley appearance lol ! |
It's a hard one, I would love to see us romp the league with 100 points, but the opprtunity to go to Wembley would be cool. We're one of an increasingly small group of English clubs never to have been to the new Wembley, which is depressing. It's not like we'll put that right in the FA or League Cup any time soon, and the Pizza Trophy isn't worth the effort. [Post edited 25 Mar 2022 11:54]
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| Contracted departures on 11:48 - Mar 25 with 919 views | PhilTWTD |
| Contracted departures on 10:21 - Mar 25 by itfcjoe |
Where has this talk come from? I can't imagine it to be the case |
Indeed, I don't get the impression it's going to be a particular priority but I don't believe there's any suggestion it would be closed completely. |  | | |
| Contracted departures on 11:53 - Mar 25 with 893 views | hype313 |
| Contracted departures on 11:43 - Mar 25 by clive_baker |
It's a hard one, I would love to see us romp the league with 100 points, but the opprtunity to go to Wembley would be cool. We're one of an increasingly small group of English clubs never to have been to the new Wembley, which is depressing. It's not like we'll put that right in the FA or League Cup any time soon, and the Pizza Trophy isn't worth the effort. [Post edited 25 Mar 2022 11:54]
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Head says romp the league to give us ample time to sort out the squad for the new season, heart says a day out at Wembley. |  |
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| Contracted departures on 11:53 - Mar 25 with 892 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Contracted departures on 11:48 - Mar 25 by PhilTWTD |
Indeed, I don't get the impression it's going to be a particular priority but I don't believe there's any suggestion it would be closed completely. |
That's pretty much the question I was asking really.
If we followed the Brentford model which is what was being discussed. Would that basically be all levels under 16. Then a B side that holds players 17 to 23. Or do you scrap all levels under 16 and just have a B side and buy players into it? |  |
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| Contracted departures on 11:57 - Mar 25 with 883 views | hype313 |
| Contracted departures on 11:53 - Mar 25 by FrimleyBlue |
That's pretty much the question I was asking really.
If we followed the Brentford model which is what was being discussed. Would that basically be all levels under 16. Then a B side that holds players 17 to 23. Or do you scrap all levels under 16 and just have a B side and buy players into it? |
The Brentford model is quite unique though, they decided that trying to compete with the likes of Palace, QPR, Fulham, Chelsea was futile and I can see their point.
Where we differ is that we have a vast pool to choose from without much competition in the area.
Having said that, academies are expensive, time consuming and you have to be quite fortunate to keep a rolling conveyor belt of talent coming through, so you can start to see why clubs might look at things differently.
Obviously in an ideal world we would have a large majority of first teamers from the youth, but that is really a pipe dream these days. | |
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| Contracted departures on 12:08 - Mar 25 with 870 views | PhilTWTD |
| Contracted departures on 11:53 - Mar 25 by FrimleyBlue |
That's pretty much the question I was asking really.
If we followed the Brentford model which is what was being discussed. Would that basically be all levels under 16. Then a B side that holds players 17 to 23. Or do you scrap all levels under 16 and just have a B side and buy players into it? |
I don't think there's any serious likelihood of that happening. As I understand it, they scrapped their academy and just get players into an U23s type set-up after they've been released by other clubs.
They're in a very different situation to us in that they've got so many bigger clubs around them so the talent they can pick up is limited. We're the only club in Suffolk and the nearest of a decent size close to North Essex and Cambridgeshire. | | | |
| Contracted departures on 12:10 - Mar 25 with 866 views | clive_baker |
| Contracted departures on 11:57 - Mar 25 by hype313 |
The Brentford model is quite unique though, they decided that trying to compete with the likes of Palace, QPR, Fulham, Chelsea was futile and I can see their point.
Where we differ is that we have a vast pool to choose from without much competition in the area.
Having said that, academies are expensive, time consuming and you have to be quite fortunate to keep a rolling conveyor belt of talent coming through, so you can start to see why clubs might look at things differently.
Obviously in an ideal world we would have a large majority of first teamers from the youth, but that is really a pipe dream these days. |
Quite. Brentford closed their academy because they had Chelsea & Fulham on their doorstep nicking their best players and stock piling, then at 16 - 19 Chelsea were binning a lot of them off. Brentford came to the conclusion that it wasn't cost effective to run an academy costing £2m+ a year, largely to house 2nd rate players between the ages of 8 - 16. They might as well let Chelsea develop them all and have the cost of doing so, and pick up the best of the rest that Chelsea binned off at 16 - 19, investing instead in those that are much closer in age to 1st team football.
That allowed Brentford to invest that £2m a year signing talented players from abroad, with their 'moneyball' analytical approach which was an absolute core competence of their owner Matthew Benham and his business interests.
It's a little more neuanced than that, and not just Chelsea they were competing with, but Spurs, Arsenal and other top academies in close proximity. But that's the crux of it. It was a large part circumstantial for Brentford, and not necessarily applicable to other clubs like us. That said, the less quality players we're producing into the 1st team, or rather giving the pathway into the first team, the less compelling the case is for the academy. We need Simpson to rip it up and Woolfenden to continue to thrive, there's no business case as compelling as demonstrable senior players with a decent market value. | |
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| Contracted departures on 12:36 - Mar 25 with 818 views | Fixed_It |
| Contracted departures on 11:53 - Mar 25 by hype313 |
Head says romp the league to give us ample time to sort out the squad for the new season, heart says a day out at Wembley. |
Romp the league and have plenty of time for the new pitch to be sorted... #thebiggerpicture |  |
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| Contracted departures on 12:45 - Mar 25 with 797 views | Beckets |
| Contracted departures on 11:35 - Mar 25 by itfcsuth |
We only need a small amount of business to be done in comparison to last year.
Aluko, Jackson & Carroll will get deals I believe.
Holy, Kenlock, Norwood will go.
Celina, Thompson, Bakinson, Bonne will go back to their respective clubs - I think we will see them all try to be recruited again in the summer exc. Bonne.
Pigott, Harper & Edwards I think would be front runners for contracted departures. |
The reduced business in the summer has been helped by us managing to dispose of Nolan, Nsiala and Fraser permanently in January. Clearly Holy and Kenlock are on loan, never to come back, to which I’d add Clements. I’d be astonished if the option on Norwood was taken up.
You’d assume the option would be taken up on Aluko and Jackson offered something he provides back up all along the front 3. Therefore a useful squad player when you’re wanting to work with outfield numbers in the low 20s. Personally I wouldn’t offer Carroll anything as he doesn’t fit the high temp play McKenna likes. [Post edited 25 Mar 2022 12:46]
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| Contracted departures on 13:28 - Mar 25 with 736 views | ArnieM |
| Contracted departures on 11:43 - Mar 25 by clive_baker |
It's a hard one, I would love to see us romp the league with 100 points, but the opprtunity to go to Wembley would be cool. We're one of an increasingly small group of English clubs never to have been to the new Wembley, which is depressing. It's not like we'll put that right in the FA or League Cup any time soon, and the Pizza Trophy isn't worth the effort. [Post edited 25 Mar 2022 11:54]
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I’d prefer romp the league and be promoted with 4 games to spare…then we can party 🥳…the PO’ s are a complete lottery and not often does the better team get promoted, such is the impact of the psychology often involved in either just missing out on automatic promotion , or nicking in at 6th at the death. Never more demonstrated than us losing out to West Ham. I think we were something like 12 points ahead of them all season. The6 nick the last PO on the last day and go on to beat us in POs…tossas! |  |
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| Contracted departures on 13:30 - Mar 25 with 734 views | tractorboy1978 |
When Wigan go up, I hope they don't try and sign Morsy. It's a horrible thought that's been running through my head recently. |  | | |
| Contracted departures on 13:40 - Mar 25 with 705 views | PhilTWTD |
| Contracted departures on 12:10 - Mar 25 by clive_baker |
Quite. Brentford closed their academy because they had Chelsea & Fulham on their doorstep nicking their best players and stock piling, then at 16 - 19 Chelsea were binning a lot of them off. Brentford came to the conclusion that it wasn't cost effective to run an academy costing £2m+ a year, largely to house 2nd rate players between the ages of 8 - 16. They might as well let Chelsea develop them all and have the cost of doing so, and pick up the best of the rest that Chelsea binned off at 16 - 19, investing instead in those that are much closer in age to 1st team football.
That allowed Brentford to invest that £2m a year signing talented players from abroad, with their 'moneyball' analytical approach which was an absolute core competence of their owner Matthew Benham and his business interests.
It's a little more neuanced than that, and not just Chelsea they were competing with, but Spurs, Arsenal and other top academies in close proximity. But that's the crux of it. It was a large part circumstantial for Brentford, and not necessarily applicable to other clubs like us. That said, the less quality players we're producing into the 1st team, or rather giving the pathway into the first team, the less compelling the case is for the academy. We need Simpson to rip it up and Woolfenden to continue to thrive, there's no business case as compelling as demonstrable senior players with a decent market value. |
Last summer we sold Downes and Dozzell, both of whom are doing well in the division above. On top of that we allowed Liam Gibbs to move on for not a lot and he's been on the bench at a Premier League club and another player we released, Ben Folami, made his full international debut this week, so the academy hasn't been doing too badly over the last few seasons. A shame Tristan's career couldn't flourish as expected and that we lost the likes of Ben Knight to bigger clubs. | | | |
| Contracted departures on 13:42 - Mar 25 with 693 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Contracted departures on 13:40 - Mar 25 by PhilTWTD |
Last summer we sold Downes and Dozzell, both of whom are doing well in the division above. On top of that we allowed Liam Gibbs to move on for not a lot and he's been on the bench at a Premier League club and another player we released, Ben Folami, made his full international debut this week, so the academy hasn't been doing too badly over the last few seasons. A shame Tristan's career couldn't flourish as expected and that we lost the likes of Ben Knight to bigger clubs. |
Financially though, how much have we made in player trading against the costs of running the academy... | |
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| Contracted departures on 14:10 - Mar 25 with 660 views | clive_baker |
| Contracted departures on 13:40 - Mar 25 by PhilTWTD |
Last summer we sold Downes and Dozzell, both of whom are doing well in the division above. On top of that we allowed Liam Gibbs to move on for not a lot and he's been on the bench at a Premier League club and another player we released, Ben Folami, made his full international debut this week, so the academy hasn't been doing too badly over the last few seasons. A shame Tristan's career couldn't flourish as expected and that we lost the likes of Ben Knight to bigger clubs. |
It's not terrible by any means, and I guess those 2 brought in a few million? Plus some compensation for some of the younger lads nabbed by bigger clubs. It's OK, but over the last decade I doubt it balances the books.
I'm all for the academy don't get me wrong, I'm passionate about it and I think it's importance spans way beyond the finances, it's a vital part of the links to the community. Historically it definitely paid for itself with Wright, Dyer, Titus, Scowie, Bent, Ambrose and more recently Wickham, and to a lesser extent Rhodes. Would be nice to see a couple of that ilk break through into the senior team for sure. [Post edited 25 Mar 2022 14:30]
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| Contracted departures on 14:29 - Mar 25 with 641 views | itfcsuth |
| Contracted departures on 11:04 - Mar 25 by Kieran_Knows |
If it were me;
Holy - release
Pigott - try and move on
Norwood - release
Jackson - release
Carroll - release
Burgess - try and move on
Now I know people will go 'OmG Y Wud U GeT RYd Of JAksUN 4?!?!?!?!', just feel with McKenna's connections now, he could bring us in a better quality striker than him (or 2).
I think Bakinson will sign permanently, I'd take Bonne if the fee was relatively low and I'd be going all out to get Celina back on loan, or permanently next season. I'd also take Thompson on a permanent deal as well. Give Aluko another year also.
That leaving us with looking at another centre back, centre mid and possibly 2 strikers. [Post edited 25 Mar 2022 11:05]
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I am surprised you have said move Burgess and Jackson on.
I'm not suggesting they will be regulars, Jackson has thrived under KM in a short period of time. Burgess spent so long not playing a minute and came in a fitted into the system so well. Players like that who can sit on the bench week in week out and come in when called upon and fit in so well are invaluable.
I'm not saying I would have Jackson as the leading no.9, I would still bring in 2 more strikers, but I would have him in the collection as he is the one who seems to fit KM style the best. |  | | |
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