| Red lines! 10:42 - Mar 24 with 16701 views | bluejacko |
Just watched Andrew Marr,now if the SNP and Labour have got their red lines but are not prepared to budge on them what makes everybody think the Govt should move on theirs.
Total cock up all round if nobody wants to compromise then no deal it is because there is no other option! |  | | |  |
| Red lines! on 21:50 - Mar 24 with 2417 views | pickles110564 |
Yes it is m8, the haulage industry has been flooded with Eu drivers and as i say some are very bad indeed and i would not want them following me with a 30 ton load on their back.
The building industry was hit very hard and could not compete as they would have multiple people living in one house bringing costs so low compared with UK trades. |  | | |
| Red lines! on 21:51 - Mar 24 with 2413 views | pickles110564 |
| Red lines! on 19:23 - Mar 24 by Herbivore |
Who are you referring to? |
May of course | | | |
| Red lines! on 21:51 - Mar 24 with 2413 views | Ryorry |
| Red lines! on 17:11 - Mar 24 by pickles110564 |
Oh so when it does not suit you you change your view, been here before have we not? |
No, and no. |  |
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| Red lines! on 22:03 - Mar 24 with 2392 views | brendanh |
| Red lines! on 18:16 - Mar 24 by Chocorange |
It was very much about immigration. ( internal EU nor external EU)
I lost count of the number of midland and northern towns and cities where the main comment on why they were voting leave was they were tired of having their children being schooled in a class where over half of the pupils were from other EU countries.
Poles, Lithuanians, Bulgarians , Portugeuse ,Romanians.
They also didn't want to compete with them for basic wage jobs, making them unemployed and having a standard of living drop.
If that problem had been solved , leave woud not have won... |
"It was very much about immigration. ( internal EU nor external EU). I lost count of the number of midland and northern towns and cities where the main comment on why they were voting leave was they were tired of having their children being schooled in a class where over half of the pupils were from other EU countries."
This. Sure there were ignorant xenophobes who voted leave, but this, this was a legitimate grievance. The social contract was broken. Immigration is unequivocally good for the UK. It fills gaps in an ageing workforce, brings fresh ideas and enriches culture. Many of the EU immigrants are well educated, and take the plumb jobs that kids born on sink estates in northern towns simply never had a chance of getting. They went to rubbish schools with little chance of progressing to uni and beyond. Voting leave was not an expression of what was the best policy in regards to the EU, it was an embittered revolt by people left on the scrap-heap.
Remain and reform. Education, education, education. EU membership and free movement of workers is only legitimate if there are fair life chances for people who are already here. | | | |
| Red lines! on 22:14 - Mar 24 with 2368 views | Ryorry |
| Red lines! on 22:03 - Mar 24 by brendanh |
"It was very much about immigration. ( internal EU nor external EU). I lost count of the number of midland and northern towns and cities where the main comment on why they were voting leave was they were tired of having their children being schooled in a class where over half of the pupils were from other EU countries."
This. Sure there were ignorant xenophobes who voted leave, but this, this was a legitimate grievance. The social contract was broken. Immigration is unequivocally good for the UK. It fills gaps in an ageing workforce, brings fresh ideas and enriches culture. Many of the EU immigrants are well educated, and take the plumb jobs that kids born on sink estates in northern towns simply never had a chance of getting. They went to rubbish schools with little chance of progressing to uni and beyond. Voting leave was not an expression of what was the best policy in regards to the EU, it was an embittered revolt by people left on the scrap-heap.
Remain and reform. Education, education, education. EU membership and free movement of workers is only legitimate if there are fair life chances for people who are already here. |
Maybe if any of our politicians had bothered to explain about the numbers of EU nationals keeping the NHS, our social care/support systems, our UK seasonal farm crops etc etc etc going ... but iirc they didn't - it was on here, good old TWTD forum, that many people learned about such detail! | |
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| Red lines! on 22:18 - Mar 24 with 2354 views | Herbivore |
Oh dear. |  |
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| Red lines! on 22:20 - Mar 24 with 2346 views | pickles110564 |
| Red lines! on 22:18 - Mar 24 by Herbivore |
Oh dear. |
have a good night Herbie, getting tired of all this now, what else can we chat about that we might agree on? | | | |
| Red lines! on 22:22 - Mar 24 with 2341 views | SpruceMoose |
| Red lines! on 22:20 - Mar 24 by pickles110564 |
have a good night Herbie, getting tired of all this now, what else can we chat about that we might agree on? |
Death penalty? |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Red lines! on 22:25 - Mar 24 with 2332 views | jeera |
| Red lines! on 22:22 - Mar 24 by SpruceMoose |
Death penalty? |
Yes, that will get us all united.
Curry. Everyone likes curry.
Except maybe J2. He once said he could take it or leave it. [Post edited 24 Mar 2019 22:30]
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| Red lines! on 22:26 - Mar 24 with 2332 views | J2BLUE |
| Red lines! on 22:25 - Mar 24 by jeera |
Yes, that will get us all united.
Curry. Everyone likes curry.
Except maybe J2. He once said he could take it or leave it. [Post edited 24 Mar 2019 22:30]
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I had curry for lunch actually. It has grown on me a lot over the last year or so. |  |
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| Red lines! on 22:27 - Mar 24 with 2331 views | SpruceMoose |
| Red lines! on 22:26 - Mar 24 by J2BLUE |
I had curry for lunch actually. It has grown on me a lot over the last year or so. |
Did... You make it yourself? | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Red lines! on 22:30 - Mar 24 with 2325 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Red lines! on 22:20 - Mar 24 by pickles110564 |
have a good night Herbie, getting tired of all this now, what else can we chat about that we might agree on? |
Tell him how clever he is. |  |
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| Red lines! on 22:31 - Mar 24 with 2315 views | jeera |
| Red lines! on 22:26 - Mar 24 by J2BLUE |
I had curry for lunch actually. It has grown on me a lot over the last year or so. |
Good man.
What was it? | |
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| Red lines! on 22:31 - Mar 24 with 2316 views | Ryorry |
| Red lines! on 22:26 - Mar 24 by J2BLUE |
I had curry for lunch actually. It has grown on me a lot over the last year or so. |
Did you keep tasting the same one over and over?  | |
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| Red lines! on 22:45 - Mar 24 with 2303 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
DK.....
"'Course not.Â
But your standard of source and factual evidence needs to be much better before you or anyone else takes them seriously." [Post edited 24 Mar 2019 22:46]
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| Red lines! on 22:49 - Mar 24 with 2294 views | J2BLUE |
| Red lines! on 22:31 - Mar 24 by jeera |
Good man.
What was it? |
...curry
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| Red lines! on 23:48 - Mar 24 with 2268 views | Seablu |
| Red lines! on 14:15 - Mar 24 by Leaky |
Sorry teacher, I will put my dunces hat on, and sit in the naughty chair.
Problem when your posting on a smart phone while putting a garden shed up |
You can't blame multitasking for an inability to communicate correctly in your mother tongue.
Thankfully for you and your fellow pondlife, it was just a case of putting a cross in a box.
50/50 chance of getting it right I guess. |  | | |
| Red lines! on 00:28 - Mar 25 with 2256 views | XYZ |
| Red lines! on 23:48 - Mar 24 by Seablu |
You can't blame multitasking for an inability to communicate correctly in your mother tongue.
Thankfully for you and your fellow pondlife, it was just a case of putting a cross in a box.
50/50 chance of getting it right I guess. |
That's a bit harsh. Keep it clean. | | | |
| Red lines! on 08:50 - Mar 25 with 2205 views | itfcjoe |
| Red lines! on 12:39 - Mar 24 by Herbivore |
It's the fault of people who voted leave, sure. |
Not for me, it's the fault of those selling them the dreams of what Brexit could be like knowing full well it couldn't be achieved.
Blame the liars, not the lied to. |  |
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| Red lines! on 08:52 - Mar 25 with 2198 views | Herbivore |
| Red lines! on 08:50 - Mar 25 by itfcjoe |
Not for me, it's the fault of those selling them the dreams of what Brexit could be like knowing full well it couldn't be achieved.
Blame the liars, not the lied to. |
People need to take some responsibility. The lies were pretty obvious and easily exposed but people couldn't be arsed to educate themselves. Ask yourself why it was the morning after the referendum that there was a sudden spike in people Googling to find out what the EU actually does. Bit late then. | |
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| Red lines! on 08:55 - Mar 25 with 2195 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Red lines! on 08:52 - Mar 25 by Herbivore |
People need to take some responsibility. The lies were pretty obvious and easily exposed but people couldn't be arsed to educate themselves. Ask yourself why it was the morning after the referendum that there was a sudden spike in people Googling to find out what the EU actually does. Bit late then. |
That was the Remainers stupid. | |
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| Red lines! on 09:00 - Mar 25 with 2194 views | itfcjoe |
It's clearly true if any experience in the industries involved.
We employ a Romanian labourer, he's on decent money now (above living wage etc) but when we were working on a big site this guys brother was desperate for him to get over.
At one point there were 4 guys working for us as and when needed, and being paid minimum wage which was around £6.50 and they were self employed without the right tax code and paying 30% tax (which they got back eventually). This is effectively sero hour contracts work.
We didn't have the need for them, and kept 2 on longer term and employed them properly afterwards - but most employers don't. We get inundated with offers of Romanians where agencies will place them with you at minimum wage, and take their cut out of it.
Not all employers do the same, there are plenty who when wants more money and to stay longer will just bin them off and get the next one in | |
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| Red lines! on 09:04 - Mar 25 with 2188 views | itfcjoe |
| Red lines! on 08:52 - Mar 25 by Herbivore |
People need to take some responsibility. The lies were pretty obvious and easily exposed but people couldn't be arsed to educate themselves. Ask yourself why it was the morning after the referendum that there was a sudden spike in people Googling to find out what the EU actually does. Bit late then. |
People should be able to trust politicians, they shouldn't need to fact check them and their should be standards in place for when they outright lie.
Johnson's lies about the Turkey situation, and subsequent denial when it is on film FFS should see him sanctioned. | |
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| Red lines! on 09:17 - Mar 25 with 2175 views | Darth_Koont |
Much better source, thanks.
They didn't use the LSE study that shows that job losses wage drops were comparable in regions without a lot of immigrants. The study also covers the late 90s-early 2000s when wages increased despite the biggest influx of immigrants. All in all, the overall rise and fall of wages was more clearly linked to the state of the economy and particularly the financial crash of 2008.
But I take on board the Fullfact sources too. Clearly it has affected wages in certain industries like pickles mentions but if you read the report not by much and the greatest effect is on earlier immigrants.
As Fullfact states "Declines in the wages and employment of UK-born workers in the short run can be offset by rising wages and employment in the long run."
So the answer is somewhere in between no effect to some effect on certain workers and industries. But the blanket claim that "Immigrants take jobs and suppress wages" doesn't really work. |  |
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