| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' 08:39 - Jul 25 with 52978 views | m14_blue |
Someone used this term on another thread and it really resonated with me.
It's always fascinated and mystified me how 'normal' Germans allowed the Nazis to perpetrate such evil but the exact same phenomenon is happening in the West at the moment, with 'the left' the new bogeyman.
Now, I'm not saying this will end the same way but the modus operandi is identical. They have control of the overwhelming majority of the printed media and have launched a relentless, vicious assault on the free press that present a balanced, or left leaning, view (the BBC, Channel 4, CNN etc).
You can see the evidence on this very site. There have always been a few far right English Nationalists but there are many who would consider themselves (and I would previously to have considered) to be normal people, decent people, who have been poisoned. They now spout nothing but hatred and bile, throwing around phrases such as 'Enemy of the people', 'traitor', 'treason' whilst being totally unable to explain why.
I challenge anyone to read the below text and deny the parallels. Scary times.
'Men like me were the greater offenders, not because we knew better (that would be too much to say) but because we sensed better. Pastor Niemöller spoke for the thousands and thousands of men like me when he spoke (too modestly of himself) and said that, when the Nazis attacked the Communists, he was a little uneasy, but, after all, he was not a Communist, and so he did nothing; and then they attacked the Socialists, and he was a little uneasier, but, still, he was not a Socialist, and he did nothing; and then the schools, the press, the Jews, and so on, and he was always uneasier, but still he did nothing. And then they attacked the Church, and he was a Churchman, and he did something–but then it was too late."
One doesn’t see exactly where or how to move. Believe me, this is true. Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow. You don’t want to act, or even talk, alone; you don’t want to ‘go out of your way to make trouble.’ Why not?–Well, you are not in the habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty.
You speak privately to your colleagues, some of whom certainly feel as you do; but what do they say? They say, ‘It’s not so bad’ or ‘You’re seeing things’ or ‘You’re an alarmist.’
And you are an alarmist. You are saying that this must lead to this, and you can’t prove it. These are the beginnings, yes; but how do you know for sure when you don’t know the end, and how do you know, or even surmise, the end? On the one hand, the believers intimidate you. On the other, your colleagues pooh-pooh you as pessimistic or even neurotic. You are left with your close friends, who are, naturally, people who have always thought as you have.
And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self-deception has grown too heavy, and some minor incident, in my case my little boy, hardly more than a baby, saying ‘Jewish swine,’ collapses it all at once, and you see that everything, everything, has changed and changed completely under your nose. The world you live in–your nation, your people–is not the world you were born in at all. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed.'
It's time for the liberal (small L) majority in this great country to unite and speak out against the rise of the right. We must not be cowed into silent compliance or things will continue to deteriorate until it is too late. [Post edited 25 Jul 2019 8:43]
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 14:41 - Jul 25 with 6347 views | SpruceMoose |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 12:59 - Jul 25 by m14_blue |
I’m sorry, I really don’t see how that quote relates to the point you go on to make at all?
TWTD is more left and centre leaning than the populace as a whole, I agree with you. |
"TWTD is more left and centre leaning than the populace as a whole, I agree with you."
You forgot 'intelligent'. |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 14:59 - Jul 25 with 6321 views | lowhouseblue |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 14:39 - Jul 25 by Darth_Koont |
We have to have a starting point where equality and the measures needed to achieve it are not immediately classed as Communism by the right or unsustainable and counter-productive by the centre.
In short, we need an adult and honest political discussion. So God knows where that's going to come from given the way our media looks. And where even the balance of the BBC or Guardian has been superseded by their obsession with optics and political manoeuvrings. |
ok. so it involves a dialogue with the centre. you need to show that you share their core values. you need policies that resonate with them - and those policies at the same time need to help achieve progressive, re-distributional objectives. for example, radical housing policies to increase supply (both social housing and for sale) - the selfish centre after all have adult children that they are selfish about; commitment to public services and the nhs with progressive tax rises to fund them; an ambitious green agenda; money spent on effective policing strategies; ambitious industrial policy to invest in innovation and challenge monopoly - using whatever tools are most effective; a commitment to fiscal stability.
my point is that you can build a progressive platform that appeals to the 'selfish centre' and which builds a broad electoral coalition of support. but what you have to do is ruthlessly drop all the other crap that scares them. you need to focus on the progressive / radical elements where there can be broad support. the media will exploit any failure to do this. if you throw around all sorts of weird sectional nonsense that plays to the hard left and alienates the 'selfish centre' you will achieve nothing. your 'selfish centre' can be persuaded to support economic intervention and expanded public provision. but the rest of the baggage from the hard left will simply drive them away. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 15:14 - Jul 25 with 6298 views | Darth_Koont |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 14:59 - Jul 25 by lowhouseblue |
ok. so it involves a dialogue with the centre. you need to show that you share their core values. you need policies that resonate with them - and those policies at the same time need to help achieve progressive, re-distributional objectives. for example, radical housing policies to increase supply (both social housing and for sale) - the selfish centre after all have adult children that they are selfish about; commitment to public services and the nhs with progressive tax rises to fund them; an ambitious green agenda; money spent on effective policing strategies; ambitious industrial policy to invest in innovation and challenge monopoly - using whatever tools are most effective; a commitment to fiscal stability.
my point is that you can build a progressive platform that appeals to the 'selfish centre' and which builds a broad electoral coalition of support. but what you have to do is ruthlessly drop all the other crap that scares them. you need to focus on the progressive / radical elements where there can be broad support. the media will exploit any failure to do this. if you throw around all sorts of weird sectional nonsense that plays to the hard left and alienates the 'selfish centre' you will achieve nothing. your 'selfish centre' can be persuaded to support economic intervention and expanded public provision. but the rest of the baggage from the hard left will simply drive them away. |
No. And I think this is where the Blairite project fell off the rails. To make themselves less threatening and more electable, they didn't do enough to promote the policies of equality and propped up some of the worst excesses and false economy of the free-market ideology.
In government they could surf on the global economic growth and increase spending and commitments but there was no shift towards the value itself of long-term social planning and the sacrifices that are often needed e.g. raising taxation. With the result that as soon as the crash came along we jumped right back into protecting the individual's supposed interests and leaving the actual country to sort things out for itself, most notably by placing an unfair burden on those least able to exploit individual opportunity through a punitive austerity programme.
It was a government that saw itself exactly like the silent liberal majority sees itself. With a social conscience but ultimately too concerned with the individual.
We need an alternative that doesn't just slow down the shift from society to the individual, from equality to liberty, but a government that actually drags us back to a more sustainable and ultimately beneficial balance between the two. |  |
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 15:35 - Jul 25 with 6260 views | lowhouseblue |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 15:14 - Jul 25 by Darth_Koont |
No. And I think this is where the Blairite project fell off the rails. To make themselves less threatening and more electable, they didn't do enough to promote the policies of equality and propped up some of the worst excesses and false economy of the free-market ideology.
In government they could surf on the global economic growth and increase spending and commitments but there was no shift towards the value itself of long-term social planning and the sacrifices that are often needed e.g. raising taxation. With the result that as soon as the crash came along we jumped right back into protecting the individual's supposed interests and leaving the actual country to sort things out for itself, most notably by placing an unfair burden on those least able to exploit individual opportunity through a punitive austerity programme.
It was a government that saw itself exactly like the silent liberal majority sees itself. With a social conscience but ultimately too concerned with the individual.
We need an alternative that doesn't just slow down the shift from society to the individual, from equality to liberty, but a government that actually drags us back to a more sustainable and ultimately beneficial balance between the two. |
but as you have defined the problem you then never get elected. and you never change a single thing. I think it's sad that you clearly want progressive re-distributional change - and, while I don't like some of your language, you identify the key impediment to that change - but you're not prepared to do anything that might achieve it. without winning over your 'selfish centre' it's all hot air and posturing. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 15:51 - Jul 25 with 6242 views | Darth_Koont |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 15:35 - Jul 25 by lowhouseblue |
but as you have defined the problem you then never get elected. and you never change a single thing. I think it's sad that you clearly want progressive re-distributional change - and, while I don't like some of your language, you identify the key impediment to that change - but you're not prepared to do anything that might achieve it. without winning over your 'selfish centre' it's all hot air and posturing. |
Without a party that's committed to making changes and promoting these values then it's pointless getting elected. You then become the least worst option rather than the best option. So we're going in circles here.
The key for me is to not disguise this important focus as some manipulative Trojan horse. But be honest about it and discuss it as well as the real state of our country. This stuff is all discussable if we actually widen the discussion about the UK, especially talking about the world in general and what we can learn from it.
So less of the navel-gazing and what's in it for me? style of politics, definitely less of the point-scoring and smearing party shenanigans. And more a discussion about what is or isn't working on a national, regional, local and individual level and what can we learn from our neighbours who have a better equality-liberty balance and perform better on most social and even economic metrics.
I just see so little of that at present. And it's why we've at least sleepwalked into the current situation the sheer reality of Brexit has exposed of a nation that is divided, frustrated, unequal, rudderless and ultimately a bit hopeless and fearful. | |
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 16:14 - Jul 25 with 6213 views | lowhouseblue |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 15:51 - Jul 25 by Darth_Koont |
Without a party that's committed to making changes and promoting these values then it's pointless getting elected. You then become the least worst option rather than the best option. So we're going in circles here.
The key for me is to not disguise this important focus as some manipulative Trojan horse. But be honest about it and discuss it as well as the real state of our country. This stuff is all discussable if we actually widen the discussion about the UK, especially talking about the world in general and what we can learn from it.
So less of the navel-gazing and what's in it for me? style of politics, definitely less of the point-scoring and smearing party shenanigans. And more a discussion about what is or isn't working on a national, regional, local and individual level and what can we learn from our neighbours who have a better equality-liberty balance and perform better on most social and even economic metrics.
I just see so little of that at present. And it's why we've at least sleepwalked into the current situation the sheer reality of Brexit has exposed of a nation that is divided, frustrated, unequal, rudderless and ultimately a bit hopeless and fearful. |
that's all lovely. but how do you do it? you've defined your 'selfish centre' so how do you get them to engage? the implication seems to be that you'll change them rather than respond to their existing priorities. it's not going to happen. they don't want to go on a social studies course or to be told that you know better than them. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 16:16 - Jul 25 with 6212 views | footers |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 16:14 - Jul 25 by lowhouseblue |
that's all lovely. but how do you do it? you've defined your 'selfish centre' so how do you get them to engage? the implication seems to be that you'll change them rather than respond to their existing priorities. it's not going to happen. they don't want to go on a social studies course or to be told that you know better than them. |
Which is why I'm insisting on them getting what they asked for. Might make them think twice and believe in collectivism again. |  |
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 16:32 - Jul 25 with 6196 views | Darth_Koont |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 16:14 - Jul 25 by lowhouseblue |
that's all lovely. but how do you do it? you've defined your 'selfish centre' so how do you get them to engage? the implication seems to be that you'll change them rather than respond to their existing priorities. it's not going to happen. they don't want to go on a social studies course or to be told that you know better than them. |
There he is.
No, there's no need to change people so much as change the discussion. Both in politics and in our media.
You want an approach where we don't do that and just play by the existing rules and lowest common denominator politicking- when it's the lack of genuine discussion that is the root cause of where we are now and what we'll be missing going forward.
You and your kind (you and GB are the same people with the same "values" let's be honest here) have enabled and fueled this shyte politics and just as shyte discussions. You've pretty much had a hard-on for Corbyn from Day One because you actually think politics is about the game itself. But the real truth I bet is that you know he's actually right to be addressing and raising the problems themselves, whether you agree with his solutions or not.
So I'd start with a purge of you lot and will continue to call you out at every opportunity.  | |
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 10:44 - Jul 26 with 6131 views | caught-in-limbo |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 08:50 - Jul 25 by DanTheMan |
I don't, personally, believe we are sleepwalking into Fascism.
I don't really think the populism of today is actual Fascism, whether that be the Nazi style or the Italian style. There are absolute similarities but some key defining features of Fascism that are not seen in the populists.
I'm not going to be able to explain it very well but here's an article from a few years ago that goes into it with a bit more detail. It's mainly about Trump but the parallels are there.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2015/12/10/9886152/donald-trump-fascism |
I think you're partly right here.
I agree that the populism of today isn't actual Fascism. Actual fascism is what we allowed to happen in Ukraine. I pointed that out at the time and you along with several others on this site repeated the UK media line that it wasn't fascism. It is. We still support it, and incredibly states like Israel still even arm it.
A group of more than 40 human rights activists have filed a petition with the High Court of Justice, demanding the cessation of Israeli arms exports to Ukraine.
They argue that these weapons serve forces that openly espouse a neo-Nazi ideology and cite evidence that the right-wing Azov militia, whose members are part of Ukraine’s armed forces, and are supported by the country’s ministry of internal affairs, is using these weapons."
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/rights-groups-demand-israel-stop-arming-neo-
Most of what is labelled "fascist" is nothing more than controlled opposition. Centrist leftists supposedly fighting this pseudo fascism are the real fascists, but most of us won't realise it because that's not what they tell you in their media and they're not goose-stepping any more.
Let the fascists' shills and useful idiots identify themselves by downvoting this post. |  |
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 10:50 - Jul 26 with 6119 views | lowhouseblue |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 10:44 - Jul 26 by caught-in-limbo |
I think you're partly right here.
I agree that the populism of today isn't actual Fascism. Actual fascism is what we allowed to happen in Ukraine. I pointed that out at the time and you along with several others on this site repeated the UK media line that it wasn't fascism. It is. We still support it, and incredibly states like Israel still even arm it.
A group of more than 40 human rights activists have filed a petition with the High Court of Justice, demanding the cessation of Israeli arms exports to Ukraine.
They argue that these weapons serve forces that openly espouse a neo-Nazi ideology and cite evidence that the right-wing Azov militia, whose members are part of Ukraine’s armed forces, and are supported by the country’s ministry of internal affairs, is using these weapons."
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/rights-groups-demand-israel-stop-arming-neo-
Most of what is labelled "fascist" is nothing more than controlled opposition. Centrist leftists supposedly fighting this pseudo fascism are the real fascists, but most of us won't realise it because that's not what they tell you in their media and they're not goose-stepping any more.
Let the fascists' shills and useful idiots identify themselves by downvoting this post. |
the conspiracy theorising loons are the real proto fascists.
down vote, up vote or no vote you're a conspiracy loon. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 10:56 - Jul 26 with 6108 views | Herbivore |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 10:44 - Jul 26 by caught-in-limbo |
I think you're partly right here.
I agree that the populism of today isn't actual Fascism. Actual fascism is what we allowed to happen in Ukraine. I pointed that out at the time and you along with several others on this site repeated the UK media line that it wasn't fascism. It is. We still support it, and incredibly states like Israel still even arm it.
A group of more than 40 human rights activists have filed a petition with the High Court of Justice, demanding the cessation of Israeli arms exports to Ukraine.
They argue that these weapons serve forces that openly espouse a neo-Nazi ideology and cite evidence that the right-wing Azov militia, whose members are part of Ukraine’s armed forces, and are supported by the country’s ministry of internal affairs, is using these weapons."
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/rights-groups-demand-israel-stop-arming-neo-
Most of what is labelled "fascist" is nothing more than controlled opposition. Centrist leftists supposedly fighting this pseudo fascism are the real fascists, but most of us won't realise it because that's not what they tell you in their media and they're not goose-stepping any more.
Let the fascists' shills and useful idiots identify themselves by downvoting this post. |
You do spout some b0llocks. |  |
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 10:59 - Jul 26 with 6099 views | caught-in-limbo |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 10:50 - Jul 26 by lowhouseblue |
the conspiracy theorising loons are the real proto fascists.
down vote, up vote or no vote you're a conspiracy loon. |
So, you're not going to go though my reply, pull it apart with facts and try to educate me.
No, just label me a witch and throw me in the water to silence me. How very "middle-ages" of you. | |
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 11:04 - Jul 26 with 6085 views | lowhouseblue |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 10:56 - Jul 26 by Herbivore |
You do spout some b0llocks. |
and it's b*llocks with a purpose. the collected works of cil, as with all conspiracy loons, are a concerted effort to undermine faith in democracy and democratic institutions. they make stuff up and they spread malicious nonsense because they - or those who fed it to them - want to spread mistrust. it started with the extreme right and gun nutters and anti-semites and truthers in the usa and has been picked up by other mad people on the internet. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 11:26 - Jul 26 with 6070 views | caught-in-limbo |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 11:04 - Jul 26 by lowhouseblue |
and it's b*llocks with a purpose. the collected works of cil, as with all conspiracy loons, are a concerted effort to undermine faith in democracy and democratic institutions. they make stuff up and they spread malicious nonsense because they - or those who fed it to them - want to spread mistrust. it started with the extreme right and gun nutters and anti-semites and truthers in the usa and has been picked up by other mad people on the internet. |
I've been criticising our brand of glorious democracy for over 10 years on this site. Finally, some people are coming round to my point of view. Democracy in Britain and many other western countries is pretty lame - but not because of me. It's become lame and unrepresentative because people have stopped thinking, and continue to think that the act of simply putting an x in a box next to a candidates name will give them a healthy democracy. It won't. Putting an x next to the name of someone who sincerely intends to represent normal people is my idea of democracy. I fully endorse that. | |
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 22:20 - Jul 26 with 6035 views | Footballpete |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 11:02 - Jul 25 by Nthsuffolkblue |
And this is the whole point of the OP.
Whilst it might be said tongue-in-cheek by some, it is the path that very easily follows as it gets normalised.
I doubt living in pre-war Nazi Germany was very much different to modern Britain or USA. I am not an expert so may be wrong but the little I do know about concerns me greatly. |
It was completely different. The left were completely outlawed, the media was controlled by the state, who were attempting to shape almost every aspect of a citizens life. |  |
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 23:31 - Jul 26 with 6012 views | Bluedandy |
It's really unpleasant how some think it's okay to connect the genocidal tyranny of Nazism with British people who voted to leave the European Union.
The OP is too lazy to bore down into the demographic breakdown of the 2016 referendum and the nuanced implications of how and why people voted the way they did.
Hundreds of thousands of British people who are gay, Jewish, black, Asian and socialist voted leave ... in Nazi Germany these very same voters would have been gassed and incinerated.
So please spare us your illiberal and intolerant narcissism dressed up as universal love of humanity and by extension the European Union. [Post edited 26 Jul 2019 23:43]
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 23:34 - Jul 26 with 6004 views | Darth_Koont |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 23:31 - Jul 26 by Bluedandy |
It's really unpleasant how some think it's okay to connect the genocidal tyranny of Nazism with British people who voted to leave the European Union.
The OP is too lazy to bore down into the demographic breakdown of the 2016 referendum and the nuanced implications of how and why people voted the way they did.
Hundreds of thousands of British people who are gay, Jewish, black, Asian and socialist voted leave ... in Nazi Germany these very same voters would have been gassed and incinerated.
So please spare us your illiberal and intolerant narcissism dressed up as universal love of humanity and by extension the European Union. [Post edited 26 Jul 2019 23:43]
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Nice words but you didn't actually address the OP.
What did you disagree with? | |
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 23:45 - Jul 26 with 5997 views | Bluedandy |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 23:34 - Jul 26 by Darth_Koont |
Nice words but you didn't actually address the OP.
What did you disagree with? |
The OP's observations are baloney and that my fellow supporter of Ipswich Town is that ... goodnight. [Post edited 26 Jul 2019 23:46]
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 23:49 - Jul 26 with 5989 views | Darth_Koont |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 23:45 - Jul 26 by Bluedandy |
The OP's observations are baloney and that my fellow supporter of Ipswich Town is that ... goodnight. [Post edited 26 Jul 2019 23:46]
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Sleep well. | |
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 23:53 - Jul 26 with 5987 views | jeera |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 23:31 - Jul 26 by Bluedandy |
It's really unpleasant how some think it's okay to connect the genocidal tyranny of Nazism with British people who voted to leave the European Union.
The OP is too lazy to bore down into the demographic breakdown of the 2016 referendum and the nuanced implications of how and why people voted the way they did.
Hundreds of thousands of British people who are gay, Jewish, black, Asian and socialist voted leave ... in Nazi Germany these very same voters would have been gassed and incinerated.
So please spare us your illiberal and intolerant narcissism dressed up as universal love of humanity and by extension the European Union. [Post edited 26 Jul 2019 23:43]
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In defence of the OP his post didn't read to be all about the Referendum.
That's your interpretation. |  |
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 04:42 - Jul 27 with 5957 views | m14_blue |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 23:31 - Jul 26 by Bluedandy |
It's really unpleasant how some think it's okay to connect the genocidal tyranny of Nazism with British people who voted to leave the European Union.
The OP is too lazy to bore down into the demographic breakdown of the 2016 referendum and the nuanced implications of how and why people voted the way they did.
Hundreds of thousands of British people who are gay, Jewish, black, Asian and socialist voted leave ... in Nazi Germany these very same voters would have been gassed and incinerated.
So please spare us your illiberal and intolerant narcissism dressed up as universal love of humanity and by extension the European Union. [Post edited 26 Jul 2019 23:43]
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Well that’s a very, very weird response that seems to have little or no relevance to the OP. | | | |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 09:45 - Jul 27 with 5927 views | Herbivore |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 22:20 - Jul 26 by Footballpete |
It was completely different. The left were completely outlawed, the media was controlled by the state, who were attempting to shape almost every aspect of a citizens life. |
I don't feel like we're a million miles away from that. | |
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 11:47 - Jul 27 with 5903 views | ballycastle |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 09:45 - Jul 27 by Herbivore |
I don't feel like we're a million miles away from that. |
Oh for fecks sake Rick have a word with Neil and calm down. | | | |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 12:05 - Jul 27 with 5895 views | Herbivore |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 11:47 - Jul 27 by ballycastle |
Oh for fecks sake Rick have a word with Neil and calm down. |
It'd be nice if you occasionally added something, anything, to the debate instead of just sniping. | |
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| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 12:18 - Jul 27 with 5885 views | ballycastle |
| 'Sleepwalking into Fascism' on 12:05 - Jul 27 by Herbivore |
It'd be nice if you occasionally added something, anything, to the debate instead of just sniping. |
Sorry, it was a retro attempt at humour to lighten the mood of your overly dramatic notion that the left is being outlawed. | | | |
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