Forum | So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is â€œNo Dealâ€ in new clothin by ElderGrizzly

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So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is â€œNo Dealâ€ in new clothin 10:01 - Oct 18 with 6787 views

Worth noting:

Johnsonâ€™s Brexit deal pays the Â£39bn exit fee and creates special NI rules â€“ but leaves the rest of the UK no-dealing by default unless a new comprehensive trade deal is somehow negotiated by the end of a short transition.
— James Ball (@jamesrbuk) October 17, 2019

Itâ€™s a new and un-extendable cliff-edge Brexit within two years, and that fact is currently utterly unreported. And MPs are set to vote on it in two days.
— James Ball (@jamesrbuk) October 17, 2019

For England, Wales and Scotland the most likely outcome of Johnsonâ€™s â€œdealâ€ is a delayed no-deal. Can MPs who voted against no-deal now really endorse that outcome?
— James Ball (@jamesrbuk) October 17, 2019

[Post edited 18 Oct 2019 10:01]

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 11:43 - Oct 18 with 1819 views

Decoy_Octopus

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 11:30 - Oct 18 by Sibelius8

"Due to certain clauses in Theresa May’s Withdrawal Agreement, the UK would have been legally bound to the EU’s ‘level playing field’ rules — such as minimum standards on environmental policy and employment law."

The above quotation is about May's proposed deal, not Johnson's.

The whole Spectator article's concluding paragraph sums up Johnson's deal neatly and precisely:

"Now that the backstop has been removed, it also appears that ECJ’s jurisdiction has been massively reduced. The ECJ will still have jurisdiction over EU citizen’s rights for a time-limited period, and over disputes that relate to an interpretation of EU law in the WA. Northern Ireland will also be subject to some ECJ jurisdiction as long as it remains aligned to the EU. But once we leave, the UK will be free to set its own laws, in its own parliament, with its own elected representatives voting on legislation."

That last bit, about making laws in our own parliament with our own elected representatives.

Haven't we always been able to do that, or were all those general elections I voted in hallucinations or something?

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 11:47 - Oct 18 with 1796 views

artsbossbeard

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 11:30 - Oct 18 by Sibelius8

So, it's BETTER that we don't adhere to these standards?

Show me your workings.

	Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing.
Poll:	Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in?

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 11:50 - Oct 18 with 1784 views

Decoy_Octopus

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 11:38 - Oct 18 by Ryorry
That was a primary reason for my voting remain!

Me too. Someone actually posted on twitter that British workers rights are actually better than the EU ones when you look at the legislation. Yes that may be true, but within the EU they could not be made WORSE than the EU ones.

This is what I worry about, the EU acts as a kind of 'Backstop' (lol) to our own laws, so they couldn't actually be be made worse.

Why anyone actually wants any of this baffles me. most of the laws 'imposed' (that we agreed to have imposed on us) by the EU are actually beneficial to us

Edit: My atrocious spelling

[Post edited 18 Oct 2019 11:52]

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 11:50 - Oct 18 with 1778 views

Herbivore

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 11:47 - Oct 18 by artsbossbeard
So, it's BETTER that we don't adhere to these standards? Show me your workings.

Workers and the environment don't need protection you bloody hippy.

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So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 11:51 - Oct 18 with 1767 views

artsbossbeard

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 11:50 - Oct 18 by Herbivore
Workers and the environment don't need protection you bloody hippy.

*climbs back on top of a tube train*

	Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing.
Poll:	Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in?

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 11:51 - Oct 18 with 1764 views

Herbivore

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 11:50 - Oct 18 by Decoy_Octopus

[Post edited 18 Oct 2019 11:52]

And we have consented to said laws. They aren't imposed on us.

Poll:	Should someone on benefits earn more than David Cameron?
Blog:	Where Did It All Go Wrong for Paul Hurst?

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 11:51 - Oct 18 with 1764 views

Ryorry

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 11:50 - Oct 18 by Decoy_Octopus

[Post edited 18 Oct 2019 11:52]

Precisely.


Poll:	Why can't/don't we protest like the French do? ðŸ¤”

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 11:55 - Oct 18 with 1754 views

Sibelius8

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 11:42 - Oct 18 by Herbivore
So we'll basically have what we have now but just be a lot poorer and with far fewer rights for the average citizen. Where do I sign?

I'm merely quoting an article that summarises the proposed new deal. My own opinions do not come into it at all.

Regarding the actual article, you perhaps do not understand such a neutral report. It does not indicate anyone being poorer. It does not state any loss of rights for "the average citizen" - whatever that may mean. You are merely transferring your own opinions and prejudices to where such specifics do not exist.

-1

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 11:55 - Oct 18 with 1749 views

Darth_Koont

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 10:16 - Oct 18 by giant_stow
But following the logic that hard brexit affects us more than them, it gives them a useful stick to beat us with in negotiations as that next deadline approaches.

Indeed. No deal puts a stop watch as well as a gun to our heads in the trade negotiations to come.

It would play to the rabid Brexiteers and their media as some sort of No Surrender nonsense but it was always about weakening our position even further during the real negotiations.

So to have any sway over Europe they're relying on the EU caring more about their own citizens and the lesser impact No Deal will have on some of them than the British government cares about its citizens and the devastating impact it will have on many of them. As a negotiating tactic, it speaks volumes about our politicians and government and their priorities.

Pronouns: He/Him

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 11:56 - Oct 18 with 1742 views

WeWereZombies

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 11:43 - Oct 18 by Decoy_Octopus
That last bit, about making laws in our own parliament with our own elected representatives. Haven't we always been able to do that, or were all those general elections I voted in hallucinations or something?

We signed up to the Common Market and then ratified the Maastricht Treaty and the Treaty of Lisbon. This means we are bound by some alignment with the laws of other member nations. Should we leave the European Union on 31st October we will no longer have to align with those laws...apart from those laws the deal requires us to align with. But apart from that we will be absolutely free to abide by whatever laws Parliament promulgates...apart from any ones that other trade deals require us to align with...or that the European Court of Justice requires if we want to keep in with respectable nations...oh, and there are the Geneva Conventions and a bundle of other stuff like that...but we can just blindside those...can't we?

And become like...errrr...pirates?

Arrrrrggggh

Poll:

What was in Wes Burns' imaginary cup of tea ?

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 11:58 - Oct 18 with 1730 views

Sibelius8

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 11:47 - Oct 18 by artsbossbeard
So, it's BETTER that we don't adhere to these standards? Show me your workings.

I am merely quoting a report. I have no opinions in the matter. I merely point out your error of not fully understanding the article.

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 11:59 - Oct 18 with 1726 views

artsbossbeard

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 11:58 - Oct 18 by Sibelius8
I am merely quoting a report. I have no opinions in the matter. I merely point out your error of not fully understanding the article.

No error, I understand it fully.

But thanks anyway.

	Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing.
Poll:	Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in?

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 12:01 - Oct 18 with 1713 views

GeoffSentence

They must have whistled in the negotiations.

	Don't boil a kettle on a boat.
Poll:	The best Williams to play for Town

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 12:09 - Oct 18 with 1688 views

Dubtractor

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 11:59 - Oct 18 by artsbossbeard
No error, I understand it fully. But thanks anyway.

I'm not sure how your post could have been misunderstood really buh.

	I was born underwater, I dried out in the sun. I started humping volcanoes baby, when I was too young.
Poll:	How confident are you of promotion now? Predicted final position...

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 12:15 - Oct 18 with 1679 views

BlueBadger

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 11:42 - Oct 18 by Herbivore
So we'll basically have what we have now but just be a lot poorer and with far fewer rights for the average citizen. Where do I sign?

The glorious part about this is that it will be overseas governments that we're doing deals with insisting that we reduce protections, legislation, etc etc

Or, as I call it 'have unelected foreigners tell us what to do'.

	I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
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So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 12:15 - Oct 18 with 1674 views

Ryorry

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 11:55 - Oct 18 by Darth_Koont

The tone and content of some of the utterances of EU officials recently has come across to me as being a lot more concerned and sympathetic to the plight of ordinary UK citizens than most of our own government are!


Poll:	Why can't/don't we protest like the French do? ðŸ¤”

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 12:16 - Oct 18 with 1674 views

BlueBadger

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 11:55 - Oct 18 by Sibelius8

It's not really a 'neutral' report if it's trying to tell you how great it is.

	I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
Poll:	Where would it be funniest to see NCFC fans crying on the telly?
Blog:	From Despair to Where?

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 12:23 - Oct 18 with 1658 views

Herbivore

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 11:55 - Oct 18 by Sibelius8

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

If the article does not touch on economic forecasts relating to the deal or to our loss of rights (freedom of movement as just one example) I'd suggest it's not neutral. The fact it's title is something on the lines of 'Why Boris' deal is better than May's' also isn't an indicator of a neutral report of simple detail.

Wasn't it a Spectator article as well? The Spectator aren't known for being neutral, they're the PM's former employer and are unashamedly right of centre. The inability to critique news sources is a huge issue in this country currently, as you've nicely demonstrated.

Poll:	Should someone on benefits earn more than David Cameron?
Blog:	Where Did It All Go Wrong for Paul Hurst?

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 12:29 - Oct 18 with 1650 views

Darth_Koont

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 12:15 - Oct 18 by Ryorry
The tone and content of some of the utterances of EU officials recently has come across to me as being a lot more concerned and sympathetic to the plight of ordinary UK citizens than most of our own government are!

Always have been IMO.

IMO the basic conflict between the UK and the EU has been because the UK doesn't like being told how to take better care of its citizens and their rights. That's far too socialist for the UK politicians' and media's prevailing free-market, trickle-down ideology of the past 40 years.

Pronouns: He/Him

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 12:30 - Oct 18 with 1649 views

Dubtractor

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 12:23 - Oct 18 by Herbivore

I love it when new posters turn up with a weird superiority complex, but then get easily dismissed on a few posts.

	I was born underwater, I dried out in the sun. I started humping volcanoes baby, when I was too young.
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So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 12:51 - Oct 18 with 1623 views

WeWereZombies

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 12:30 - Oct 18 by Dubtractor
I love it when new posters turn up with a weird superiority complex, but then get easily dismissed on a few posts.

When you say 'new posters' I think you should add the proviso 'or old posters returning under a new username' just to give us a few days to work out who it is...

Poll:

What was in Wes Burns' imaginary cup of tea ?

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 13:22 - Oct 18 with 1583 views

Ryorry

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 12:29 - Oct 18 by Darth_Koont
Always have been IMO. IMO the basic conflict between the UK and the EU has been because the UK doesn't like being told how to take better care of its citizens and their rights. That's far too socialist for the UK politicians' and media's prevailing free-market, trickle-down ideology of the past 40 years.

Good point, and probably true (sadly).


Poll:	Why can't/don't we protest like the French do? ðŸ¤”

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 13:35 - Oct 18 with 1567 views

Swansea_Blue

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 10:22 - Oct 18 by artsbossbeard

I'm also loving The Spectators' view on matters today.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/10/five-reasons-why-boris-johnsons-brexit-dea

Point 4.

Due to certain clauses in Theresa May’s Withdrawal Agreement, the UK would have been legally bound to the EU’s ‘level playing field’ rules — such as minimum standards on environmental policy and employment law.

This is a good thing?

5 points on why diarrhea is better than constipation would be more apt.

In case you hadn't noticed, Brexiteers are utter wangers. By Brexiteers, I mean the people who have made this happen, not the impressionable people press have conscripted to support the Brexiteers' dream

Poll:

Do you think Pert is key to all of this?

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 14:00 - Oct 18 with 1534 views

Swansea_Blue

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 12:29 - Oct 18 by Darth_Koont
Always have been IMO. IMO the basic conflict between the UK and the EU has been because the UK doesn't like being told how to take better care of its citizens and their rights. That's far too socialist for the UK politicians' and media's prevailing free-market, trickle-down ideology of the past 40 years.

Do you mean a conflict/tension between the EU and UK politicians or the public? It fits for the politicians, as this has almost exclusively been an internal Tory matter for as long as I've been alive.

The tragedy is that 'the people' have never been bothered about our EU membership, 'the people' versus the EU is a new construct. Farage and the right wing press banged away with their lies over the years, but UKIP support was small and this didn't translate into voter concerns. The EU only became a matter for widespread public interest when the referendum was announced, and has steadily increased the 'sides' have been wound up by the organ grinders (and immigration has been made a cornerstone of the Europe (non)debate):

The majority have been dragged into this by a lunatic fringe, but it's affecting all of us and will distort the priorities in this country for years to come.

[Post edited 18 Oct 2019 14:04]

Poll:

Do you think Pert is key to all of this?

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 14:47 - Oct 18 with 1488 views

Ryorry

So Boris is paying the Â£39bn after all and this is “No Deal” in new clothin on 14:00 - Oct 18 by Swansea_Blue

The majority have been dragged into this by a lunatic fringe, but it's affecting all of us and will distort the priorities in this country for years to come.

[Post edited 18 Oct 2019 14:04]

I'd have said both, because while you're certainly correct re the internal Tory divisions, I think there's long been a latent undercurrent of grumble amongst many of the public about the EU (along "bureaucratic pedants who we have to pay for sitting in expensive ivory towers deciding that bananas must be straight" lines).

You're probably right that it's taken the referendum to poke that hornet's nest & release the angry buzzing though!

The most ridiculous & aggravating thing about this whole clusterf*ck of assorted sh1te is that apart from the Tory politicians who stand to increase their individual wealth by wrecking the country, the 52% of the public who voted leave seem to have done so on the basis of nothing but emotion, feelings, and the lies they were fed. Tragic. You couldn't make it up if your name were Kafa and you'd written a work of fiction called "The secrets of sneaky backdoors - how to ruin a country" (my title).


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