| Boris Johnson - court case on 18:06 - May 29 with 770 views | manchego |
| Boris Johnson - court case on 17:40 - May 29 by Pinewoodblue |
I don't recall George Osborne saying it was only £150m a week probably because it would be seen as a negative comment and unhelpful to the cause. |
Explaining that membership of the EU is worth about 70 billion would not have been difficult would it ?
You know, 70 is more than 9. |  | |  |
| Boris Johnson - court case on 18:10 - May 29 with 764 views | lowhouseblue |
a politician choosing to use a gross figure rather than a net figure during a political debate isn't a mater for the courts. it's patently ridiculous and when this gets to a proper level the courts won't touch it. it's a political stunt. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| Boris Johnson - court case on 18:11 - May 29 with 761 views | manchego |
| Boris Johnson - court case on 14:41 - May 29 by ShropshireBluenago09 |
The net amount is £9 billion after the EU takes the initial 18 billion and distributes back to us - What is the point of that! |
Well, one example is that there a folks / industries / regions who benefit ( like Cornwall ) who would not if left to Westminster.
Ironically, Cornwall voted to leave and then complained that they won't be getting the EU ( or any ) benefits after leaving. It's as if they had no clue that they were benefiting from being in the EU. | | | |
| Boris Johnson - court case on 18:13 - May 29 with 753 views | footers |
| Boris Johnson - court case on 18:10 - May 29 by lowhouseblue |
a politician choosing to use a gross figure rather than a net figure during a political debate isn't a mater for the courts. it's patently ridiculous and when this gets to a proper level the courts won't touch it. it's a political stunt. |
Don't you think it's dangerous to basically mislead millions of people? Most people would take the word 'give' to mean net. Using the gross figure is still technically correct but not the first thing people would think of when met with the word 'give'.
It's knowingly irresponsible. |  |
| |
| Boris Johnson - court case on 18:13 - May 29 with 751 views | BloomBlue |
| Boris Johnson - court case on 17:45 - May 29 by Swansea_Blue |
It was wrong, as is this. Brexit is a whole exercise based on fabrication and distortion of the truth for personal gain and wealth. |
British forces lost their lives because of Blair's fabrication I think you're wrong to belittle those lost lives when comparing it with Brexit. |  | | |
| Boris Johnson - court case on 18:14 - May 29 with 747 views | ballycastle |
All the CHUK MP's next then? Standing on a manifesto they all had no intention of standing by, now that is criminal. |  | | |
| Boris Johnson - court case on 18:19 - May 29 with 735 views | manchego |
| Boris Johnson - court case on 17:58 - May 29 by GlasgowBlue |
I’m suing Andy Burnham for his “we only have 24 hours to save the NHS” campaign. |
He's been doing similar since 2011 so not part of the campaign.
I'm sure he said it through the campaign but we have to draw a line somewhere. | | | |
| Boris Johnson - court case on 18:20 - May 29 with 731 views | lowhouseblue |
| Boris Johnson - court case on 18:13 - May 29 by footers |
Don't you think it's dangerous to basically mislead millions of people? Most people would take the word 'give' to mean net. Using the gross figure is still technically correct but not the first thing people would think of when met with the word 'give'.
It's knowingly irresponsible. |
and it was challenged at the time and others put the other view. it was a political debate and it is no different from 90% of the things that are said during a political debate. it was there to be challenged and knocked down. the idea that this is a matter for the courts is laughable and political debate would be impossible if that was the case. when this gets to a higher level the courts will throw it out. corbyn never explained how he'd pay for 90% of the things he promised - do you think the courts are going to take on the role of editing his manifesto? this is just a very silly political stunt.
when you're asked what you're paid do you provide the gross or the net figure? is the gross figure a lie?
and by the way boris is a total tool, but this is a silly stunt. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Boris Johnson - court case on 18:26 - May 29 with 719 views | manchego |
| Boris Johnson - court case on 18:20 - May 29 by lowhouseblue |
and it was challenged at the time and others put the other view. it was a political debate and it is no different from 90% of the things that are said during a political debate. it was there to be challenged and knocked down. the idea that this is a matter for the courts is laughable and political debate would be impossible if that was the case. when this gets to a higher level the courts will throw it out. corbyn never explained how he'd pay for 90% of the things he promised - do you think the courts are going to take on the role of editing his manifesto? this is just a very silly political stunt.
when you're asked what you're paid do you provide the gross or the net figure? is the gross figure a lie?
and by the way boris is a total tool, but this is a silly stunt. |
This is the problem:
A new study has found that a majority of voters (42%) believed the “we send the EU £350m a week - let’s fund our NHS instead” message to still be true. Just 36% believed it to be false, while 22% were unsure.
Researchers from King’s College London have concluded despite attempts to debunk the myths behind the message, it has had little impact on those that still believe in the figures.
Polling - carried out by Ipsos MORI - found that Conservative voters and pro-Brexit voters were the most susceptible to the £350m line. It found that 54% of Tory voters and 61% of Leave voters believed the claim compared with 33% of Labour voters and 22% of Lib Dem voters - and 23% of Remain voters. | | | |
| Boris Johnson - court case on 18:37 - May 29 with 708 views | eireblue |
| Boris Johnson - court case on 18:20 - May 29 by lowhouseblue |
and it was challenged at the time and others put the other view. it was a political debate and it is no different from 90% of the things that are said during a political debate. it was there to be challenged and knocked down. the idea that this is a matter for the courts is laughable and political debate would be impossible if that was the case. when this gets to a higher level the courts will throw it out. corbyn never explained how he'd pay for 90% of the things he promised - do you think the courts are going to take on the role of editing his manifesto? this is just a very silly political stunt.
when you're asked what you're paid do you provide the gross or the net figure? is the gross figure a lie?
and by the way boris is a total tool, but this is a silly stunt. |
It isn’t about gross or net.
I believe the case also references the evidence that BoJo publicly talked about the correct figure, before the Brexit campaign. So was aware of the correct amount that is “sent to the EU”. |  | | |
| Boris Johnson - court case on 18:38 - May 29 with 707 views | lowhouseblue |
| Boris Johnson - court case on 18:26 - May 29 by manchego |
This is the problem:
A new study has found that a majority of voters (42%) believed the “we send the EU £350m a week - let’s fund our NHS instead” message to still be true. Just 36% believed it to be false, while 22% were unsure.
Researchers from King’s College London have concluded despite attempts to debunk the myths behind the message, it has had little impact on those that still believe in the figures.
Polling - carried out by Ipsos MORI - found that Conservative voters and pro-Brexit voters were the most susceptible to the £350m line. It found that 54% of Tory voters and 61% of Leave voters believed the claim compared with 33% of Labour voters and 22% of Lib Dem voters - and 23% of Remain voters. |
i'm certain there a huge number of things that are said during elections and the like that people believe but are open to challenge.
the trouble is that with the statement “we send the EU £350m a week - let’s fund our NHS instead” there is actually nothing that is untrue. we do send approximately that sum to the eu - the statement doesn't say the sum is net or that we don't also get stuff back. we could indeed fund the nhs rather than pay money to the eu - again the statement doesn't say how much we could actually put into the nhs. it doesn't say we can put £350m into the nhs. it may well mislead but it isn't a lie. equally most people have no idea whatsoever of the difference between what £350m gets you and what £175m gets you - for most people they are meaningless big numbers. most people see that statement and conclude that if we didn't pay money to the eu we 'could' put more into the nhs -which is undeniably true.
but this sort of debate is exactly what politics is about - people make claims other people challenge. the reality emerges through challenge and counter assertion. it has nothing to do with the courts and higher level courts will not touch this. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| Boris Johnson - court case on 18:44 - May 29 with 700 views | eireblue |
| Boris Johnson - court case on 18:38 - May 29 by lowhouseblue |
i'm certain there a huge number of things that are said during elections and the like that people believe but are open to challenge.
the trouble is that with the statement “we send the EU £350m a week - let’s fund our NHS instead” there is actually nothing that is untrue. we do send approximately that sum to the eu - the statement doesn't say the sum is net or that we don't also get stuff back. we could indeed fund the nhs rather than pay money to the eu - again the statement doesn't say how much we could actually put into the nhs. it doesn't say we can put £350m into the nhs. it may well mislead but it isn't a lie. equally most people have no idea whatsoever of the difference between what £350m gets you and what £175m gets you - for most people they are meaningless big numbers. most people see that statement and conclude that if we didn't pay money to the eu we 'could' put more into the nhs -which is undeniably true.
but this sort of debate is exactly what politics is about - people make claims other people challenge. the reality emerges through challenge and counter assertion. it has nothing to do with the courts and higher level courts will not touch this. |
The rebate is calculated before any money “is sent” to the EU.
So the 350M figure is wrong, whether it is gross or net. | | | |
| Boris Johnson - court case on 18:49 - May 29 with 692 views | lowhouseblue |
| Boris Johnson - court case on 18:44 - May 29 by eireblue |
The rebate is calculated before any money “is sent” to the EU.
So the 350M figure is wrong, whether it is gross or net. |
according to the ons the 'gross contribution' (their phrase) in 2016 was £18.9bn - which gives you the £350m figure.
obviously the net figure (taking off the rebate) comes down to about £13bn, and then we get eu spending in the UK taking it lower still.
the idea that referring to one of these figures rather than another figure is a 'lie' is pretty silly and it's nothing to do with the courts. [Post edited 29 May 2019 18:49]
| |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| Boris Johnson - court case on 18:55 - May 29 with 681 views | eireblue |
| Boris Johnson - court case on 18:49 - May 29 by lowhouseblue |
according to the ons the 'gross contribution' (their phrase) in 2016 was £18.9bn - which gives you the £350m figure.
obviously the net figure (taking off the rebate) comes down to about £13bn, and then we get eu spending in the UK taking it lower still.
the idea that referring to one of these figures rather than another figure is a 'lie' is pretty silly and it's nothing to do with the courts. [Post edited 29 May 2019 18:49]
|
However, the case is about the phrase “sent to the EU”
That is incorrect.
BoJo knows it is incorrect.
Because he used the correct figure that is sent to the EU.
The phrase “sent to the EU” is key. Not gross or net.
JRM, was on the radio, also incorrectly or possibly purposefully, using that same obfuscation. | | | |
| Boris Johnson - court case on 19:07 - May 29 with 664 views | lowhouseblue |
| Boris Johnson - court case on 18:55 - May 29 by eireblue |
However, the case is about the phrase “sent to the EU”
That is incorrect.
BoJo knows it is incorrect.
Because he used the correct figure that is sent to the EU.
The phrase “sent to the EU” is key. Not gross or net.
JRM, was on the radio, also incorrectly or possibly purposefully, using that same obfuscation. |
that's a figure of speech. are you 'paid' your gross salary? how can it be 'paid' to you if it never gets into your bank account. but when people say i'm 'paid' £X they're always referring to their gross salary, but that's not really what's 'paid' to them.
if you want to show boris is wrong or is seeking to mislead - great. show him up for exaggerating or being inaccurate or even lying. but this has nothing to do with the courts. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| Boris Johnson - court case on 19:11 - May 29 with 659 views | Pinewoodblue |
The great unwashed voted to leave the EU because Cameron and co, so convinced they couldn't lose, failed to get the support of the electorate. Corbyn is still sitting on the same fence he did three years ago. He hardly lifted a finger to help.
They are the reasons we got ourselves into this mess, not what Boris said. |  |
| |
| Boris Johnson - court case on 19:27 - May 29 with 642 views | eireblue |
| Boris Johnson - court case on 19:07 - May 29 by lowhouseblue |
that's a figure of speech. are you 'paid' your gross salary? how can it be 'paid' to you if it never gets into your bank account. but when people say i'm 'paid' £X they're always referring to their gross salary, but that's not really what's 'paid' to them.
if you want to show boris is wrong or is seeking to mislead - great. show him up for exaggerating or being inaccurate or even lying. but this has nothing to do with the courts. |
What is the point of having a misconduct charge?
Even the ONS asked Boris to stop using that figure.
It is not a gross figure.
There is a calculation that determines my salary. That is my gross pay.
There is a calculation that determines how much we send to the EU. That is the gross figure.
Boris lied about that.
At some point it would be nice to draw a distinction between facts, predictions, aspiration and lies as told by politicians. | | | |
| Boris Johnson - court case on 19:49 - May 29 with 631 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Boris Johnson - court case on 18:10 - May 29 by lowhouseblue |
a politician choosing to use a gross figure rather than a net figure during a political debate isn't a mater for the courts. it's patently ridiculous and when this gets to a proper level the courts won't touch it. it's a political stunt. |
An expensive one at that! |  |
| |
| Boris Johnson - court case on 20:10 - May 29 with 619 views | lowhouseblue |
| Boris Johnson - court case on 19:27 - May 29 by eireblue |
What is the point of having a misconduct charge?
Even the ONS asked Boris to stop using that figure.
It is not a gross figure.
There is a calculation that determines my salary. That is my gross pay.
There is a calculation that determines how much we send to the EU. That is the gross figure.
Boris lied about that.
At some point it would be nice to draw a distinction between facts, predictions, aspiration and lies as told by politicians. |
according to the ons it's a gross figure.
so when you're asked what you're paid you give a net figure? really?
and by the way we don't 'send' anything to the eu. what happens is that a figure gets entered on the balance of official finance at the B of E, and a matching figure is entered at the ECB. nothing at all is 'sent'. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| Boris Johnson - court case on 20:24 - May 29 with 605 views | eireblue |
| Boris Johnson - court case on 20:10 - May 29 by lowhouseblue |
according to the ons it's a gross figure.
so when you're asked what you're paid you give a net figure? really?
and by the way we don't 'send' anything to the eu. what happens is that a figure gets entered on the balance of official finance at the B of E, and a matching figure is entered at the ECB. nothing at all is 'sent'. |
I didn’t say what figure I would give.
The gross figure I get is based on a calculation. It is variable.
I don’t quote my gross salary on one of the inputs into the calculation.
If asked what my salary was I would quote the result of the calculation, not one of the inputs into the calculation.
Yes I do know how banking transfers work.
The money entered was the gross figure.
Not the figure Boris mentioned. Boris mentions a figure that goes into the calculation to create the gross figure.
They do say people get the politicians they deserve.
If you can get away with lying about a simple thing like an amount, then all bets are off really.
I just think it would be nice for a politician to have some form of negative consequence for a blatant lie. Admirable that someone is attempting it. | | | |
| Boris Johnson - court case on 20:37 - May 29 with 595 views | lowhouseblue |
| Boris Johnson - court case on 20:24 - May 29 by eireblue |
I didn’t say what figure I would give.
The gross figure I get is based on a calculation. It is variable.
I don’t quote my gross salary on one of the inputs into the calculation.
If asked what my salary was I would quote the result of the calculation, not one of the inputs into the calculation.
Yes I do know how banking transfers work.
The money entered was the gross figure.
Not the figure Boris mentioned. Boris mentions a figure that goes into the calculation to create the gross figure.
They do say people get the politicians they deserve.
If you can get away with lying about a simple thing like an amount, then all bets are off really.
I just think it would be nice for a politician to have some form of negative consequence for a blatant lie. Admirable that someone is attempting it. |
but ons says £18.9 bn in 2016 was the gross contribution.
you're the one who thought 'send' was the key word. we don't 'send' anything.
call him a liar - prove him wrong. great. but it isn't a matter for the courts. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| Boris Johnson - court case on 20:45 - May 29 with 588 views | eireblue |
| Boris Johnson - court case on 20:37 - May 29 by lowhouseblue |
but ons says £18.9 bn in 2016 was the gross contribution.
you're the one who thought 'send' was the key word. we don't 'send' anything.
call him a liar - prove him wrong. great. but it isn't a matter for the courts. |
So why have a law about mis-conduct in office?
A definitive way to prove him wrong, is in court.
That’s the point. | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
