| Insulate Britain - wow 14:23 - Oct 4 with 15510 views | galacticoblue |
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| Insulate Britain - wow on 11:20 - Oct 5 with 1887 views | Ryorry |
Can't currently sit up long enough to reply to every post as I'd like to, so I'll just summarise:-
Basically, these protests aren't working - in fact they're doing the opposite.
Preventing the young woman in her electrically powered car from following her mother being rushed to hospital in an ambulance is guaranteed to alienate many who were previously fence-sitters the movement needed to get on side.
Roger Hallam (founder of XR) saying he wouldn't care if people died in the backs of ambulances because of the protests gives tory politicians the justification they want for dismissing the protestors as 'loons'.
And don't give me the "all publicity is good" cliche, because the only things being discussed as a result of the protests are emergency ambulances & distressed relatives being held up; ppl not getting to hosp appts; doctors, dentists, nurses, other key workers not getting to their stations etc. As evidenced on this thread - in 5pp currently, only *1* (one) post + a reply to it actually directly talking about insulating homes. |  |
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| Insulate Britain - wow on 11:27 - Oct 5 with 1845 views | marchy |
| Insulate Britain - wow on 11:20 - Oct 5 by Ryorry |
Can't currently sit up long enough to reply to every post as I'd like to, so I'll just summarise:-
Basically, these protests aren't working - in fact they're doing the opposite.
Preventing the young woman in her electrically powered car from following her mother being rushed to hospital in an ambulance is guaranteed to alienate many who were previously fence-sitters the movement needed to get on side.
Roger Hallam (founder of XR) saying he wouldn't care if people died in the backs of ambulances because of the protests gives tory politicians the justification they want for dismissing the protestors as 'loons'.
And don't give me the "all publicity is good" cliche, because the only things being discussed as a result of the protests are emergency ambulances & distressed relatives being held up; ppl not getting to hosp appts; doctors, dentists, nurses, other key workers not getting to their stations etc. As evidenced on this thread - in 5pp currently, only *1* (one) post + a reply to it actually directly talking about insulating homes. |
Meantime, how much are we hearing about the protests causing disruption to the supply of the evil emission-heavy boilers causing the specific problem they're trying to combat, or to the day-to-day activities of the policymakers? None. | | | |
| Insulate Britain - wow on 11:35 - Oct 5 with 1818 views | EdwardStone |
| Insulate Britain - wow on 11:08 - Oct 5 by leitrimblue |
Dry line it from the inside surely? |
Maybe
But if your house already has small rooms, then a decent amount of insulation will make rooms even tinier |  | | |
| Insulate Britain - wow on 11:58 - Oct 5 with 1776 views | leitrimblue |
| Insulate Britain - wow on 11:35 - Oct 5 by EdwardStone |
Maybe
But if your house already has small rooms, then a decent amount of insulation will make rooms even tinier |
Guess it depends on whether yer issues are dampness, cold or lack of space |  | | |
| Insulate Britain - wow on 12:11 - Oct 5 with 1744 views | EdwardStone |
| Insulate Britain - wow on 11:58 - Oct 5 by leitrimblue |
Guess it depends on whether yer issues are dampness, cold or lack of space |
In a lot of small old houses it is all three
Not an easy problem to solve
But always pick the low hanging fruit first.....massively improve the loft insulation, insulate underfloor void and look to replace doors/windows and then think about wall insulation later would be my strategy | | | |
| "Everybody agrees with you" on 12:28 - Oct 5 with 1716 views | unstableblue |
Every sympathy for the daughter trying to get mother to hospital.
But just to pick up one point she makes - if everyone agrees with you why have we allowed as a voting public to keep a government in place that in its tenure has had 3 disastrous attempts at getting our housing stock more efficient, and has just failed again:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/mar/27/uk-government-scraps-green-h
This is the lowest hanging fruit to reduce carbon emissions in this country, it is also a way to stimulate the economy... 'build back better'
No one is 'doing anything about it'... that's why these guys are going to these extremes!!
The great British public are just sitting their like lemons as we lurch from one feck up to the other, whilst sleaze is paraded in front of us (PPE contracts, Pandora).. and worse we just stick our fingers in our ears on the environmental emergency (it is not just carbon)..
Nearly 20% of our CO2 comes from home heating, its significantly more than road transport... its much easier to sort than most other outputs..... sort it out, now |  |
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| Insulate Britain - wow on 12:33 - Oct 5 with 1697 views | J2BLUE |
| Insulate Britain - wow on 22:56 - Oct 4 by GlasgowBlue |
The founder of XR seems to endorse their tactics.
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No problem.
Just expect to be violently removed. Then maybe we'll block the anbulance when it comes for him. |  |
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| Insulate Britain - wow on 12:36 - Oct 5 with 1683 views | J2BLUE |
| Insulate Britain - wow on 19:09 - Oct 4 by yesjohn99 |
Cosmic. So you’ve had all your fun but now we’re not allowed to have ours.
Thanks. |
Did you miss this lagos? | |
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| Insulate Britain - wow on 12:39 - Oct 5 with 1665 views | bluelagos |
| Insulate Britain - wow on 12:36 - Oct 5 by J2BLUE |
Did you miss this lagos? |
I did as it goes.
Not sure I understand the point tbh.
Have stated more than once my thoughts on flights, that we should have a progressive tax of £100 on the first one each year, then a £1000, then £10k.
That way every one would get to have a holiday but we deter people from the multiple trips - e.g. The weekender to Dublin or whatever. |  |
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| Insulate Britain - wow on 12:51 - Oct 5 with 1615 views | leitrimblue |
| Insulate Britain - wow on 12:39 - Oct 5 by bluelagos |
I did as it goes.
Not sure I understand the point tbh.
Have stated more than once my thoughts on flights, that we should have a progressive tax of £100 on the first one each year, then a £1000, then £10k.
That way every one would get to have a holiday but we deter people from the multiple trips - e.g. The weekender to Dublin or whatever. |
They should definitely ban hen/stag party's in other countries. No nation deserves to suffer another nation's drunken hens and stags | | | |
| Insulate Britain - wow on 13:08 - Oct 5 with 1576 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Insulate Britain - wow on 12:11 - Oct 5 by EdwardStone |
In a lot of small old houses it is all three
Not an easy problem to solve
But always pick the low hanging fruit first.....massively improve the loft insulation, insulate underfloor void and look to replace doors/windows and then think about wall insulation later would be my strategy |
Could you have a word with my landlord about all that...still have metal framed single glazed windows for starters. |  |
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| Insulate Britain - wow on 13:09 - Oct 5 with 1571 views | nodge_blue |
| Insulate Britain - wow on 11:11 - Oct 5 by chicoazul |
It “could be” those things, yes. Lots of things could be. But that doesn’t change the point that protests are supposed to be annoying inconvenient and as high profile as possible.
Clearly lots of people in this thread who have never been on a protest March. |
So who gets to say what protests are legitimate and ok?
If the far right protested about the level of immigration across the channel and stopped ambulances is that ok too because they needed to make it as high profile as possible?
No one has the right to think they are bigger than society itself. And society is governed by laws and democratic consensus. And one of those conventional norms / laws is that people can go about their business unhindered.
Protest marches don’t usually cross that line.
It “could be” also is more likely “probably is”. Some carers probably didn’t get to the people they need to care for when the M25 shuts. Don’t give me could be arguments when you want to say climate change probably is human intervention whilst someone else says it could be. You can’t have it both ways. It’s reasonable to apply sensible logic and conclusions. [Post edited 5 Oct 2021 13:11]
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| Insulate Britain - wow on 13:10 - Oct 5 with 1570 views | Durovigutum |
| Insulate Britain - wow on 12:39 - Oct 5 by bluelagos |
I did as it goes.
Not sure I understand the point tbh.
Have stated more than once my thoughts on flights, that we should have a progressive tax of £100 on the first one each year, then a £1000, then £10k.
That way every one would get to have a holiday but we deter people from the multiple trips - e.g. The weekender to Dublin or whatever. |
I have two similar ideas, both which will help with "levelling up" as well.
Every UK citizen receives a "CO2" allowance each year. When you book a flight or buy petrol you spend some of it, depending on what you are doing. When you use up your allocation you must buy more from another citizen of the UK. If you are poor, get the bus to the shops once a week and struggle to pay your bills but travel nowhere then you can make a useful addition to your budget. If you are rich you are constrained by the maximum environmental impact we consider we should make as a nation.
There are obvious flaws, you could fly to Munich then on from there and we couldn't touch the allowance, but you'd hope we'd see some global support to this sort of scheme.
I also think we should use Brexit to completely re-imagine VAT. So instead of a flat tax it changes based on the environmental impact of the purchase. Milk in a glass bottle that is rinsed and returned has x% where a plastic bottle is X+y%. Dog food shipped from China has a travel miles % added which is more than dog food from Corby with minimal miles. Manufactured goods has a % added based on the CO2 output of the country (or countries) of origin.
Again, some obvious flaws when I describe something so simplistically, but I recommend you go read Donut Economics which is what I've based these thoughts on.
I am thinking of writing them up and sending them to the treasury, but I suspect I'd have more luck offering PC my thoughts on team selection.... |  | | |
| Insulate Britain - wow on 13:18 - Oct 5 with 1537 views | bluelagos |
| Insulate Britain - wow on 13:10 - Oct 5 by Durovigutum |
I have two similar ideas, both which will help with "levelling up" as well.
Every UK citizen receives a "CO2" allowance each year. When you book a flight or buy petrol you spend some of it, depending on what you are doing. When you use up your allocation you must buy more from another citizen of the UK. If you are poor, get the bus to the shops once a week and struggle to pay your bills but travel nowhere then you can make a useful addition to your budget. If you are rich you are constrained by the maximum environmental impact we consider we should make as a nation.
There are obvious flaws, you could fly to Munich then on from there and we couldn't touch the allowance, but you'd hope we'd see some global support to this sort of scheme.
I also think we should use Brexit to completely re-imagine VAT. So instead of a flat tax it changes based on the environmental impact of the purchase. Milk in a glass bottle that is rinsed and returned has x% where a plastic bottle is X+y%. Dog food shipped from China has a travel miles % added which is more than dog food from Corby with minimal miles. Manufactured goods has a % added based on the CO2 output of the country (or countries) of origin.
Again, some obvious flaws when I describe something so simplistically, but I recommend you go read Donut Economics which is what I've based these thoughts on.
I am thinking of writing them up and sending them to the treasury, but I suspect I'd have more luck offering PC my thoughts on team selection.... |
Some interesting ideas. One of the issues with how we change habits is whether we do that through pricing or through rationing. Not an expert but I think we need to ensure we don't just penalise the poorest in society.
In German supermarkets, beer is sold in reuseable bottles rather than cans. A deposit is paid and the empty bottles are collected and returned for reuse. Indeed most of West Africa has exactly the same model of deposit, collection and reuse.
Yet go into our supermakets and it's all single use bottles, single use aluminum cans. We could change that tomorrow through legislation. Yet is doesn't happen.
So many examples of things we could do better and so frustrating how little we do. Of course it needs people to take action, but look at carrier bags. It was only when the govt took action that their useage dropped so significantly. Proof that real change is in the hands of our lawmakers. | |
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| Insulate Britain - wow on 13:20 - Oct 5 with 1522 views | monytowbray |
| Insulate Britain - wow on 10:00 - Oct 5 by nodge_blue |
They should all go to China or the USA then if they want to affect real change that could make a difference.
Insulating British homes is such a small drop in the ocean.
But they won't of course because places like China wouldn't tolerate it. And yet their coal powered economy is a huge problem and its still growing.
Sadly their message is well intentioned but mis directed and likely to cause more resentment than approval from the British public.
And how can they morally stop ambulances from getting to hospitals? |
How much stuff in this country was made in China?
Again, it’s a bit like demanding someone bake you a cake then moaning they made a mess in the kitchen.
Lazy and poorly informed take, it needs to get in the bin. It’s a global problem and we individually play a big part.
Gonna say it again, if the environment is the forefront of people’s mindsI hope they are (or moving towards) veganism and less purchasing of new pointless crap for a generally more sustainable lifestyle. |  |
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| Insulate Britain - wow on 13:21 - Oct 5 with 1519 views | J2BLUE |
| Insulate Britain - wow on 13:10 - Oct 5 by Durovigutum |
I have two similar ideas, both which will help with "levelling up" as well.
Every UK citizen receives a "CO2" allowance each year. When you book a flight or buy petrol you spend some of it, depending on what you are doing. When you use up your allocation you must buy more from another citizen of the UK. If you are poor, get the bus to the shops once a week and struggle to pay your bills but travel nowhere then you can make a useful addition to your budget. If you are rich you are constrained by the maximum environmental impact we consider we should make as a nation.
There are obvious flaws, you could fly to Munich then on from there and we couldn't touch the allowance, but you'd hope we'd see some global support to this sort of scheme.
I also think we should use Brexit to completely re-imagine VAT. So instead of a flat tax it changes based on the environmental impact of the purchase. Milk in a glass bottle that is rinsed and returned has x% where a plastic bottle is X+y%. Dog food shipped from China has a travel miles % added which is more than dog food from Corby with minimal miles. Manufactured goods has a % added based on the CO2 output of the country (or countries) of origin.
Again, some obvious flaws when I describe something so simplistically, but I recommend you go read Donut Economics which is what I've based these thoughts on.
I am thinking of writing them up and sending them to the treasury, but I suspect I'd have more luck offering PC my thoughts on team selection.... |
Interesting. So you would need to go a carbon/methane diet in advance of a flight.
I'm trademarking 'No Turkey til Turkey' and 'No Meat til Crete' | |
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| Insulate Britain - wow on 13:24 - Oct 5 with 1493 views | bluelagos |
| Insulate Britain - wow on 13:21 - Oct 5 by J2BLUE |
Interesting. So you would need to go a carbon/methane diet in advance of a flight.
I'm trademarking 'No Turkey til Turkey' and 'No Meat til Crete' |
This time next year Rodney... | |
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| Insulate Britain - wow on 13:24 - Oct 5 with 1484 views | Herbivore |
| Insulate Britain - wow on 13:21 - Oct 5 by J2BLUE |
Interesting. So you would need to go a carbon/methane diet in advance of a flight.
I'm trademarking 'No Turkey til Turkey' and 'No Meat til Crete' |
No bacon til Macon. No pork til New York. |  |
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| Insulate Britain - wow on 13:28 - Oct 5 with 1470 views | EdwardStone |
| Insulate Britain - wow on 13:18 - Oct 5 by bluelagos |
Some interesting ideas. One of the issues with how we change habits is whether we do that through pricing or through rationing. Not an expert but I think we need to ensure we don't just penalise the poorest in society.
In German supermarkets, beer is sold in reuseable bottles rather than cans. A deposit is paid and the empty bottles are collected and returned for reuse. Indeed most of West Africa has exactly the same model of deposit, collection and reuse.
Yet go into our supermakets and it's all single use bottles, single use aluminum cans. We could change that tomorrow through legislation. Yet is doesn't happen.
So many examples of things we could do better and so frustrating how little we do. Of course it needs people to take action, but look at carrier bags. It was only when the govt took action that their useage dropped so significantly. Proof that real change is in the hands of our lawmakers. |
"Proof that real change is in the hands of our Lawmakers"
Well, exactly
They are all guilty.....not just fiddling while Rome burns, but conducting an entire Symphony Orchestra
From any reasonable standpoint, it is clear that Governments past and present don't understand the magnitude of the problems or have any reasonable idea of how to allow society to address these issues | | | |
| Insulate Britain - wow on 13:31 - Oct 5 with 1445 views | bluelagos |
| Insulate Britain - wow on 13:24 - Oct 5 by Herbivore |
No bacon til Macon. No pork til New York. |
In this new world, I fear the tourism sector of Ouagadougou is fcked. | |
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| Insulate Britain - wow on 13:37 - Oct 5 with 1408 views | EdwardStone |
| Insulate Britain - wow on 13:08 - Oct 5 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Could you have a word with my landlord about all that...still have metal framed single glazed windows for starters. |
Nothing quite as cold as an old house with single glazed Crittall windows
Couple that with night storage heaters for a truly chilly evening
Remarkably, Crittall are still in business....I suspect they have improved the thermal efficiency of their products
Maybe you should have a polite conversation with your Landlord.....followed by a slightly more robust one if he hasn't agreed to a sensible upgrade
* looks on eBay for clingfilm and hairdryer* | | | |
| Insulate Britain - wow on 13:37 - Oct 5 with 1402 views | positivity |
| Insulate Britain - wow on 13:31 - Oct 5 by bluelagos |
In this new world, I fear the tourism sector of Ouagadougou is fcked. |
no wagamama before ouagadougou? | |
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| Insulate Britain - wow on 13:40 - Oct 5 with 1382 views | bluelagos |
| Insulate Britain - wow on 13:37 - Oct 5 by positivity |
no wagamama before ouagadougou? |
Don't mean to be harsh. but needs a bit of work. ;-) | |
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| Insulate Britain - wow on 13:45 - Oct 5 with 1360 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Insulate Britain - wow on 11:08 - Oct 5 by leitrimblue |
Dry line it from the inside surely? |
Generally internal wall insulation is more problematic than external.
In winter it prevents the external walls from warming up, potentially leading to more damp due to lower evaporation rates
In summer external insulation prevents the thermal mass of a building heating up too much and reduces overheating compared to uninsulated properties, while IWI will trap in the heat being released from the thermal mass and lead to more overheating than uninsulated properties. This will be a more significant issue in future as we have hotter summers.
External insulation is also better because you wrap the entire building in it, preventing cold bridges, which is almost impossible to do with internal insulation. |  | | |
| Insulate Britain - wow on 13:52 - Oct 5 with 1330 views | nodge_blue |
| Insulate Britain - wow on 10:20 - Oct 5 by Herbivore |
India's emissions per capita are about a quarter of ours. We still aren't doing enough to get to net zero ourselves or to set an example to others. We import so much from China and that is a large contributor to their emissions, what are we doing to address that?
The fact is that individuals in the UK and our government aren't doing enough. We've been educating people on climate change for several decades and it's made relatively little difference. That's why people are protesting, other methods simply haven't made enough of a difference. |
Im not sure without googling when the human race started but I think it was about 300,000 years ago. Which is quite a long times especially as we now measure from only 2000 years ago.
During that time we lived until the last 250 years a fairly simple life. We didnt move about much, we clearly only had a bit of wood or coal as fuel for heating a fire etc. We didnt eat a huge and varied diet. We died young.
When I was born there were 3.5 billion people on the planet. Even in the hugely short period of time that Ive been alive, compared to the human race, we've now gone to about 8 billion. Thats mind blowing isn't it? Im not sure anyone ever checked with mother earth that this was going to be ok.
And in that short period of time we have gone from a fairly small part of the planet having a "western lifestyle" to now a significant part. And the remainder is trying to get there.
Look at the USA. Trump and his followers (which is still roughly half the population), won't give up on their hugely priviiliged, energy / meat consuming lifestyle. China and India are still in the mindset that they are developing nations that must be allowed the carbon head room to catch up with the west for all its billions of people. Brazil is cutting down the rain forests at a huge rate so that its growing meat industry of 200 million cattle can be sustained.
And against this backdrop we need to drastically cut carbon emissions in the next ten years.
Im all for giving it a go, but I think no matter how much lagging I put in my roof or how many people glue themselves to the M25 is going to make much difference. Its with an element of black humour that I look at what we are doing here in the UK to "protest".
How humanly arrogant of us as a race to think that we can take all these resources from the earth and for us to be 8 billion and rising, at no cost.
I could list out what Im trying to do personally as despite what Ive written I do feel this issue hugely, but I won't as its not a sanctimonious look at me issue.
But at the same time this protest mentality or disrupting peoples lives will do nothing in the scale of things. Sorry but there it is. | |
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