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Supporters of anti-immigration policies... on 14:10 - Feb 9 by Swansea_Blue
Immigration isn’t alone in this. The internet was transformational, a combination of local planning failures and online shopping has similarly transformed town centres, government policy has resulted in huge changes to people’s well-being (especially those of the fringes). All bigger influences than immigration.
Bottom line is a lot of people don’t like change and a lot are distrustful of people who are different. Throw in a xenophobic media (and lately government) deliberately stirring the pot and it’s fairly clear why immigration is an issue.
A good indicator that this is a manufactured issue playing on people’s innate prejudices is that there is often less tolerance of foreigners where there are fewer of them.
Agreed. Missed this before I responded similarly.
Immigration is the effect of change more than the cause. But a lot of politicians and the media have tried to profit from pushing people that way.
Pronouns: He/Him
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Supporters of anti-immigration policies... on 15:08 - Feb 9 with 3451 views
Supporters of anti-immigration policies... on 15:00 - Feb 9 by HARRY10
Whereas posting up something that is known and accepted has an intent of justification about it.
Now why not address the fact that any concern felt was caused in part by a government refusing to curb the numbers and concentration.
Ot does that rather pull the rug out from underneath the 'point' ?
I said earlier than making the point he made didn't make other points wrong. Including yours. You're absolutely correct. The point about the media is also a good one and certain newspapers have had a major role in painting immigrants as the problem.
Supporters of anti-immigration policies... on 15:08 - Feb 9 by J2BLUE
I said earlier than making the point he made didn't make other points wrong. Including yours. You're absolutely correct. The point about the media is also a good one and certain newspapers have had a major role in painting immigrants as the problem.
Sorry that was all obvious too wasn't it?
Without examining why we are where we are pretty much guarantees that we don't begin to work towards resolving this.
Whatever the concerns are, brexit is never the answer. And as said I suspect it is a pretty feeble attempt at trying to justify xenophobias,
For my part the question that never gets addressed never mind answered is why are so many UK folk still unemployed and so many EU citizens able to find work.
Could it be that those settled in lets say 'the north' are unable to move to work, as there is not the housing available. This government has maintained a situation where it will pay tens of thousands out in Housing Benefit but not built housing for it's own poulace to take up work elsewhere.
Applying sanctions and 'bullying' the unemployes is not going to provide housing or any incentive to move to where there is work.
Large towns etc in the north came about by encoraging migrant labour to move from other parts of the UK, That work has now gone... mines, mills, shipyards etc. Yet we have numpties claiming that if we close down work elsewhere in the UK it will make things betterr ! ! !
If folk are so dumb so as to vote for those who have caused these problems then how on earth can we hope to improve things ?
The government needs tp provide training for the skills industry needs
It needs to provide housing where those skils are needed
and horror of all horrors for the Tories own up to the fact that they failed repreatedly to implement EU rules that could so easily massively curtailed huge levels of immigration
or beter still and much cheaper filly silly heads with xenophobia instead
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Supporters of anti-immigration policies... on 15:41 - Feb 9 with 3401 views
Supporters of anti-immigration policies... on 15:33 - Feb 9 by HARRY10
Without examining why we are where we are pretty much guarantees that we don't begin to work towards resolving this.
Whatever the concerns are, brexit is never the answer. And as said I suspect it is a pretty feeble attempt at trying to justify xenophobias,
For my part the question that never gets addressed never mind answered is why are so many UK folk still unemployed and so many EU citizens able to find work.
Could it be that those settled in lets say 'the north' are unable to move to work, as there is not the housing available. This government has maintained a situation where it will pay tens of thousands out in Housing Benefit but not built housing for it's own poulace to take up work elsewhere.
Applying sanctions and 'bullying' the unemployes is not going to provide housing or any incentive to move to where there is work.
Large towns etc in the north came about by encoraging migrant labour to move from other parts of the UK, That work has now gone... mines, mills, shipyards etc. Yet we have numpties claiming that if we close down work elsewhere in the UK it will make things betterr ! ! !
If folk are so dumb so as to vote for those who have caused these problems then how on earth can we hope to improve things ?
The government needs tp provide training for the skills industry needs
It needs to provide housing where those skils are needed
and horror of all horrors for the Tories own up to the fact that they failed repreatedly to implement EU rules that could so easily massively curtailed huge levels of immigration
or beter still and much cheaper filly silly heads with xenophobia instead
Award for being the most opinionated member on the board goes to...
“Our slick new attacking side is being outpassed and outmaneuvered by Ipswich” - West Ham Forum
Supporters of anti-immigration policies... on 13:38 - Feb 9 by sparks
You seem not to have actually read what I wrote.
The pace of change has been damaging to people's sense of wellbeing and to social cohesion. Whether we think its reasonable or not- human beings have those feelings and reactions.
Supporters of anti-immigration policies... on 13:01 - Feb 9 by sparks
Probably because the pace of immigration has changed the face of many towns significanlty over a short time, leaving people feeling alienated and disenfranchised in the places they grew up in or are attached to.
We may, logically, be able to reach the view that its not reasonable for the old lady walking through the market town on a Saturday morning to resent the immigrants,. However, I struggle to understand how people are unable to empathise with that on a human level. A place you know, becomes a place that feels very different, very quickly, and where many of the voices you hear are not speaking your language anymore inevitably and naturally creates feelings of fear, isolation and not- belonging.
Excellent point well made sir.
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Supporters of anti-immigration policies... on 16:14 - Feb 9 with 3335 views
Don't for one minute even imagine that any Tory govt will implement draconian immigration rules as the UK economy relies upon immigration. Anyone who thinks brexit is the end of immigration is delusional.
This country is an immigrant country from norsemen, saxons, jutes, romans, Normans to irish, empire subjects to whichever group makes up the latest sizeable influx. My wife and one of my children are immigrants.
Technically our current Prime Minister is an immigrant.
Without it no business premises in London gets cleaned, coffees served or even hospitals staffed.
Supporters of anti-immigration policies... on 16:14 - Feb 9 by Pendejo
Don't for one minute even imagine that any Tory govt will implement draconian immigration rules as the UK economy relies upon immigration. Anyone who thinks brexit is the end of immigration is delusional.
This country is an immigrant country from norsemen, saxons, jutes, romans, Normans to irish, empire subjects to whichever group makes up the latest sizeable influx. My wife and one of my children are immigrants.
Technically our current Prime Minister is an immigrant.
Without it no business premises in London gets cleaned, coffees served or even hospitals staffed.
Lastly it helps keep rental market bouyant.
Great. Get them over here to do all the jobs nobody else will do, pay them peanuts and then charge them a fortune to stay here.
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Supporters of anti-immigration policies... on 16:28 - Feb 9 with 3298 views
Supporters of anti-immigration policies... on 16:14 - Feb 9 by Pendejo
Don't for one minute even imagine that any Tory govt will implement draconian immigration rules as the UK economy relies upon immigration. Anyone who thinks brexit is the end of immigration is delusional.
This country is an immigrant country from norsemen, saxons, jutes, romans, Normans to irish, empire subjects to whichever group makes up the latest sizeable influx. My wife and one of my children are immigrants.
Technically our current Prime Minister is an immigrant.
Without it no business premises in London gets cleaned, coffees served or even hospitals staffed.
Lastly it helps keep rental market bouyant.
But they scare old ladies, what with their strange language and all.
So what to be done ?
Ensure that only those needed are here ? Provide a means to allow more UK folk to access employment ?
Nope, just peddle the same misinformation, that's the answer.
And I would add that we were told that leaving the EU was about socereignty, rules and naughty foreigners stealing our fish - yet it seems it is people speaking in strange tongues that is the cause of the brexit vote
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Supporters of anti-immigration policies... on 16:31 - Feb 9 with 3296 views
Supporters of anti-immigration policies... on 14:04 - Feb 9 by J2BLUE
People need to read what he wrote and think about it, rather than moving the goal posts or adding things in to change the question. He responded to the question asked and made an excellent point. It's all too rare these days to see anyone bother to be balanced. It doesn't mean your points are wrong, just that Sparks makes a great point. It's not all a 'fear of brown people' as so many like to say sneeringly (not you).
i know he made the point of a little old lady . but is it we are told its the little old lady ? i know farage and other extreme right wing groups like to make out thats who the they are thinking of, when they want to share their own views. i never see many old ladies sticking up posters saying its alright to be white. it seems its always someone else who feels an outcast in there own country .
forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows
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Supporters of anti-immigration policies... on 18:44 - Feb 9 with 3256 views
Supporters of anti-immigration policies... on 14:45 - Feb 9 by HARRY10
Nope, they are the same.
To bleat about the level and concentration of immigration requires a response ie what has caused it and what can or should be done.
My response is thattrying to justify a xenophocic reaction will silly stuff does not addrees the problem or people's concerns.
Well no one has 'bleated' so far on this thread and no one has attempted to justify anything.
In fact, there's not even been an anti-immigration post yet.
You cannot jump onto everyone each time they try to introduce an angle on a subject, otherwise it's pointless.
The whole point of discussion is to get to the root of things. Otherwise we may as well just shout at each other.
The majority of the posters on this thread are very pronounced on their anti-racist and xenophobic views so it's not helpful to start to invent attitudes that don't exist here.
This is an interesting thread, with the ability to be an interesting conversation, it also shows how things can be pushed quite quickly from debate to shouting match, which has yet to happen here admittedly.
I think assumptions on other peoples views are prevalent here in parts.
No idea when I began here, was a very long time ago. Previously known as Spirit_of_81. Love cheese, hate the colour of it, this is why it requires some blue in it.
Supporters of anti-immigration policies... on 13:38 - Feb 9 by sparks
You seem not to have actually read what I wrote.
The pace of change has been damaging to people's sense of wellbeing and to social cohesion. Whether we think its reasonable or not- human beings have those feelings and reactions.
heard something interesting the other day on these lines.
Traditionally those who have been happier with the pace of change and more cosmopolitan have moved to big cities where it has always been the way.
Those who have struggled with it have stayed in towns and villages.
it's not always a concious choice but one that just naturally happens
The pace of immigration, since the old Eastern bloc joined the EU, has meant that those in towns and villages have seen immigration like those in cities. Also, a lot of the immigration is people coming to do more menial jobs so you aren't getting people who have good language skills etc and thus integration doesn't happen as much.
Like you said though, completely changes towns almost overnight and not everyone likes that
Supporters of anti-immigration policies... on 16:14 - Feb 9 by Pendejo
Don't for one minute even imagine that any Tory govt will implement draconian immigration rules as the UK economy relies upon immigration. Anyone who thinks brexit is the end of immigration is delusional.
This country is an immigrant country from norsemen, saxons, jutes, romans, Normans to irish, empire subjects to whichever group makes up the latest sizeable influx. My wife and one of my children are immigrants.
Technically our current Prime Minister is an immigrant.
Without it no business premises in London gets cleaned, coffees served or even hospitals staffed.
Lastly it helps keep rental market bouyant.
'Lastly it helps keep rental market bouyant'
Is this tongue in cheek?
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Supporters of anti-immigration policies... on 09:54 - Feb 10 with 3009 views
Supporters of anti-immigration policies... on 08:44 - Feb 10 by itfcjoe
heard something interesting the other day on these lines.
Traditionally those who have been happier with the pace of change and more cosmopolitan have moved to big cities where it has always been the way.
Those who have struggled with it have stayed in towns and villages.
it's not always a concious choice but one that just naturally happens
The pace of immigration, since the old Eastern bloc joined the EU, has meant that those in towns and villages have seen immigration like those in cities. Also, a lot of the immigration is people coming to do more menial jobs so you aren't getting people who have good language skills etc and thus integration doesn't happen as much.
Like you said though, completely changes towns almost overnight and not everyone likes that
This is such a good point
I regularly see comments along the lines of it being people that live in less diverse areas that have the biggest problem with immigration, and criticising them for that, but that compares against places like London and so completely misses the point around immigration being a much newer phenom in those areas
I’d wager most people that stay in towns ultimately do so out of comfort and familiarity, so not hard to see why such change isn’t welcomed with open arms, especially when it turns areas into intimidating spaces for the more vulnerable in society (see Road, Norwich)
Highlighting crass stupidity since sometime around 2010
Supporters of anti-immigration policies... on 16:28 - Feb 9 by HARRY10
But they scare old ladies, what with their strange language and all.
So what to be done ?
Ensure that only those needed are here ? Provide a means to allow more UK folk to access employment ?
Nope, just peddle the same misinformation, that's the answer.
And I would add that we were told that leaving the EU was about socereignty, rules and naughty foreigners stealing our fish - yet it seems it is people speaking in strange tongues that is the cause of the brexit vote
Can't Brexit be more than one reason?
Even if I reflect on the reasons given by three family members I know voted for leave, it is clear that people voted to leave for different reasons.
Let's start with the easy one. My blatantly racist uncle who was obnoxiously loud about his reasons for wanting to leave because it would mean less 'darkies' in town (yes as well as being racist, he's also unbelievably stupid - not that I'm suggesting a correlation between ignorance/idiocy and racism - although I suspect there is one)
Then there's my Dad. A boomer who resents his taxes being spent on 'new roads in Malta' and 'moving parliament between Brussels and Strasbourg monthly at great expense'. He's probably more of the 'life was better in my day, so let's see if we can recapture our glory days as a nation' type of brexit numpty.
Then there's my cousin. 27 years old, very average education, made redundant in 2014 and hadn't worked for two years before the vote. He simply voted because he thought the status quo was rubbish and wanted to vote for a change. He's the one out of the three of them I have most sympathy for and the only one who I think presents a rational argument that I can understand. He also hates his Dad's (my Uncle's) racism and it has caused a big falling out between them since the vote.
It works both ways though. If I take three family members who voted to remain, they each had different reasons: 1) A pro-globalist who works in London and works across Europe 2) A project fear acolyte who thought if the majority of experts were right then it was sensible to remain 3) Someone who has marched against fascism before and who worried that a vote for brexit would see xenophobia legitimised in the eyes of many
As someone who lives in Australia and has recently become a citizen, I'm conflicted about managed migration. Instinctively it feels wrong to me, but what it has succeeded in doing is keeping unemployment down at very low levels for decades. The policy also has it's roots in a White Australian migration policy about 60 years ago that was truly abhorrent.
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Supporters of anti-immigration policies... on 18:58 - Feb 10 with 2901 views
Supporters of anti-immigration policies... on 16:14 - Feb 9 by Pendejo
Don't for one minute even imagine that any Tory govt will implement draconian immigration rules as the UK economy relies upon immigration. Anyone who thinks brexit is the end of immigration is delusional.
This country is an immigrant country from norsemen, saxons, jutes, romans, Normans to irish, empire subjects to whichever group makes up the latest sizeable influx. My wife and one of my children are immigrants.
Technically our current Prime Minister is an immigrant.
Without it no business premises in London gets cleaned, coffees served or even hospitals staffed.
Lastly it helps keep rental market bouyant.
Broadly agree with that and get that your closing sentence is tongue in cheek but you may want to rethink your opening statement:
Global Capitalism supported by the free movement of labour (not people) allowing an even greater extraction of wealth due to suppressed wages is the problem. That people try to fix a broken flush by finding variations on a theme of being screwed is somewhat bewildering.
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
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