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So remain parties won slightly more votes than leave parties. on 09:11 - May 27 by Darth_Koont
That's a fair point.
I'll rephrase: A third of those who bothered to vote have given up on reason and will let themselves be led by the nose into supporting a no deal that will cause them problems and cause the Brexit Party leaders zero.
I agree that this vote doesn't ultimately mean anything. More a comment on what some voters are willing to put their cross next to. Probably shows we're just a small step away from having a Trump-like populist in government not just on the fringes like Farage.
Please explain your assumptions and maths you have confused me completely?
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So remain parties won slightly more votes than leave parties. on 09:29 - May 27 with 1985 views
So remain parties won slightly more votes than leave parties. on 07:29 - May 27 by homer_123
It tells us people are disillusioned.
It tells us just how little people appreciate, understand and acknowledge the depth of feeling some have. Politicians assume too much....far too removed from day to day life.
It tells us people are selfish.
For those on either side...consider this. Even though the lies have been shown regarding leave campaign....regardless of the additional information to hand regarding Brexit people are still voting to leave.
No one is asking why....no one is addressing the reasons why people are disillusioned with the EU or want change so much that they are happy to vote for something so radical.
It tells us that we are split, individualistic, no longer a United people an outcome of societal change that has been slowly changing the Westernised world where the focus is on the individual not the collective.
We no longer care enough about education, health, social care. We care more about images we post on social media, gaming, pursuit of wealth and status.
Brexit is merely a side show of a larger collective malaise we are seeing worldwide.
[Post edited 27 May 2019 9:46]
This is the best thing I've read on this forum for a very long time.
There's no bigger influence on the shaping of society than the media - all of it: what we watch on TV and read in the papers and what we see on social media.
We can't wait for society to change to something we prefer, we have to "be the change we wish to see in the world."
So remain parties won slightly more votes than leave parties. on 08:58 - May 27 by GlasgowBlue
Both the Tories and Labour’s official position is to implement Brexit. That’s a fact.
Labour are in favour of a second referendum if the Tories are in power, although they won’t commit to saying remain will be an option. If Labour are in government then they are not in favour of a second referendum and will negotiate their own deal to leave.
Even when their senior spokespeople spell out their position there are people who still put their heads in the sand.
The last thing Corbyn is doing is chasing votes. He’s been a Brexiteer since before anyone heard of Nigel Farage.
Corbyn is not all of the Labour party, once again you are being disingenuous in not addressing the points made to you and using what you term the 'official position' as a binary choice to mask a wide spectrum of opinions and attitudes. By the way, your link is two months old. As a former Labour leader, Harold Wilson, said 'a week is a long time in politics'.
So remain parties won slightly more votes than leave parties. on 07:29 - May 27 by homer_123
It tells us people are disillusioned.
It tells us just how little people appreciate, understand and acknowledge the depth of feeling some have. Politicians assume too much....far too removed from day to day life.
It tells us people are selfish.
For those on either side...consider this. Even though the lies have been shown regarding leave campaign....regardless of the additional information to hand regarding Brexit people are still voting to leave.
No one is asking why....no one is addressing the reasons why people are disillusioned with the EU or want change so much that they are happy to vote for something so radical.
It tells us that we are split, individualistic, no longer a United people an outcome of societal change that has been slowly changing the Westernised world where the focus is on the individual not the collective.
We no longer care enough about education, health, social care. We care more about images we post on social media, gaming, pursuit of wealth and status.
Brexit is merely a side show of a larger collective malaise we are seeing worldwide.
[Post edited 27 May 2019 9:46]
Agreed. It's a failing of the political system (as a representative democracy) and the media (who should be the necessary balance to politicians abdicating their duty to the country to chase the marginal votes).
I've been banging on about this for years. Mainly because Scotland has gone through this over the past decade. And effectively discarded the traditional red and blue. The difference is that the void there has been replaced by a serious political party, the SNP, who aim to be representative of the country's interests as a whole. It's been so successful that even Scottish Labour and the Scottish Conservatives have upped their game and are also more responsible parties nowadays.
Contrast that with South of the border where the void has been filled with populist charlatans who seek power but not knowledge. And now they hold the entire UK to ransom with their silliness.
[Post edited 27 May 2019 10:05]
Pronouns: He/Him
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So remain parties won slightly more votes than leave parties. on 10:10 - May 27 with 1902 views
I don't think that's a meaningful or accurate statement personally. It was a low turn out and it wasn't a single issue question.
For example, some Brexiteers will have voted Green (nominally in the Remain bloc), because they consider environmental issues to be more important than Brexit.
Only another Brexit-specific referendum could give a true representation of the 'state of the nation' and that, obviously, tempered by turnout.
Calm and honest discussions for a pragmatic way forward are what is needed, taking out the emotion and egocentricity of the today's standard politician. So these kind of statements, for me, are inflammatory because they don't bring any clarity to the situation.
Not in any way a dig at the OP, as I think it raises a good question (just not a good statement).
Edit: By the way, I'm not necessarily advocating another referendum, but if one were to be held, I think it would have to be remain / 'deal' / and no deal knockout-one-and-go-again type thingy (not sure what the correct term is?)
[Post edited 27 May 2019 10:17]
# WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE #
So remain parties won slightly more votes than leave parties. on 09:33 - May 27 by caught-in-limbo
This is the best thing I've read on this forum for a very long time.
There's no bigger influence on the shaping of society than the media - all of it: what we watch on TV and read in the papers and what we see on social media.
We can't wait for society to change to something we prefer, we have to "be the change we wish to see in the world."
Although you have closed with a (misquoted) Mahatma Gandhi quote and he was a bit of a politician in his time.
In the EU referendum 72% of the population voted in something they cared for! Thursday 38% turned out for a election most people didnt want much less cared about,now all of a sudden we are told that is a reflection of public opinion! Of course the more hardliners on either side of the debate try to spin the figures but in the end I think you will find most of the people didn’t actually give a stuff.
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So remain parties won slightly more votes than leave parties. on 10:27 - May 27 with 1871 views
So remain parties won slightly more votes than leave parties. on 10:15 - May 27 by caught-in-limbo
I expressed Gandhi's words in an all-inclusive kinda way - I'm sure he'd have approved. I'm not sure what point you're making apart from that.
The point I am making is that I am pretty certain that Gandhi did not have a presence on social media. OK, I am sure that he spoke to journalists but his following was driven by basic human needs and awareness of oppression from everyday experience rather than a media campaign. Would need to have been there at the time I guess, wasn't Factual a subaltern in the Twelfth Ixworth Donkey Lancers at the time?
So remain parties won slightly more votes than leave parties. on 09:59 - May 27 by WeWereZombies
Corbyn is not all of the Labour party, once again you are being disingenuous in not addressing the points made to you and using what you term the 'official position' as a binary choice to mask a wide spectrum of opinions and attitudes. By the way, your link is two months old. As a former Labour leader, Harold Wilson, said 'a week is a long time in politics'.
It’s hardly disingenuous to point out the Labour manifesto commitment to leaving the EU and linking recent statements from Labour spokespeople.
You can put your fingers in your ears and shout la la la as much as you want. That doesn’t change the Labour Party position on Brexit.
So remain parties won slightly more votes than leave parties. on 13:04 - May 27 by GlasgowBlue
It’s hardly disingenuous to point out the Labour manifesto commitment to leaving the EU and linking recent statements from Labour spokespeople.
You can put your fingers in your ears and shout la la la as much as you want. That doesn’t change the Labour Party position on Brexit.
I think you are the one putting your fingers in your ears and shouting la la la, aren't you? There are open divisions in both the Conservative party and Labour, to the extent that they have already both lost MPs to Change UK. And from a great deal of the political debate over the last three years it is obvious that many more MPs are lukewarm regarding Brexit but just obeying the party whips. And that is just the MPs, grass roots party members are also divided on this issue. Why are you so keen to ascribe a commitment on, frankly, a chaotic pair of parties when their manifesto and policies could be rewritten tomorrow to say the opposite of what they say today?
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