| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently 09:19 - Apr 11 with 11464 views | CaptainObvious |
make you wonder how much experience our youth have missed out on because McCarthy only ever plays them unless all the older players injured. There's no way Cotter would have started last night until Chambers and Webster were injured, and had they not been, he would never have got that confidence-building match under his belt |  |
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| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 09:21 - Apr 11 with 5890 views | DanFord |
See also the performance at Palace. That can happen in a one off. You can't chuck 11 kids in and expect them to avoid relegation but every other club seems able to use one or two of their outstanding youth players at any one time and mould them into first teamers. As you have rightly said Mick uses kids when he has no other option because the proper blokes were injured and its disappointing because the enthusiasm and fearlessness is sometimes much more effective than a veteran going through the motions in his 412th career appearance when they've already hit their ability ceiling. |  |
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| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 09:23 - Apr 11 with 5856 views | CaptainObvious |
| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 09:21 - Apr 11 by DanFord |
See also the performance at Palace. That can happen in a one off. You can't chuck 11 kids in and expect them to avoid relegation but every other club seems able to use one or two of their outstanding youth players at any one time and mould them into first teamers. As you have rightly said Mick uses kids when he has no other option because the proper blokes were injured and its disappointing because the enthusiasm and fearlessness is sometimes much more effective than a veteran going through the motions in his 412th career appearance when they've already hit their ability ceiling. |
Yes i was also going to mention that. I know it was League Cup which gives a bit of a friendly status aspect to the game, but the entire team were kids and gave good accounts of themselves. | |
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| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 09:28 - Apr 11 with 5833 views | Superfrans |
| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 09:21 - Apr 11 by DanFord |
See also the performance at Palace. That can happen in a one off. You can't chuck 11 kids in and expect them to avoid relegation but every other club seems able to use one or two of their outstanding youth players at any one time and mould them into first teamers. As you have rightly said Mick uses kids when he has no other option because the proper blokes were injured and its disappointing because the enthusiasm and fearlessness is sometimes much more effective than a veteran going through the motions in his 412th career appearance when they've already hit their ability ceiling. |
We actually have a team with one of her youngest average ages in the division. |  |
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| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 09:30 - Apr 11 with 5793 views | No9 |
| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 09:23 - Apr 11 by CaptainObvious |
Yes i was also going to mention that. I know it was League Cup which gives a bit of a friendly status aspect to the game, but the entire team were kids and gave good accounts of themselves. |
& Palace had to call up the cavalry to salvage the game | | | |
| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 09:32 - Apr 11 with 5801 views | DanTheMan |
Didn't someone check some stats earlier this season which suggested we play our youngsters more on average than basically everyone in the division?
Might have been Joe. |  |
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| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 09:34 - Apr 11 with 5768 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 09:32 - Apr 11 by DanTheMan |
Didn't someone check some stats earlier this season which suggested we play our youngsters more on average than basically everyone in the division?
Might have been Joe. |
Yes. I think it was Joe. Mick has always given youngsters a chance. |  |
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| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 09:37 - Apr 11 with 5778 views | DanTheMan |
| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 09:34 - Apr 11 by GlasgowBlue |
Yes. I think it was Joe. Mick has always given youngsters a chance. |
Found it.
Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? by itfcjoe 25 May 2017 12:59I hear all this talk about Mick not giving youngsters a chance, and it seems too many posters aren't looking at the league as a whole. So I have tried to....
All stats are minutes on the pitch in the league only, and all ages are at today's date
U20 players
Barnsley - 6,750 minutes (5,063 by loanees)
Nottingham Forest - 5,185 minutes
Bristol City - 3,844 minutes (3,425 by loanees)
Birmingham - 3,680 minutes (1,007 by loanees)
Huddersfield - 3,513 minutes (2,310 by loanees)
Ipswich - 3,399 minutes
So only 5 clubs have players U20 getting more game time than at Portman Road, and only 1 club (Forest) has more game time given to U20 players that aren't on loan at the club.
Players aged 21-22
Preston North End - 8,412 minutes (682 by loanees)
Forest - 8,129 minutes (1,649 by loanees)
Reading - 6,811 minutes
Leeds - 5,854 minutes (1,284 by loanees)
Ipswich - 5,465 minutes (295 by loanees)
So only 4 teams have given more minutes to 21 and 22 year olds, and if you take loan players out of it we move to 4th
Overall - all players U22
Forest - 13,314 minutes (1,649 by loanees)
Barnsley - 10,573 minutes (7,201 by loanees)
Ipswich - 8,864 minutes (295 by loanees)
So overall only 2 clubs are given youngsters more game time than us, and 1 of them is mostly using loanees.
The reality is that Notingham Forest are the only side who are getting more minutes out of young players than we are at all ages, when you take out loan players - other than them we are right up there in every category.
For the purpose of this exercise our young players are Dozzell, Emmanuel, Kenlock, Bishop (U20) and Grant, Digby, Webster and Ward (U22) - so a mixture of academy products and signings, but most importantly nearly all of them are tied down for at tleast the next couple of years.
Mick has many faults, but the stats show it is unfair to accuse him of not giving youngsters game time.
http://i64.tinypic.com/2zrkq55.png
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| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 09:59 - Apr 11 with 5693 views | CaptainObvious |
| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 09:32 - Apr 11 by DanTheMan |
Didn't someone check some stats earlier this season which suggested we play our youngsters more on average than basically everyone in the division?
Might have been Joe. |
"only ever plays them unless all the older players injured"
have we not had countless injured players this year? Do you think Downes and Nydam play if Adeyemi, Huws and Bishop stay fit? Do you think Cotter plays yesterday? Sears has had about 35 games with no assists and no goals, how many starts have Drinan, Morris and Folami made in the league? | |
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| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 10:01 - Apr 11 with 5672 views | itfcjoe |
| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 09:59 - Apr 11 by CaptainObvious |
"only ever plays them unless all the older players injured"
have we not had countless injured players this year? Do you think Downes and Nydam play if Adeyemi, Huws and Bishop stay fit? Do you think Cotter plays yesterday? Sears has had about 35 games with no assists and no goals, how many starts have Drinan, Morris and Folami made in the league? |
What about other clubs? Do you not think they do the same? |  |
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| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 10:07 - Apr 11 with 5632 views | Darth_Koont |
That's pretty much false.
And silly to hold MM to a far higher standard than any manager in the division and any recent Ipswich manager too. His record with youngsters is pretty exemplary. |  |
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| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 10:08 - Apr 11 with 5618 views | Kieran_Knows |
| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 09:37 - Apr 11 by DanTheMan |
Found it.
Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? by itfcjoe 25 May 2017 12:59I hear all this talk about Mick not giving youngsters a chance, and it seems too many posters aren't looking at the league as a whole. So I have tried to....
All stats are minutes on the pitch in the league only, and all ages are at today's date
U20 players
Barnsley - 6,750 minutes (5,063 by loanees)
Nottingham Forest - 5,185 minutes
Bristol City - 3,844 minutes (3,425 by loanees)
Birmingham - 3,680 minutes (1,007 by loanees)
Huddersfield - 3,513 minutes (2,310 by loanees)
Ipswich - 3,399 minutes
So only 5 clubs have players U20 getting more game time than at Portman Road, and only 1 club (Forest) has more game time given to U20 players that aren't on loan at the club.
Players aged 21-22
Preston North End - 8,412 minutes (682 by loanees)
Forest - 8,129 minutes (1,649 by loanees)
Reading - 6,811 minutes
Leeds - 5,854 minutes (1,284 by loanees)
Ipswich - 5,465 minutes (295 by loanees)
So only 4 teams have given more minutes to 21 and 22 year olds, and if you take loan players out of it we move to 4th
Overall - all players U22
Forest - 13,314 minutes (1,649 by loanees)
Barnsley - 10,573 minutes (7,201 by loanees)
Ipswich - 8,864 minutes (295 by loanees)
So overall only 2 clubs are given youngsters more game time than us, and 1 of them is mostly using loanees.
The reality is that Notingham Forest are the only side who are getting more minutes out of young players than we are at all ages, when you take out loan players - other than them we are right up there in every category.
For the purpose of this exercise our young players are Dozzell, Emmanuel, Kenlock, Bishop (U20) and Grant, Digby, Webster and Ward (U22) - so a mixture of academy products and signings, but most importantly nearly all of them are tied down for at tleast the next couple of years.
Mick has many faults, but the stats show it is unfair to accuse him of not giving youngsters game time.
http://i64.tinypic.com/2zrkq55.png
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NEVER, let facts get in the way. |  |
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| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 10:14 - Apr 11 with 5583 views | Guthrum |
| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 09:37 - Apr 11 by DanTheMan |
Found it.
Is Mick giving youngsters enough game time? by itfcjoe 25 May 2017 12:59I hear all this talk about Mick not giving youngsters a chance, and it seems too many posters aren't looking at the league as a whole. So I have tried to....
All stats are minutes on the pitch in the league only, and all ages are at today's date
U20 players
Barnsley - 6,750 minutes (5,063 by loanees)
Nottingham Forest - 5,185 minutes
Bristol City - 3,844 minutes (3,425 by loanees)
Birmingham - 3,680 minutes (1,007 by loanees)
Huddersfield - 3,513 minutes (2,310 by loanees)
Ipswich - 3,399 minutes
So only 5 clubs have players U20 getting more game time than at Portman Road, and only 1 club (Forest) has more game time given to U20 players that aren't on loan at the club.
Players aged 21-22
Preston North End - 8,412 minutes (682 by loanees)
Forest - 8,129 minutes (1,649 by loanees)
Reading - 6,811 minutes
Leeds - 5,854 minutes (1,284 by loanees)
Ipswich - 5,465 minutes (295 by loanees)
So only 4 teams have given more minutes to 21 and 22 year olds, and if you take loan players out of it we move to 4th
Overall - all players U22
Forest - 13,314 minutes (1,649 by loanees)
Barnsley - 10,573 minutes (7,201 by loanees)
Ipswich - 8,864 minutes (295 by loanees)
So overall only 2 clubs are given youngsters more game time than us, and 1 of them is mostly using loanees.
The reality is that Notingham Forest are the only side who are getting more minutes out of young players than we are at all ages, when you take out loan players - other than them we are right up there in every category.
For the purpose of this exercise our young players are Dozzell, Emmanuel, Kenlock, Bishop (U20) and Grant, Digby, Webster and Ward (U22) - so a mixture of academy products and signings, but most importantly nearly all of them are tied down for at tleast the next couple of years.
Mick has many faults, but the stats show it is unfair to accuse him of not giving youngsters game time.
http://i64.tinypic.com/2zrkq55.png
|
Then add to that the fact a number of our best youngsters have missed chunks of the season (in Dozzell's case, virtually all of it) through injury. |  |
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| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 10:40 - Apr 11 with 5517 views | CaptainObvious |
| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 10:07 - Apr 11 by Darth_Koont |
That's pretty much false.
And silly to hold MM to a far higher standard than any manager in the division and any recent Ipswich manager too. His record with youngsters is pretty exemplary. |
Which bit is false? Do you think Cotter would have started yesterday without our central defensive injuries? | |
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| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 10:41 - Apr 11 with 5513 views | CaptainObvious |
| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 10:01 - Apr 11 by itfcjoe |
What about other clubs? Do you not think they do the same? |
I'm not talking about other clubs. | |
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| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 10:42 - Apr 11 with 5503 views | CaptainObvious |
| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 10:08 - Apr 11 by Kieran_Knows |
NEVER, let facts get in the way. |
These facts would answer the point "Mick never plays young players". Unfortunately that wasn't the point i made. | |
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| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 10:42 - Apr 11 with 5498 views | SomethingBlue |
But that goes for football everywhere. Most youngsters get their chances in a situation like that. It's a misreading — being kind — to suggest McCarthy has stood in their way, and in fact I'd suggest he has a better record than many. | |
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| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 10:44 - Apr 11 with 5483 views | christiand |
So true. For me, I'd like to see Folami, Cotter and Nydam to start in all of the last four games. What harm can it do? | |
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| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 10:44 - Apr 11 with 5485 views | CaptainObvious |
| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 10:42 - Apr 11 by SomethingBlue |
But that goes for football everywhere. Most youngsters get their chances in a situation like that. It's a misreading — being kind — to suggest McCarthy has stood in their way, and in fact I'd suggest he has a better record than many. |
Saying it happens elsewhere doesn't really counter my point. | |
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| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 10:45 - Apr 11 with 5480 views | SomethingBlue |
| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 10:41 - Apr 11 by CaptainObvious |
I'm not talking about other clubs. |
So you hold Ipswich Town to a standard separate from everyone else in the game? Lovely if it worked like that but it doesn't and never will. | |
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| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 10:45 - Apr 11 with 5478 views | SomethingBlue |
| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 10:44 - Apr 11 by CaptainObvious |
Saying it happens elsewhere doesn't really counter my point. |
But then I don't really understand your point, if it's meant to be related to Mick in particular. | |
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| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 10:46 - Apr 11 with 5468 views | CaptainObvious |
| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 10:45 - Apr 11 by SomethingBlue |
So you hold Ipswich Town to a standard separate from everyone else in the game? Lovely if it worked like that but it doesn't and never will. |
No i'm saying it's not relevant to the point.
For example, and quite crucially, "other clubs" are involved in promotion and relegation issues. | |
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| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 10:51 - Apr 11 with 5445 views | SomethingBlue |
| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 10:46 - Apr 11 by CaptainObvious |
No i'm saying it's not relevant to the point.
For example, and quite crucially, "other clubs" are involved in promotion and relegation issues. |
I suspect you'll just move the goalposts around however you want them so this isn't worth my time. | |
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| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 10:55 - Apr 11 with 5433 views | CaptainObvious |
| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 10:45 - Apr 11 by SomethingBlue |
But then I don't really understand your point, if it's meant to be related to Mick in particular. |
My point is that I think the risk of selecting a young player over an experienced player has not been taken,
given
a) the outcome of what we have seen from the young player when they have been selected through no other choice
b) the continued ineffectiveness of the senior player e.g. Douglas 2016/17, Sears 2017/18
c) the opportunity that has arisen several weeks ago from our league position of no chance of promotion or relegation. | |
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| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 11:01 - Apr 11 with 5409 views | CaptainObvious |
| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 10:51 - Apr 11 by SomethingBlue |
I suspect you'll just move the goalposts around however you want them so this isn't worth my time. |
Why can't people debate anymore without reverting to this childishness ? It really is a disease on here nowadays.. | |
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| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 11:07 - Apr 11 with 5377 views | soupytwist |
| The performances of Folami and Cotter recently on 10:44 - Apr 11 by christiand |
So true. For me, I'd like to see Folami, Cotter and Nydam to start in all of the last four games. What harm can it do? |
Selecting Folami will just block the development of talented youngster Ben Morris so we'd be no better off than if Dino Mick was still in charge. |  | | |
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