| England record in knock-out stages of World Cup 11:01 - Dec 11 with 1524 views | DJR |
Robbie Savage mentioned this last night on Five Live, but since 1966 England have not beaten any really top draw teams in the knock-out stages of the World Cup.
The only victories in the knock-out stages since 1966 have been against Paraguay (1986), Belgium (1990), Cameroon (1990), Denmark (2002), Ecuador (2006), Columbia (2018), Sweden (2018) and Senegal (2022).
This points to England consistently being a top-8 team but not necessarily much better than that. [Post edited 11 Dec 2022 12:23]
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| England record in knock-out stages of World Cup on 11:43 - Dec 11 with 1420 views | MattinLondon |
I think in the past, until the mid 90s the English style of play was what hindered them from going forward. Plus, the old First Division meant that a lot of players went into tournaments shattered. And then, the England camp seemed to be divided by club loyalties which seems pathetic.
Think now, it’s just a case of playing against a better team - Southgate has progressed as a coach and has fostered a magnificent team spirit. There always seems to be an ‘if’ but I do think we might well have gone on to win ‘if’ Keane had scored that penalty. |  | | |
| England record in knock-out stages of World Cup on 11:52 - Dec 11 with 1391 views | BlueBadger |
| England record in knock-out stages of World Cup on 11:43 - Dec 11 by MattinLondon |
I think in the past, until the mid 90s the English style of play was what hindered them from going forward. Plus, the old First Division meant that a lot of players went into tournaments shattered. And then, the England camp seemed to be divided by club loyalties which seems pathetic.
Think now, it’s just a case of playing against a better team - Southgate has progressed as a coach and has fostered a magnificent team spirit. There always seems to be an ‘if’ but I do think we might well have gone on to win ‘if’ Keane had scored that penalty. |
The Famous One wasn't much in favour of turning out for his country, let alone England.... |  |
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| England record in knock-out stages of World Cup on 11:53 - Dec 11 with 1390 views | DJR |
| England record in knock-out stages of World Cup on 11:43 - Dec 11 by MattinLondon |
I think in the past, until the mid 90s the English style of play was what hindered them from going forward. Plus, the old First Division meant that a lot of players went into tournaments shattered. And then, the England camp seemed to be divided by club loyalties which seems pathetic.
Think now, it’s just a case of playing against a better team - Southgate has progressed as a coach and has fostered a magnificent team spirit. There always seems to be an ‘if’ but I do think we might well have gone on to win ‘if’ Keane had scored that penalty. |
I think it is also a case that England are now reaping the benefit of a much better coaching system. In other words, some of the players these days seem much better technically on the ball than the supposed superstars of Gerrard, Beckham and the like. I think there has also probably been much more of a levelling up of the standard of international football, which means there are probably less stand-out teams, increasing England's chances. | | | |
| England record in knock-out stages of World Cup on 11:58 - Dec 11 with 1375 views | MattinLondon |
| England record in knock-out stages of World Cup on 11:53 - Dec 11 by DJR |
I think it is also a case that England are now reaping the benefit of a much better coaching system. In other words, some of the players these days seem much better technically on the ball than the supposed superstars of Gerrard, Beckham and the like. I think there has also probably been much more of a levelling up of the standard of international football, which means there are probably less stand-out teams, increasing England's chances. |
We’ve been playing catch-up for a long time in terms of tactics and having players technically capable. Plus, most English players now don’t drink twenty pints regularly which helps them actually being fit. | | | |
| England record in knock-out stages of World Cup on 11:59 - Dec 11 with 1370 views | MattinLondon |
| England record in knock-out stages of World Cup on 11:52 - Dec 11 by BlueBadger |
The Famous One wasn't much in favour of turning out for his country, let alone England.... |
Who do you mean? | | | |
| England record in knock-out stages of World Cup on 12:01 - Dec 11 with 1363 views | J2BLUE |
| England record in knock-out stages of World Cup on 11:59 - Dec 11 by MattinLondon |
Who do you mean? |
The one who missed the penalty. Keane. |  |
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| England record in knock-out stages of World Cup on 12:01 - Dec 11 with 1359 views | Keno |
| England record in knock-out stages of World Cup on 11:58 - Dec 11 by MattinLondon |
We’ve been playing catch-up for a long time in terms of tactics and having players technically capable. Plus, most English players now don’t drink twenty pints regularly which helps them actually being fit. |
That said the dutch got back into their game the other in a way the Wimbledon crazy gang would have been proud of!! |  |
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| England record in knock-out stages of World Cup on 12:06 - Dec 11 with 1327 views | vilanovablue |
Colombia are missing from that list in 2018 and didn't we play Tunisia in the group stage? |  | | |
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| England record in knock-out stages of World Cup on 12:22 - Dec 11 with 1295 views | DJR |
| England record in knock-out stages of World Cup on 12:06 - Dec 11 by vilanovablue |
Colombia are missing from that list in 2018 and didn't we play Tunisia in the group stage? |
You're right. I had a list up to 2014, but misread Wikipedia for 2018.
I've updated the OP. [Post edited 11 Dec 2022 12:24]
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| England record in knock-out stages of World Cup on 21:36 - Dec 11 with 1083 views | GeoffSentence |
We have not bean beaten in open play that often in knockout stages either, just 4 times since 66, unbeaten in '82, knocked out on penalties 3 times, and one of the open play defeats was 'the hand of god'. |  |
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| England record in knock-out stages of World Cup on 07:27 - Dec 12 with 936 views | DJR |
| England record in knock-out stages of World Cup on 21:36 - Dec 11 by GeoffSentence |
We have not bean beaten in open play that often in knockout stages either, just 4 times since 66, unbeaten in '82, knocked out on penalties 3 times, and one of the open play defeats was 'the hand of god'. |
That may be true, but on the other hand, if a team is to win the World Cup they presumably must beat a decent team at some stage in open play. After all, other countries have managed it. | | | |
| England record in knock-out stages of World Cup on 12:24 - Dec 12 with 735 views | Radlett_blue |
| England record in knock-out stages of World Cup on 21:36 - Dec 11 by GeoffSentence |
We have not bean beaten in open play that often in knockout stages either, just 4 times since 66, unbeaten in '82, knocked out on penalties 3 times, and one of the open play defeats was 'the hand of god'. |
Exactly, all games with very narrow margins that can be decided by 1 error or refereeing decision so wrong to read too much into a small sample of results from knock-out international football. That's actually the beauty of the game - Croatia can beat Brazil, Morocco can beat Spain. It makes it equally frustrating & fascinating.
The big plus is that English players no longer look light years behind their opponents in terms of technical skill.
Whether Southgate is the right man is more complex. England have been competitive & possible winners at their last 3 finals, but is that because this crop of players are outstanding, rather than because Southgate is a good coach? I think the decision should be based on if there are viable alternatives who would probably do better. I don't want a hugely paid mercenary such as Pochettino or Tuchel. Club success doesn't mean a manager will be a good international coach as the job is so different. I prefer an English candidate, but would Howe or Potter (1) want the job or (2) clearly do a better job than Southgate? |  |
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