| Rebecca Welch 23:00 - Dec 14 with 2141 views | blueislander |
Going to ref a Premier game. General opinion was very good when she reffed us last season wasn’t it? |  | | |  |
| Rebecca Welch on 23:04 - Dec 14 with 2111 views | lowhouseblue |
it's good, but the astonishing fact from the bbc article is that there hasn't been a non-white referee in the premier league for well over a decade. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Rebecca Welch on 23:08 - Dec 14 with 2081 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Rebecca Welch on 23:04 - Dec 14 by lowhouseblue |
it's good, but the astonishing fact from the bbc article is that there hasn't been a non-white referee in the premier league for well over a decade. |
Lets be clear. That is highly unlikely to be discrimination in terms of choosing refs.
There will of course be some underlying cultural and potentially discriminatory issues way back in the process in terms of how refs decide to start out. | | | |
| Rebecca Welch on 23:13 - Dec 14 with 2043 views | lowhouseblue |
| Rebecca Welch on 23:08 - Dec 14 by redrickstuhaart |
Lets be clear. That is highly unlikely to be discrimination in terms of choosing refs.
There will of course be some underlying cultural and potentially discriminatory issues way back in the process in terms of how refs decide to start out. |
there's a drop off from 8% non-white refs across football to only 3% in the professional game. what's your clear explanation? | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Rebecca Welch on 23:32 - Dec 14 with 1952 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Rebecca Welch on 23:13 - Dec 14 by lowhouseblue |
there's a drop off from 8% non-white refs across football to only 3% in the professional game. what's your clear explanation? |
No idea. | | | |
| Rebecca Welch on 04:43 - Dec 15 with 1785 views | IPS_wich |
If she was the female ref we had last season then I'd say well deserved. She was one of the best we had last year. I really hope she does well. | | | |
| Rebecca Welch on 06:36 - Dec 15 with 1698 views | NeedhamChris |
Joey's head is going to explode
Edit: or apparently not [Post edited 15 Dec 2023 6:49]
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| Rebecca Welch on 07:15 - Dec 15 with 1624 views | Rimsy |
This is all Sky's doing. Their ongoing campaign to push the woman's game, with female commentators and pundits on the men's game. Not that I'm against a lady refereeing a mens game. |  |
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| Rebecca Welch on 07:17 - Dec 15 with 1605 views | NeedhamChris |
| Rebecca Welch on 07:15 - Dec 15 by Rimsy |
This is all Sky's doing. Their ongoing campaign to push the woman's game, with female commentators and pundits on the men's game. Not that I'm against a lady refereeing a mens game. |
It's funny, I was watching a WSL game last week and no-one is getting upset about the men commentating. | |
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| Rebecca Welch on 07:18 - Dec 15 with 1598 views | gtsb1966 |
| Rebecca Welch on 23:04 - Dec 14 by lowhouseblue |
it's good, but the astonishing fact from the bbc article is that there hasn't been a non-white referee in the premier league for well over a decade. |
Bring back Alf Buksh. |  | | |
| Rebecca Welch on 07:19 - Dec 15 with 1594 views | ITFC_Forever |
Yes, she’s the ref from MK away, and she was probably the best ref we had all season by a distance. |  |
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| Rebecca Welch on 08:25 - Dec 15 with 1460 views | StokieBlue |
| Rebecca Welch on 23:13 - Dec 14 by lowhouseblue |
there's a drop off from 8% non-white refs across football to only 3% in the professional game. what's your clear explanation? |
Seems rather disingenuous to be using stats and demanding an explanation for those stats in this thread whilst totally dismissing the request for stats around the black death on the other thread.
Should these debates be evidence driven or not?
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Rebecca Welch on 08:33 - Dec 15 with 1427 views | redrickstuhaart |
Unless that deals with the point at which the balance shifts, and indeed whether it shifts at all (or whether the numbers of BAME folks electing to be refs is very small) it probably tells us little. No time to look at it now.
As a very regular attendee at non league football, I can only think of one Asian guy who officiates in my area. A couple of women. Thats about it. | | | |
| Rebecca Welch on 08:34 - Dec 15 with 1427 views | Rimsy |
| Rebecca Welch on 07:17 - Dec 15 by NeedhamChris |
It's funny, I was watching a WSL game last week and no-one is getting upset about the men commentating. |
I'm not upset about it either. Just saying it's Sky pushing the ladies game. (probably to build interest in the event they lose more PL games going forward. | |
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| Rebecca Welch on 10:05 - Dec 15 with 1303 views | BlueBadger |
| Rebecca Welch on 23:13 - Dec 14 by lowhouseblue |
there's a drop off from 8% non-white refs across football to only 3% in the professional game. what's your clear explanation? |
They're put off by all the owners in football. It must be the only explanation. |  |
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| Rebecca Welch on 10:10 - Dec 15 with 1276 views | lowhouseblue |
| Rebecca Welch on 08:25 - Dec 15 by StokieBlue |
Seems rather disingenuous to be using stats and demanding an explanation for those stats in this thread whilst totally dismissing the request for stats around the black death on the other thread.
Should these debates be evidence driven or not?
SB |
as i tried to explain, discussion involves varied forms of exposition - eg, rhetoric, precedent, analogy, claims of the moral ground, logical deconstruction, and, yes, statistics. i wasn't seeking to exclude statistics, just saying that it isn't the only basis for discussion and debate. jeez. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Rebecca Welch on 10:11 - Dec 15 with 1267 views | lowhouseblue |
| Rebecca Welch on 10:05 - Dec 15 by BlueBadger |
They're put off by all the owners in football. It must be the only explanation. |
sorry, i haven't understood the joke?? | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Rebecca Welch on 10:17 - Dec 15 with 1218 views | StokieBlue |
| Rebecca Welch on 10:10 - Dec 15 by lowhouseblue |
as i tried to explain, discussion involves varied forms of exposition - eg, rhetoric, precedent, analogy, claims of the moral ground, logical deconstruction, and, yes, statistics. i wasn't seeking to exclude statistics, just saying that it isn't the only basis for discussion and debate. jeez. |
Those forms don't carry equal weight though and you were seemingly implying that they did.
For instance, I highlighted how ideology isn't equal to evidence and you ignored the point.
If you agree that evidence is important in a debate why did you dismiss it with your rather pathetic "whatever" in the other thread?
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Rebecca Welch on 10:17 - Dec 15 with 1218 views | BlueBadger |
| Rebecca Welch on 10:11 - Dec 15 by lowhouseblue |
sorry, i haven't understood the joke?? |
Neither has my spellchecker... | |
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| Rebecca Welch on 10:21 - Dec 15 with 1201 views | BlueBadger |
| Rebecca Welch on 10:10 - Dec 15 by lowhouseblue |
as i tried to explain, discussion involves varied forms of exposition - eg, rhetoric, precedent, analogy, claims of the moral ground, logical deconstruction, and, yes, statistics. i wasn't seeking to exclude statistics, just saying that it isn't the only basis for discussion and debate. jeez. |
When are you planning on starting? | |
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| Rebecca Welch on 10:31 - Dec 15 with 1163 views | lowhouseblue |
| Rebecca Welch on 10:17 - Dec 15 by StokieBlue |
Those forms don't carry equal weight though and you were seemingly implying that they did.
For instance, I highlighted how ideology isn't equal to evidence and you ignored the point.
If you agree that evidence is important in a debate why did you dismiss it with your rather pathetic "whatever" in the other thread?
SB |
'whatever' was a response to someone posting insults.
the type of arguments that are most convincing are going to be very case specific - I don't think there is any simple hierarchy. and 'evidence' is only established, weighed and validated through debate - so you have a bit of circularity going on there. statistics don't speak for themselves - you need to establish, and have accepted, a theoretical framework before they have any meaning at all. that framework is a matter of debate. this discussion came about because someone claimed that the only way to debate an article on 14th century black death victims was to go out and collect your own statistics - which is palpable nonsense. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Rebecca Welch on 11:24 - Dec 15 with 1071 views | wkj |
| Rebecca Welch on 10:31 - Dec 15 by lowhouseblue |
'whatever' was a response to someone posting insults.
the type of arguments that are most convincing are going to be very case specific - I don't think there is any simple hierarchy. and 'evidence' is only established, weighed and validated through debate - so you have a bit of circularity going on there. statistics don't speak for themselves - you need to establish, and have accepted, a theoretical framework before they have any meaning at all. that framework is a matter of debate. this discussion came about because someone claimed that the only way to debate an article on 14th century black death victims was to go out and collect your own statistics - which is palpable nonsense. |
calling it 'palpable nonsense' was a smart are jibe and I agree that a dictionary shouldn't enter into this sort of forum. I just don't believe that a caps war can be one sided. I also take the view that the first to declare anything a caps war, in this case the Oxford English Dictionary, is the one fighting the caps war. |  |
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| Rebecca Welch on 11:51 - Dec 15 with 1012 views | BigCommon |
I noticed when she started reffing L1 games, she was given a lot of respect by players. EG no one was jumping and shouting in her face, which gave her a bit of space to just get on with reffing... I think that honeymoon period lasted a few months. .. She's probably made a few errors since. But no more than any male refs (lets be honest, the standard of refs around the EFL is "questionable")...
If anything, reffing The Prem' is a bit easier, as most of the difficult decisions are made by VAR and goal line technology.... Good luck to her. There'll be a bigger spotlight on her now.. A lot of people will be waiting to pounce on any mistakes, as they are with any refs.. Hence, the reason I think she may just start off as one of those refs that ducks out of some decisions. Plenty of male refs do just that, and play it safe... We'll see. |  | | |
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