| Evans interview with Watson 06:34 - Jan 30 with 3320 views | groovyASH |
Much more of the same, nothing new learnt.
The sad truth is when ME started he was a competitive fish, his financial backing were days where £6- 10m could get you promoted.
Now he is a very small fish. ME has not changed, rather football has massively changed around him and he is swept along with no ability to be able to reverse the tide alone.
I don't think I really blame him too much. Losing the best of the crop of youngsters etc. is something he has no power to reverse.
The one thing I cannot forgive him is the appointment of Hurst. Yes we all wanted a young upcoming manager with potential, but what we want is the 'job application '. Who you appoint is the 'interview. ME interviewed Hurst and decided he was the best candidate. Hurst was missing so much that was essential (the bigger picture other than an immediate rebuild for example, and his limited football network as another) that ME should have taken into account before appointing him. |  |
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| Evans interview with Watson on 06:41 - Jan 30 with 3287 views | Benters2 |
Sadly we sold our besties and didnt replace them like for like.
The End. |  | | |
| Evans interview with Watson on 07:20 - Jan 30 with 3236 views | hatch |
I’m always interested when members post about how Hurst was a mistake or are angry with ME for it, despite many backing the decision at the time. Im sure ME has the same hindsight view as us (although it’s often phrased to be more about the decisions after the appointment than the appointment itself). As an exercise I thought I’d check to see your view back in the summer and it appears you backed the decision then, Ash - (I’m not sure how to quote the post direct)
" His Style creates goals" on 19:55 - May 25 with 1380 views groovyASH
It's interesting and ironic that most people who wanted us to select an up and coming lower league manager now feel the need to question the style of football.
The vast majority of lower league teams do not play pretty football. We were never going to get a pretty football manager from league 1 or league 2, or the Scottish Championship for that matter.
The best we were going to get was an adaptable manager with potential which is what we get more from Hurst than Ross IMHO.”
Not looking to pick on your specifically, but it’s just an example where I think people forget that Hurst was unanimously in the top 5 choices for most fans at the time. I’m not angry at ME for appointing him as I backed the strategy at the time. |  | | |
| Evans interview with Watson on 07:23 - Jan 30 with 3222 views | christiand |
| Evans interview with Watson on 06:41 - Jan 30 by Benters2 |
Sadly we sold our besties and didnt replace them like for like.
The End. |
And that's it in a nutshell Benters! Just very naive from ME and PH. [Post edited 30 Jan 2019 7:23]
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| Evans interview with Watson on 07:29 - Jan 30 with 3209 views | Superblue95 |
You say Evans hasn’t changed but he has. He’s reduced the amount of money he invests on player transfers at a time when the market meant he needed to invest more to stay competitive.
I also agree with Hatch with regards what you’ve said about Hurst. The majority backed him and wanted him (although there were a few exceptions) and this board likely would have gone into meltdown if we didn’t appoint him after the interview so I wouldn’t criticise Evans for that |  |
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| Evans interview with Watson on 07:40 - Jan 30 with 3180 views | sparks |
| Evans interview with Watson on 07:29 - Jan 30 by Superblue95 |
You say Evans hasn’t changed but he has. He’s reduced the amount of money he invests on player transfers at a time when the market meant he needed to invest more to stay competitive.
I also agree with Hatch with regards what you’ve said about Hurst. The majority backed him and wanted him (although there were a few exceptions) and this board likely would have gone into meltdown if we didn’t appoint him after the interview so I wouldn’t criticise Evans for that |
Reduced the money spent on transfers? He spent more last year than the previous year. You cant ignore the overall cost of players.
I suspect the accounts this year will show a bigger loss than last year too... |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Evans interview with Watson on 08:01 - Jan 30 with 3135 views | Superblue95 |
| Evans interview with Watson on 07:40 - Jan 30 by sparks |
Reduced the money spent on transfers? He spent more last year than the previous year. You cant ignore the overall cost of players.
I suspect the accounts this year will show a bigger loss than last year too... |
I meant more that he spends less in recent years than when he first took over. His choice but cashing in on top players and us having to replace them with substandard cheap options has put us in this position. Mick for all his faults was savvy enough to make it work. Hurst was not | |
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| Evans interview with Watson on 08:02 - Jan 30 with 3132 views | sparks |
| Evans interview with Watson on 08:01 - Jan 30 by Superblue95 |
I meant more that he spends less in recent years than when he first took over. His choice but cashing in on top players and us having to replace them with substandard cheap options has put us in this position. Mick for all his faults was savvy enough to make it work. Hurst was not |
He really hasnt spent very much less. But I udnerstand what you say | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Evans interview with Watson on 08:06 - Jan 30 with 3122 views | Benters2 |
| Evans interview with Watson on 07:23 - Jan 30 by christiand |
And that's it in a nutshell Benters! Just very naive from ME and PH. [Post edited 30 Jan 2019 7:23]
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Blimey i got something right. | | | |
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| Evans interview with Watson on 08:12 - Jan 30 with 3097 views | jjblue84 |
There’s a bit more detail here on how not to run a football club, prospective buyers take note! |  | | |
| Evans interview with Watson on 08:33 - Jan 30 with 3051 views | groovyASH |
| Evans interview with Watson on 07:20 - Jan 30 by hatch |
I’m always interested when members post about how Hurst was a mistake or are angry with ME for it, despite many backing the decision at the time. Im sure ME has the same hindsight view as us (although it’s often phrased to be more about the decisions after the appointment than the appointment itself). As an exercise I thought I’d check to see your view back in the summer and it appears you backed the decision then, Ash - (I’m not sure how to quote the post direct)
" His Style creates goals" on 19:55 - May 25 with 1380 views groovyASH
It's interesting and ironic that most people who wanted us to select an up and coming lower league manager now feel the need to question the style of football.
The vast majority of lower league teams do not play pretty football. We were never going to get a pretty football manager from league 1 or league 2, or the Scottish Championship for that matter.
The best we were going to get was an adaptable manager with potential which is what we get more from Hurst than Ross IMHO.”
Not looking to pick on your specifically, but it’s just an example where I think people forget that Hurst was unanimously in the top 5 choices for most fans at the time. I’m not angry at ME for appointing him as I backed the strategy at the time. |
I wasn't questioning the style of football. I agree the benefit of hindsight helps massively. I did back the Hurst type of model for manager, and on the surface he seemed a decent candidate.
We do not have the benefit of knowing what Hurst did in an interview setting to get the job, but it surely had to be more substantial than ticking the box for what the fans wanted. | |
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| Evans interview with Watson on 09:49 - Jan 30 with 2945 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Evans interview with Watson on 08:02 - Jan 30 by sparks |
He really hasnt spent very much less. But I udnerstand what you say |
He quite clearly has though. Net spend by season below - pretty clear that after his first few transfer windows the budget reduced considerably and became more reliant on selling players
07/08 (half season) £4m
08/09 £3.6m
09/10 £6m
10/11 -£2m
11/12 -£5m
12/13 £2.5m
13/14 £0
14/15 -£4m
15/16 -£7.5m
16/17 -£1.5m
17/18 £500k
18/19 -£3.75m
Doesn’t include loans - but we’ve pretty consistently loaned players during that time so won’t impct the trend
It’s also clear from the annual accounts that Evans propping up of the club has reduced [Post edited 30 Jan 2019 9:50]
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| Evans interview with Watson on 09:53 - Jan 30 with 2931 views | Bluefish |
| Evans interview with Watson on 09:49 - Jan 30 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
He quite clearly has though. Net spend by season below - pretty clear that after his first few transfer windows the budget reduced considerably and became more reliant on selling players
07/08 (half season) £4m
08/09 £3.6m
09/10 £6m
10/11 -£2m
11/12 -£5m
12/13 £2.5m
13/14 £0
14/15 -£4m
15/16 -£7.5m
16/17 -£1.5m
17/18 £500k
18/19 -£3.75m
Doesn’t include loans - but we’ve pretty consistently loaned players during that time so won’t impct the trend
It’s also clear from the annual accounts that Evans propping up of the club has reduced [Post edited 30 Jan 2019 9:50]
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Where are these numbers from and what are they based on? |  |
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| Evans interview with Watson on 09:57 - Jan 30 with 2932 views | Guthrum |
What is there new to learn? Have you considered that Evans is probably being entirely honest about his approach and feelings?
What was there about Hurst's previous career which could have given any clue he would be so far out of his depth? If merely lack of Championship experience, then that goes for every other up-and-coming young manager - the likes of which are much sought after and many on here were crying out for.
Hurst had a string of successes, often on limited budgets, turning around struggling Shrewsbury to get to the League One play-offs the following season. He had ideas about a more flowing style of play, keeping the ball on the ground. If there was no hint of previous problems and he interviewed well, upon what basis (other than hindsight) would you have rejected him?
There is a phrase: "being promoted beyond his level of competence", in which someone with a previously excellent record suddenly fails when given a higher powered job. |  |
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| Evans interview with Watson on 10:05 - Jan 30 with 2900 views | agentp |
| Evans interview with Watson on 09:53 - Jan 30 by Bluefish |
Where are these numbers from and what are they based on? |
Quite. They are bizarre. He needs to try again and this time include all the players.
His loan argument is also outdated. Loan fees are rocketing as the bigger clubs now hoard so many players. | |
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| Evans interview with Watson on 10:13 - Jan 30 with 2881 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Evans interview with Watson on 09:57 - Jan 30 by Guthrum |
What is there new to learn? Have you considered that Evans is probably being entirely honest about his approach and feelings?
What was there about Hurst's previous career which could have given any clue he would be so far out of his depth? If merely lack of Championship experience, then that goes for every other up-and-coming young manager - the likes of which are much sought after and many on here were crying out for.
Hurst had a string of successes, often on limited budgets, turning around struggling Shrewsbury to get to the League One play-offs the following season. He had ideas about a more flowing style of play, keeping the ball on the ground. If there was no hint of previous problems and he interviewed well, upon what basis (other than hindsight) would you have rejected him?
There is a phrase: "being promoted beyond his level of competence", in which someone with a previously excellent record suddenly fails when given a higher powered job. |
This Hurst thing is the biggest 'mistake' that makes me laugh
Take away the reponses I used to get about lack of content, BUT the general feeling I had over Hurst was quite clear, there were barely any posters who agreed with the negative feeling and " quite clearly the best up and coming manager for us" etc were the responses I got.
Now, it's Evans's biggest mistake. Yes for me it is. BUT all those posters who claimed at the time Hurst was fantastic, can't sit here now and 'Blame' Evans.
What I love is even in this interview and talking about levels of investment, he clearly outlines how funds have been made available but used in different ways by different managers, yet people this morning even after reading the interview are still saying he's not invested.
The issue we have is he went with Hurst and we find ourselves where we are. But just think about it overall, HAD we gone with another solid experienced manager, we probably wouldn't be sitting bottom 3 let alone bottom, and we have some very exciting youngsters coming through - So the plan Evans had, would be working, it's just all gone wrong.
Now though, rebuilding with Lambert, I can see the Evans plan working really well with his current levels of investment over the new few years. |  |
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| Evans interview with Watson on 13:09 - Jan 30 with 2722 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Evans interview with Watson on 09:53 - Jan 30 by Bluefish |
Where are these numbers from and what are they based on? |
Transfer fee net spend - from looking at our signings/sales each season and adding together reported fees. There may be a couple of fees which are a bit out but should be there or thereabouts | |
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| Evans interview with Watson on 13:12 - Jan 30 with 2708 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Evans interview with Watson on 10:05 - Jan 30 by agentp |
Quite. They are bizarre. He needs to try again and this time include all the players.
His loan argument is also outdated. Loan fees are rocketing as the bigger clubs now hoard so many players. |
Yeah, I’m sure we got Gio for free | |
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| Evans interview with Watson on 13:14 - Jan 30 with 2692 views | Bluefish |
| Evans interview with Watson on 13:09 - Jan 30 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Transfer fee net spend - from looking at our signings/sales each season and adding together reported fees. There may be a couple of fees which are a bit out but should be there or thereabouts |
Utterly pointless then. Marcus has just explained about wages replacing fees and they are only reported figures and miss the large loan fees and agent and signing on fees they often big parts of a free transfer | |
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| Evans interview with Watson on 13:28 - Jan 30 with 2651 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Evans interview with Watson on 13:14 - Jan 30 by Bluefish |
Utterly pointless then. Marcus has just explained about wages replacing fees and they are only reported figures and miss the large loan fees and agent and signing on fees they often big parts of a free transfer |
As noted, loan fees aren’t included as we’ve loaned players consistently during this period - from Guo to Bullard to DJ Campbell and so on. Same with agent fees etc - although these still exist for all signings. Ultimately just used transfer fees to illustrate the point as these are the most readily available numbers
Whichever way you slice it though Evans is investing less - which is why his £6m annual loss is no more. But if Marcus said otherwise in an interview I guess that is that  | |
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| Evans interview with Watson on 16:32 - Jan 30 with 2514 views | Jonnosdreadlocks |
| Evans interview with Watson on 06:41 - Jan 30 by Benters2 |
Sadly we sold our besties and didnt replace them like for like.
The End. |
in a nutshell. |  |
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| Evans interview with Watson on 18:01 - Jan 30 with 2444 views | ScottCandage |
| Evans interview with Watson on 06:41 - Jan 30 by Benters2 |
Sadly we sold our besties and didnt replace them like for like.
The End. |
What concerned me was the paragraph that he goes on about the bargains we've gotten over the years, and pretty much EXPECTS the bargain to be the baseline.
I kind of disagree with that thinking. Please excuse the baseball analogy, but that's like demanding that a player hit a 500 foot homerun, when a 400 footer would still be a homer. Mings, Waghorn & Skuse, et al., were the rare 500-foot blasts.
Evans needs to realize that they don't happen everyday. Yeah, we'd all love to make loads of cash on our transfers, but don't miss the forest for the trees. Getting in quality players to win games is the primary goal, and the value received at the end should merely be a secondary benefit. |  | | |
| Evans interview with Watson on 01:43 - Jan 31 with 2244 views | braveblue |
| Evans interview with Watson on 07:20 - Jan 30 by hatch |
I’m always interested when members post about how Hurst was a mistake or are angry with ME for it, despite many backing the decision at the time. Im sure ME has the same hindsight view as us (although it’s often phrased to be more about the decisions after the appointment than the appointment itself). As an exercise I thought I’d check to see your view back in the summer and it appears you backed the decision then, Ash - (I’m not sure how to quote the post direct)
" His Style creates goals" on 19:55 - May 25 with 1380 views groovyASH
It's interesting and ironic that most people who wanted us to select an up and coming lower league manager now feel the need to question the style of football.
The vast majority of lower league teams do not play pretty football. We were never going to get a pretty football manager from league 1 or league 2, or the Scottish Championship for that matter.
The best we were going to get was an adaptable manager with potential which is what we get more from Hurst than Ross IMHO.”
Not looking to pick on your specifically, but it’s just an example where I think people forget that Hurst was unanimously in the top 5 choices for most fans at the time. I’m not angry at ME for appointing him as I backed the strategy at the time. |
The combination of apppointing him and selling out best players was the issue. Don’t think many fans backed that idea. | | | |
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