| Further austerity then 11:21 - Nov 2 with 6179 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
Tories promise tax cuts if elected.
Mail article so haven't read more than headline or linked it. |  |
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| On a related note ... on 12:54 - Nov 2 with 3134 views | Guthrum |
| On a related note ... on 12:39 - Nov 2 by footers |
Exactly my position, buh. How can we be in a position where we're essentially held ransom by a few at the top? If they want to leave, let them; there'll be plenty of others willing to take their place, make a decent living and give back to society. (I'm not suggesting that these people haven't, by the way, just that to me their patriotism seems a little weak if they're willing to up sticks because they'd be paying more in tax.) |
I'm not knocking the rich as a whole. Having worked in the charity fundraising sector, I've seen how much many, probably most, of the super-wealthy give to good causes.
I just think it hypocritical that having grown up and run their businesses in a stable country with good infrastructure and a decent social safety net, certain of these types are refusing to pay their fair share. Not punitive rates of 80 or 90%, as we have had in the past. This is only 45 or 50% on the income an individual earns over £80k or £125k.
Interestingly, those making the most fuss include people like Mike Ashley, who does not seem to have the best reputation as an employer. |  |
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| Further austerity then on 13:12 - Nov 2 with 3106 views | WD19 |
| Further austerity then on 12:45 - Nov 2 by Guthrum |
I strongly suspect the mathematical modelling used to balance and extrapolate the raw data from poll samples is some way out for this current situation.
It isn't a case of "all polling being rubbish", more we are into uncharted territory. No situation like this has come about since the industry really took off, with the major contendors fragmenting over a cross-party issue which also gives a whole new set of motivations to the electorate. There simply isn't the analytical information on how this will play out. Even 2017 was nothing like this.
I think, perhaps, overmuch emphasis is being given to traditional loyalties to Conservative and Labour (which, with the loss of Scotland to the SNP, favours the former). But I don't know. Nobody really does, yet. |
The vote share polling will be remarkably, incredibly, accurate. How that transposes to # seats is anyones guess. |  | | |
| Further austerity then on 14:13 - Nov 2 with 3084 views | sparks |
| Further austerity then on 11:54 - Nov 2 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Difficult to prove cause and effect. I should imagine the link between drug dealing and knife crime is fairly proven and there is surely a link between increased poverty and increased drug usage. It doesn't take a lot to come to the conclusion you have there.
However, somehow it will all be spun as Labour's fault for something they did or didn't do in the 2000s.
I find it so depressing the Tories continue to be so far ahead in opinion polls. |
Its relevant to recoginse that County Lines is a huge driver here- and not obviously connected to cuts as such. |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Further austerity then on 14:48 - Nov 2 with 3063 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Further austerity then on 14:13 - Nov 2 by sparks |
Its relevant to recoginse that County Lines is a huge driver here- and not obviously connected to cuts as such. |
As I said, difficult to prove cause and effect but anecdotally county lines is, at least partially, driven by an increase in poverty. | |
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| Further austerity then on 14:51 - Nov 2 with 3056 views | BlueBadger |
| Further austerity then on 14:48 - Nov 2 by Nthsuffolkblue |
As I said, difficult to prove cause and effect but anecdotally county lines is, at least partially, driven by an increase in poverty. |
Not just that, cuts to ancillary services such as youth centres/groups and sports groups. The people running these make a much-underrated contribution in identifying and keeping vulnerable youngsters from going off the rails. [Post edited 2 Nov 2019 21:03]
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| On a related note ... on 14:52 - Nov 2 with 3057 views | factual_blue |
| On a related note ... on 12:54 - Nov 2 by Guthrum |
I'm not knocking the rich as a whole. Having worked in the charity fundraising sector, I've seen how much many, probably most, of the super-wealthy give to good causes.
I just think it hypocritical that having grown up and run their businesses in a stable country with good infrastructure and a decent social safety net, certain of these types are refusing to pay their fair share. Not punitive rates of 80 or 90%, as we have had in the past. This is only 45 or 50% on the income an individual earns over £80k or £125k.
Interestingly, those making the most fuss include people like Mike Ashley, who does not seem to have the best reputation as an employer. |
And as Andrew Carnegie said, 'The man who dies rich, dies disgraced.' |  |
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| Further austerity then on 15:05 - Nov 2 with 3051 views | sparks |
| Further austerity then on 14:48 - Nov 2 by Nthsuffolkblue |
As I said, difficult to prove cause and effect but anecdotally county lines is, at least partially, driven by an increase in poverty. |
It seems to be driven by technology, ease of operation, and very low drug prices. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Further austerity then on 15:13 - Nov 2 with 3042 views | Bent_double |
| Further austerity then on 15:05 - Nov 2 by sparks |
It seems to be driven by technology, ease of operation, and very low drug prices. |
My understanding is that people are forced to go and work the 'county lines' because they are somehow in debt to the drug dealers, that maybe due to addiction, or simply borrowing money to pay for food/rent/clothes for themselves and their families. |  |
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| Further austerity then on 15:19 - Nov 2 with 3027 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Further austerity then on 15:05 - Nov 2 by sparks |
It seems to be driven by technology, ease of operation, and very low drug prices. |
Or by a market that is easy to tap into.
Poverty increases the likely market and drives the price down (hence the need to expand market share in order to maintain or build profit).
Yes, technology and opportunity apply too. With higher police and social work funding and less desperate poverty some of that is taken out of the picture.
As I keep saying it is not a simple binary, easy to identify issue but austerity helps to feed it. | |
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| Further austerity then on 15:19 - Nov 2 with 3019 views | BlueBadger |
| Further austerity then on 15:05 - Nov 2 by sparks |
It seems to be driven by technology, ease of operation, and very low drug prices. |
And the cuts to policing, youth and social services. | |
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| Further austerity then on 15:20 - Nov 2 with 3023 views | sparks |
| Further austerity then on 15:13 - Nov 2 by Bent_double |
My understanding is that people are forced to go and work the 'county lines' because they are somehow in debt to the drug dealers, that maybe due to addiction, or simply borrowing money to pay for food/rent/clothes for themselves and their families. |
The lcassic approaches seem to be:
They prey on vulnerable people. Kids at care homes. People with mental health issues, alchoholism. etc etc.
They find kids who are easily led, or lack self esteem. Sure- sometimes kids who dont have much. They buy them some gifts, make friends- and then start requiring favours in return. [Post edited 2 Nov 2019 15:22]
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| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Further austerity then on 15:23 - Nov 2 with 3014 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Further austerity then on 15:20 - Nov 2 by sparks |
The lcassic approaches seem to be:
They prey on vulnerable people. Kids at care homes. People with mental health issues, alchoholism. etc etc.
They find kids who are easily led, or lack self esteem. Sure- sometimes kids who dont have much. They buy them some gifts, make friends- and then start requiring favours in return. [Post edited 2 Nov 2019 15:22]
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So not simply poor people but some of it is and many of the rest are people who society are not supporting as well as society should be … partly due to lack of funding due to the Governmental choice of austerity. | |
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| Further austerity then on 15:25 - Nov 2 with 3008 views | sparks |
| Further austerity then on 15:23 - Nov 2 by Nthsuffolkblue |
So not simply poor people but some of it is and many of the rest are people who society are not supporting as well as society should be … partly due to lack of funding due to the Governmental choice of austerity. |
Not at all convinced that follows or can be demonstrated.
Though the resources to tackle it are clearly painfully lacking. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Further austerity then on 15:28 - Nov 2 with 3001 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Further austerity then on 12:48 - Nov 2 by BigManBlue |
Yore* |
U r.... |  |
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| Further austerity then on 15:39 - Nov 2 with 2976 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Further austerity then on 15:25 - Nov 2 by sparks |
Not at all convinced that follows or can be demonstrated.
Though the resources to tackle it are clearly painfully lacking. |
That can't be demonstrated … although clearly the funding that would help prevent it is lacking.
Rather like saying cause and effect is difficult to prove but it is fairly clear austerity is at least a partial driver … my argument throughout. Tackling it reduces it! | |
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| Further austerity then on 16:22 - Nov 2 with 2939 views | sparks |
| Further austerity then on 15:39 - Nov 2 by Nthsuffolkblue |
That can't be demonstrated … although clearly the funding that would help prevent it is lacking.
Rather like saying cause and effect is difficult to prove but it is fairly clear austerity is at least a partial driver … my argument throughout. Tackling it reduces it! |
Your logic does not really work there.
A new ish thing has arisen. It is not clearly driven by austerity (which was plainly a financial necessity to a large extent in any event). We lack, however, the resources to deal with a criminial methodology which is new and technology driven.
The argument is better if it it does not reach too far. Makes it far less straightforward for people who are not with you, to dismiss it... | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| On a related note ... on 16:35 - Nov 2 with 2933 views | bournemouthblue |
| On a related note ... on 12:29 - Nov 2 by Guthrum |
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/nov/02/super-rich-leave-uk-labour-election
What use are these people to the country anyway, if all they want to do is pile up personal wealth and flee at the slightest hint of putting anything back through taxation (hardly at punitive rates by 1970s standards)?
Are they going to cut off their own noses (and income streams) by no longer running their businesses in the UK? Even if they do, will that not leave gaps in the market for other entrepreneurs to replace the lost employment? |
It's a funny one isn't it because actually quite a lot of our Super Rich have decided to leave our economy through taxation, offshoring their money through various tax havens
These people aren't patriots are they
You also have companies such as Amazon who have an intentional policy of paying as little tax as they can, outside of their homeland but want all the financial benefits of those markets and none of the downsides |  |
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| Further austerity then on 16:37 - Nov 2 with 2923 views | bournemouthblue |
| Further austerity then on 14:13 - Nov 2 by sparks |
Its relevant to recoginse that County Lines is a huge driver here- and not obviously connected to cuts as such. |
If you create the environment for crime to flourish, it will. It's quite simple.
It's an uncomfortable truth for the politicians who chose to implement these policies. | |
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| On a related note ... on 16:41 - Nov 2 with 2919 views | BloomBlue |
| On a related note ... on 16:35 - Nov 2 by bournemouthblue |
It's a funny one isn't it because actually quite a lot of our Super Rich have decided to leave our economy through taxation, offshoring their money through various tax havens
These people aren't patriots are they
You also have companies such as Amazon who have an intentional policy of paying as little tax as they can, outside of their homeland but want all the financial benefits of those markets and none of the downsides |
But all people love american companies if you dont like their tax payments stop using Amazon, Netflix, Twitter, Apple etc etc. Trouble is people are hypocrites they moan about those companies but still use them. |  | | |
| Further austerity then on 17:54 - Nov 2 with 2882 views | gazzer1999 |
| Further austerity then on 11:37 - Nov 2 by Guthrum |
Everyone knows that the lower taxes are, the more money governments have to spend. And increasing taxes even a small amount will instantly cause every business in the UK to close down. |
Quite correct, the lower the tax rates and historically the tax take goes up, even with your tongue in cheek. |  | | |
| Further austerity then on 18:23 - Nov 2 with 2852 views | Mullet |
| Further austerity then on 14:51 - Nov 2 by BlueBadger |
Not just that, cuts to ancillary services such as youth centres/groups and sports groups. The people running these make a much-underrated contribution in identifying and keeping vulnerable youngsters from going off the rails. [Post edited 2 Nov 2019 21:03]
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Big Society in full force innit.
Almost as though the stretching of services to breaking point, lack of resources are as joined up as the vicious circle which enables these social ills. To deny it is bizarre. But that's always been the Tory way. |  |
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| Further austerity then on 19:08 - Nov 2 with 2828 views | Guthrum |
| Further austerity then on 17:54 - Nov 2 by gazzer1999 |
Quite correct, the lower the tax rates and historically the tax take goes up, even with your tongue in cheek. |
Can you provide some statistical support for that? | |
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| Further austerity then on 19:25 - Nov 2 with 2813 views | BloomBlue |
| Further austerity then on 19:08 - Nov 2 by Guthrum |
Can you provide some statistical support for that? |
When they increased the tax on house sales over £1m the tax they received reduced by 50% as people reduce the price below £1m to save on tax. Venezuela increased tax by 50% and that created a civil war | | | |
| Further austerity then on 19:31 - Nov 2 with 2802 views | sparks |
| Further austerity then on 19:25 - Nov 2 by BloomBlue |
When they increased the tax on house sales over £1m the tax they received reduced by 50% as people reduce the price below £1m to save on tax. Venezuela increased tax by 50% and that created a civil war |
Thats not support for the point you make.
there is undoubtedly a "sweet spot" beyond which increased taxation results in more problems than income, but what you say above is simply innaccurate. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Further austerity then on 19:34 - Nov 2 with 2798 views | Guthrum |
| Further austerity then on 19:25 - Nov 2 by BloomBlue |
When they increased the tax on house sales over £1m the tax they received reduced by 50% as people reduce the price below £1m to save on tax. Venezuela increased tax by 50% and that created a civil war |
That's not the same as Income Tax. Can't see many reducing their salaries to get below the threshold (and would it be a bad thing if they did?). Plus we're not talking massive increases, just five pence in the pound in very high earning brackets (three to five times the national average earnings). | |
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