| This is where the asylum system fails 06:29 - Feb 2 with 4832 views | gtsb1966 |
Get your asylum application rejected twice and commit a sexual offence but allowed to stay as you say you've converted to Christianity. Then he does this. After committing the sexual offence he should have been removed immediately. I expect Rishi and the press to be all over this one.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68167793 |  | | |  |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 06:41 - Feb 2 with 2729 views | BrianTablet |
It's an election year. They'll be all over the outliers, pushing war and generally stirring up anger and resentment. |  |
| |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 07:31 - Feb 2 with 2621 views | Plums |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 06:41 - Feb 2 by BrianTablet |
It's an election year. They'll be all over the outliers, pushing war and generally stirring up anger and resentment. |
If only people had any idea who has been in charge of the Home Office through all this time. I reckon if the Strong and Stable guys had got in, it would have been different. |  |
| |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 07:33 - Feb 2 with 2616 views | Herbivore |
Rishi and his party were in government when all of this happened, so whilst they will no doubt look to score political points from an awful and very rare incident, it's a bit rich when it was the asylum system the Tories have overseen for 14 years that they will claim has 'failed'. That said, if his offense had been serious enough for him to be given a custodial sentence of 2 years he would have been deported, are we saying that any criminal charge justifies someone being deported to a country that is unsafe or would it only apply to particular offences? Where does the line get drawn? And if we had deported him, what if he'd gone on to attack women and children in Afghanistan? Would that somehow be a better outcome because it would have happened far away and we wouldn't have heard about it? Think it's too easy to look for simple answers when stuff like this happens when real life is rarely simple. |  |
| |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 07:42 - Feb 2 with 2585 views | Swansea_Blue |
I doubt you’ll hear a peep about this in the news.
It’s obviously is a failure. Although the othrr replies so far are also valid - stuff like this is election gold for the Tories and other openly xenophobic/racist parties. |  |
| |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 07:46 - Feb 2 with 2565 views | homer_123 |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 07:42 - Feb 2 by Swansea_Blue |
I doubt you’ll hear a peep about this in the news.
It’s obviously is a failure. Although the othrr replies so far are also valid - stuff like this is election gold for the Tories and other openly xenophobic/racist parties. |
It's widely reported actually.
Worth noting the frustration the Home Office have noted that this person had this application for asylum rejected and then was convicted of an offence, in the UK, and was then granted asylum. |  |
| |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 08:15 - Feb 2 with 2478 views | GlasgowBlue |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 07:33 - Feb 2 by Herbivore |
Rishi and his party were in government when all of this happened, so whilst they will no doubt look to score political points from an awful and very rare incident, it's a bit rich when it was the asylum system the Tories have overseen for 14 years that they will claim has 'failed'. That said, if his offense had been serious enough for him to be given a custodial sentence of 2 years he would have been deported, are we saying that any criminal charge justifies someone being deported to a country that is unsafe or would it only apply to particular offences? Where does the line get drawn? And if we had deported him, what if he'd gone on to attack women and children in Afghanistan? Would that somehow be a better outcome because it would have happened far away and we wouldn't have heard about it? Think it's too easy to look for simple answers when stuff like this happens when real life is rarely simple. |
You won’t find many people more pro immigration than me. But imo, if you commit a criminal offence of a violent nor sexual nature whilst awaiting the outcome of your asylum application then it should immediately be rejected with no right to appeal. |  |
| |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 08:25 - Feb 2 with 2434 views | lowhouseblue |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 08:15 - Feb 2 by GlasgowBlue |
You won’t find many people more pro immigration than me. But imo, if you commit a criminal offence of a violent nor sexual nature whilst awaiting the outcome of your asylum application then it should immediately be rejected with no right to appeal. |
i don't disagree with you. but would you extend that to returning someone to a country in which there was a genuine threat to their life? that's the test the ecj set in 2019. the issue then is (i) there will be people who you can't return because they have no where safe to go, so turning down their asylum application just means you have to issue a series of short-term leave to remain permissions (eg continuing until the taliban go away!); and (ii) people who can't claim to face a threat to life on return still try to argue it in any case and claims and appeals drag on for years with lawyers and campaigners dragging the process out. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| This is where the asylum system fails on 08:49 - Feb 2 with 2347 views | PrideOfTheEast |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 08:25 - Feb 2 by lowhouseblue |
i don't disagree with you. but would you extend that to returning someone to a country in which there was a genuine threat to their life? that's the test the ecj set in 2019. the issue then is (i) there will be people who you can't return because they have no where safe to go, so turning down their asylum application just means you have to issue a series of short-term leave to remain permissions (eg continuing until the taliban go away!); and (ii) people who can't claim to face a threat to life on return still try to argue it in any case and claims and appeals drag on for years with lawyers and campaigners dragging the process out. |
Why would I care if somebody who is making the lives of me and my family materially less safe is forced to leave the country to go somewhere where they are unsafe?
Obviously it’s miles more complex than that but it’s utterly ridiculous that this is allowed. |  | | |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 08:51 - Feb 2 with 2315 views | BloomBlue |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 08:15 - Feb 2 by GlasgowBlue |
You won’t find many people more pro immigration than me. But imo, if you commit a criminal offence of a violent nor sexual nature whilst awaiting the outcome of your asylum application then it should immediately be rejected with no right to appeal. |
It doesn't work that way, it's based on the threat. In this case (based on the TV news, so could be proved incorrect) he argued he had converted to Christianity and that would put him in danger if he returned.
I personally feel if you're an immigrant and commit a crime then that should override anything else and you should be sent back. If you're in danger in your home country and another country gives you a home, then you shouldn't commit a serious crime.
The Home Office isn't fit for purpose and like many public organisations it should be scrapped and started again. John Reid the Home secretary in 2006 said the same then when they had a load of immigrants who had been realised after serving time in prision for crimes committed and the HO didn't have a clue where they were. Nothing has changed. |  | | |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 08:53 - Feb 2 with 2290 views | Herbivore |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 08:49 - Feb 2 by PrideOfTheEast |
Why would I care if somebody who is making the lives of me and my family materially less safe is forced to leave the country to go somewhere where they are unsafe?
Obviously it’s miles more complex than that but it’s utterly ridiculous that this is allowed. |
You don't have to care but I think there's a question to be asked about whether we want to live in a society where being convicted of a crime not deemed worthy of a custodial sentence should lead to someone's basic human rights being forfeit. | |
| |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 08:55 - Feb 2 with 2279 views | lowhouseblue |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 08:49 - Feb 2 by PrideOfTheEast |
Why would I care if somebody who is making the lives of me and my family materially less safe is forced to leave the country to go somewhere where they are unsafe?
Obviously it’s miles more complex than that but it’s utterly ridiculous that this is allowed. |
yep that's the dilemma. we can of course put them in prison and treat them the same as any other offender who puts people here at risk. but would you send someone back to a country where there was a high probability of them being killed? and what level of crime would trigger that? [Post edited 2 Feb 8:58]
| |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 08:58 - Feb 2 with 2245 views | lowhouseblue |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 08:53 - Feb 2 by Herbivore |
You don't have to care but I think there's a question to be asked about whether we want to live in a society where being convicted of a crime not deemed worthy of a custodial sentence should lead to someone's basic human rights being forfeit. |
though the ecj sees the test as a realistic threat to life rather than any wider loss of "basic human rights". | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 09:00 - Feb 2 with 2215 views | Herbivore |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 08:58 - Feb 2 by lowhouseblue |
though the ecj sees the test as a realistic threat to life rather than any wider loss of "basic human rights". |
The right to life is a basic human right. | |
| |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 09:05 - Feb 2 with 2185 views | lowhouseblue |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 09:00 - Feb 2 by Herbivore |
The right to life is a basic human right. |
well yes indeed. but generally human rights (and asylum claims) are defined more broadly than just staying alive - the point here is that in the case of deporting asylum seekers who have committed crimes the ecj have defined the relevant risks very narrowly | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 09:11 - Feb 2 with 2143 views | DJR |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 08:51 - Feb 2 by BloomBlue |
It doesn't work that way, it's based on the threat. In this case (based on the TV news, so could be proved incorrect) he argued he had converted to Christianity and that would put him in danger if he returned.
I personally feel if you're an immigrant and commit a crime then that should override anything else and you should be sent back. If you're in danger in your home country and another country gives you a home, then you shouldn't commit a serious crime.
The Home Office isn't fit for purpose and like many public organisations it should be scrapped and started again. John Reid the Home secretary in 2006 said the same then when they had a load of immigrants who had been realised after serving time in prision for crimes committed and the HO didn't have a clue where they were. Nothing has changed. |
Properly resourced, the Home Office might have been able to do a better job, but the issue of asylum is a complex one, particularly given the numbers involved, the involvement of the ECHR, and the difficulty of keeping track of people, so I am not sure it is fair to pin the blame on the Home Office, or think the problem would be magically solved by starting again. [Post edited 2 Feb 9:13]
|  | | |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 11:21 - Feb 2 with 2013 views | Radlett_blue |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 08:55 - Feb 2 by lowhouseblue |
yep that's the dilemma. we can of course put them in prison and treat them the same as any other offender who puts people here at risk. but would you send someone back to a country where there was a high probability of them being killed? and what level of crime would trigger that? [Post edited 2 Feb 8:58]
|
"a high probability of them being killed"? Really?
And isn't it highly likely that this character's "conversion" to Christianity was a ruse to enable him to stay in Britain? Or he could have decided to come out as gay. Lots of ways of playing the system. |  |
| |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 11:28 - Feb 2 with 1983 views | DJR |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 09:11 - Feb 2 by DJR |
Properly resourced, the Home Office might have been able to do a better job, but the issue of asylum is a complex one, particularly given the numbers involved, the involvement of the ECHR, and the difficulty of keeping track of people, so I am not sure it is fair to pin the blame on the Home Office, or think the problem would be magically solved by starting again. [Post edited 2 Feb 9:13]
|
Another factor to take into account when it comes to Home Office workload, given the abolition of freedom of movement, is the visas needed for people to come here, which presumably require a lot more checks and the like when it comes to nationals from many countries outside the EU.
In the year to June 2023, immigration to the UK was 1.2 million, of whom 968,000 came from outside the EU. The figure for 2022 as a whole was even higher and a record. [Post edited 2 Feb 11:43]
| | | |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 11:51 - Feb 2 with 1920 views | PrideOfTheEast |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 11:21 - Feb 2 by Radlett_blue |
"a high probability of them being killed"? Really?
And isn't it highly likely that this character's "conversion" to Christianity was a ruse to enable him to stay in Britain? Or he could have decided to come out as gay. Lots of ways of playing the system. |
Indeed. Seems unlikely that he would have been killed if we deported the person in this case, and actually much more likely that he'd have committed further very serious offences here, which he has done. | | | |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 11:53 - Feb 2 with 1916 views | blueasfook |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 07:33 - Feb 2 by Herbivore |
Rishi and his party were in government when all of this happened, so whilst they will no doubt look to score political points from an awful and very rare incident, it's a bit rich when it was the asylum system the Tories have overseen for 14 years that they will claim has 'failed'. That said, if his offense had been serious enough for him to be given a custodial sentence of 2 years he would have been deported, are we saying that any criminal charge justifies someone being deported to a country that is unsafe or would it only apply to particular offences? Where does the line get drawn? And if we had deported him, what if he'd gone on to attack women and children in Afghanistan? Would that somehow be a better outcome because it would have happened far away and we wouldn't have heard about it? Think it's too easy to look for simple answers when stuff like this happens when real life is rarely simple. |
Perhaps you'd like to have a violent asylum seeker come stay with you?
Contact the Home Office and let them know you're volunteering. |  |
| |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 11:57 - Feb 2 with 1879 views | lowhouseblue |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 11:21 - Feb 2 by Radlett_blue |
"a high probability of them being killed"? Really?
And isn't it highly likely that this character's "conversion" to Christianity was a ruse to enable him to stay in Britain? Or he could have decided to come out as gay. Lots of ways of playing the system. |
i didn't mean this case but rather the general principle. i don't know what the real risk would be in this case. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 12:24 - Feb 2 with 1821 views | baxterbasics |
It's a sick joke. We've been promised the government would get a grip on this since at least 2010, they have completely failed.
At the same time we are making life harder for many immigrants who are prepared to work and contribute. While scumbags like this one find it all too easy to cheat the system and claim asylum.
It does seem like, to my limited understanding. the only way to deal with these cases properly requires ignoring or withdrawing from whichever international treaties, conventions and courts are being cited as why they get to stay. Herein lies the problem. I don't have the answer.
But we really should have better control of our borders - one of the Brexit bonuses I was promised. |  |
| |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 12:30 - Feb 2 with 1798 views | Herbivore |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 11:53 - Feb 2 by blueasfook |
Perhaps you'd like to have a violent asylum seeker come stay with you?
Contact the Home Office and let them know you're volunteering. |
Idiots gonna idiot, I guess. | |
| |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 12:32 - Feb 2 with 1771 views | Herbivore |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 12:24 - Feb 2 by baxterbasics |
It's a sick joke. We've been promised the government would get a grip on this since at least 2010, they have completely failed.
At the same time we are making life harder for many immigrants who are prepared to work and contribute. While scumbags like this one find it all too easy to cheat the system and claim asylum.
It does seem like, to my limited understanding. the only way to deal with these cases properly requires ignoring or withdrawing from whichever international treaties, conventions and courts are being cited as why they get to stay. Herein lies the problem. I don't have the answer.
But we really should have better control of our borders - one of the Brexit bonuses I was promised. |
Withdrawing from international treaties is not the behaviour of a serious, grown up liberal democracy. | |
| |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 12:39 - Feb 2 with 1745 views | BarcaBlue |
| This is where the asylum system fails on 11:53 - Feb 2 by blueasfook |
Perhaps you'd like to have a violent asylum seeker come stay with you?
Contact the Home Office and let them know you're volunteering. |
There's some decent discussion here and intelligent debate...then there's this. |  | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
. The rags must be having a field day over it.