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A few years back, I read Silvertown: An East End Family Memoir, which was fascinating.
It told the tale of a young lass around WWII times and just after, who on marrying her husband was taken to his barber shop to have all her teeth removed (without her consent or prior knowledge) and ill fitting pre-used dentures provided. Apparently, this was common practice as teeth were deemed expensive to get fixed/repaired and a cost that a husband of the time couldn't afford.
Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing.
It simply came down to efficiency. As with so much that is run by the private sector, it becomes top heavy with the remit NOT to provide a service but to make a profit.
It was the wartime experience that drove many voters towards a universal system - something the US still has not cottoned onto. Least it's hill billie dimwits have not.
Admitted to a NHS and they have every incentive to get you in, treated, and out again. In the US the incentive is to keep you in so as to charge your insurer for all manner of sometimes (unnecessary procedures).
The friendly societies, which ran a health/sickness insurance scheme, were a precursor. Ever wondered what the Oddfellows were ?
The aim was not totally one of benevolence, however much it benefitted folk. Just as with the war, the quicker you can get people back to work/fighting the better, and at lower cost as well.
i suspect that whilst there is an element of Tory thinking that sees a profit, there is also the blunt belief that health care should not be universal. Why treat a 'useless mouth' (old people, disabled etc) ? The irony being, the very people who vote for this stuff are all too often those in greatest need of this service - over 60s.
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Question for the older members of the board… on 17:09 - Jul 5 with 3429 views
According to the Daily Express at the time having a welfare state and a national health service would lead to the Gestapo walking the streets of Britain. Farage’s Grandad was probably the editor
Question for the older members of the board… on 16:55 - Jul 5 by HARRY10
It simply came down to efficiency. As with so much that is run by the private sector, it becomes top heavy with the remit NOT to provide a service but to make a profit.
It was the wartime experience that drove many voters towards a universal system - something the US still has not cottoned onto. Least it's hill billie dimwits have not.
Admitted to a NHS and they have every incentive to get you in, treated, and out again. In the US the incentive is to keep you in so as to charge your insurer for all manner of sometimes (unnecessary procedures).
The friendly societies, which ran a health/sickness insurance scheme, were a precursor. Ever wondered what the Oddfellows were ?
The aim was not totally one of benevolence, however much it benefitted folk. Just as with the war, the quicker you can get people back to work/fighting the better, and at lower cost as well.
i suspect that whilst there is an element of Tory thinking that sees a profit, there is also the blunt belief that health care should not be universal. Why treat a 'useless mouth' (old people, disabled etc) ? The irony being, the very people who vote for this stuff are all too often those in greatest need of this service - over 60s.
Please stop generalising.
Only two people out of approx 50 over-60s I know, voted Tory in the last GE.
Question for the older members of the board… on 16:55 - Jul 5 by HARRY10
It simply came down to efficiency. As with so much that is run by the private sector, it becomes top heavy with the remit NOT to provide a service but to make a profit.
It was the wartime experience that drove many voters towards a universal system - something the US still has not cottoned onto. Least it's hill billie dimwits have not.
Admitted to a NHS and they have every incentive to get you in, treated, and out again. In the US the incentive is to keep you in so as to charge your insurer for all manner of sometimes (unnecessary procedures).
The friendly societies, which ran a health/sickness insurance scheme, were a precursor. Ever wondered what the Oddfellows were ?
The aim was not totally one of benevolence, however much it benefitted folk. Just as with the war, the quicker you can get people back to work/fighting the better, and at lower cost as well.
i suspect that whilst there is an element of Tory thinking that sees a profit, there is also the blunt belief that health care should not be universal. Why treat a 'useless mouth' (old people, disabled etc) ? The irony being, the very people who vote for this stuff are all too often those in greatest need of this service - over 60s.
Must be a weird dichotomy for you Hazza, claiming to have a lotta love for the NHS whilst having no actual respect for its workers.
What might seem odd to the layman has significance to those in the know. Not me. When taken my law degree I was tutored on Parliament etc by someone called Dr Stephen Coleman, who worked for Hansard. I stayed in touch and he put some freelance work my way over the years.
Amongst explaining why some MPs are called m'learned friend and others m'honourable friend was how stuff is recorded in the house.
If you think I am lying please feel free to point it out. Making snide digs neither becomes you (I hope) or helps the debate.
So do try to live up to being a porter, or whatever it is you do.
I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
As I was approximately the 4,672,345th baby born since the inception of the NHS, I personally have no idea.
That said, a lot of it for the poor was provided charitably or through the poor law system (which was still going in the 1930s, and parts of it remained until the 1990s).
Many working class people would be in a Friendly Society. The staff and buildings of those societies migrated into the NHS, as indeed did many workhouses.
Medicine itself was still fairly rudimentary, certainly compared to today, and primary care (particularly in the big cities) was often very basic.
Question for the older members of the board… on 16:55 - Jul 5 by HARRY10
It simply came down to efficiency. As with so much that is run by the private sector, it becomes top heavy with the remit NOT to provide a service but to make a profit.
It was the wartime experience that drove many voters towards a universal system - something the US still has not cottoned onto. Least it's hill billie dimwits have not.
Admitted to a NHS and they have every incentive to get you in, treated, and out again. In the US the incentive is to keep you in so as to charge your insurer for all manner of sometimes (unnecessary procedures).
The friendly societies, which ran a health/sickness insurance scheme, were a precursor. Ever wondered what the Oddfellows were ?
The aim was not totally one of benevolence, however much it benefitted folk. Just as with the war, the quicker you can get people back to work/fighting the better, and at lower cost as well.
i suspect that whilst there is an element of Tory thinking that sees a profit, there is also the blunt belief that health care should not be universal. Why treat a 'useless mouth' (old people, disabled etc) ? The irony being, the very people who vote for this stuff are all too often those in greatest need of this service - over 60s.
Question for the older members of the board… on 16:43 - Jul 5 by artsbossbeard
A few years back, I read Silvertown: An East End Family Memoir, which was fascinating.
It told the tale of a young lass around WWII times and just after, who on marrying her husband was taken to his barber shop to have all her teeth removed (without her consent or prior knowledge) and ill fitting pre-used dentures provided. Apparently, this was common practice as teeth were deemed expensive to get fixed/repaired and a cost that a husband of the time couldn't afford.
With the scarcity of NHS dentists (unlike when I was growing up), you could be describing these days.
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Question for the older members of the board… on 18:54 - Jul 5 with 3211 views
Question for the older members of the board… on 18:10 - Jul 5 by factual_blue
As I was approximately the 4,672,345th baby born since the inception of the NHS, I personally have no idea.
That said, a lot of it for the poor was provided charitably or through the poor law system (which was still going in the 1930s, and parts of it remained until the 1990s).
Many working class people would be in a Friendly Society. The staff and buildings of those societies migrated into the NHS, as indeed did many workhouses.
Medicine itself was still fairly rudimentary, certainly compared to today, and primary care (particularly in the big cities) was often very basic.
I suppose they would say that but I think the position is more nuanced than this.
A pie chart on the following suggests around 20% of the workforce are managers, administrators or in property maintenance, the latter of which won't include those who carry out maintenance (such as changing light bulbs) under PFI contracts.
In my view, part of the problem is the increasing marketisation in the NHS brought about by reforms over the last forty odd years which means resources are diverted away from health. The Lansley reforms which required services to be put out to tender spring to mind, which also involve legal costs and the like.
I haven't been able to track down figures for the position prior to 1979 but I can't imagine there were so many people involved in administration (whether as managers or otherwise).
Incidentally, the following suggests Patricia Hewitt thinks there are not enough managers but too many administrators.
Question for the older members of the board… on 19:11 - Jul 5 by DJR
I suppose they would say that but I think the position is more nuanced than this.
A pie chart on the following suggests around 20% of the workforce are managers, administrators or in property maintenance, the latter of which won't include those who carry out maintenance (such as changing light bulbs) under PFI contracts.
In my view, part of the problem is the increasing marketisation in the NHS brought about by reforms over the last forty odd years which means resources are diverted away from health. The Lansley reforms which required services to be put out to tender spring to mind, which also involve legal costs and the like.
I haven't been able to track down figures for the position prior to 1979 but I can't imagine there were so many people involved in administration (whether as managers or otherwise).
Incidentally, the following suggests Patricia Hewitt thinks there are not enough managers but too many administrators.
Fair point, but I would think that many of the administrators are doing jobs that might otherwise consume the time of medically trained staff, particularly clerical type work. Others, perhaps at sort of middle management levels, are health care professionals who've moved into management roles where operational experience (no pun intended) is important.
And hilarity unbounded,as two righties desperately try to defend their betters
Rightie one points out how only 2 oldies voted Tory so oldies do not vote Tory - whereas the actual voting figures give lie to that nonsense.
Rightie two tries to turn a gentle dig at a particular poster into a widespread attack upon ALL NHS staff.
Still, if you are tasked with defending the Tory Party then it is not surprising this is the best you can conjure. And you can see why these two cap doffers are desperate to distract from
{i]"The quality of care that the NHS provides has got worse in many key areas and patients’ long waits to access treatment could become even more common, research has found. The coalition government’s austerity programme in the early 2010s led to the heath service in England no longer being able to meet key waiting time targets, the Nuffield Trust and Health Foundation said." Wed 5 Jul 2023 19.33 BST
Question for the older members of the board… on 16:43 - Jul 5 by artsbossbeard
A few years back, I read Silvertown: An East End Family Memoir, which was fascinating.
It told the tale of a young lass around WWII times and just after, who on marrying her husband was taken to his barber shop to have all her teeth removed (without her consent or prior knowledge) and ill fitting pre-used dentures provided. Apparently, this was common practice as teeth were deemed expensive to get fixed/repaired and a cost that a husband of the time couldn't afford.
What might seem odd to the layman has significance to those in the know. Not me. When taken my law degree I was tutored on Parliament etc by someone called Dr Stephen Coleman, who worked for Hansard. I stayed in touch and he put some freelance work my way over the years.
Amongst explaining why some MPs are called m'learned friend and others m'honourable friend was how stuff is recorded in the house.
If you think I am lying please feel free to point it out. Making snide digs neither becomes you (I hope) or helps the debate.
So do try to live up to being a porter, or whatever it is you do.
Seems to me from that like he just doesn’t have respect for you specifically not NHS workers in general.
In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
Question for the older members of the board… on 16:55 - Jul 5 by HARRY10
It simply came down to efficiency. As with so much that is run by the private sector, it becomes top heavy with the remit NOT to provide a service but to make a profit.
It was the wartime experience that drove many voters towards a universal system - something the US still has not cottoned onto. Least it's hill billie dimwits have not.
Admitted to a NHS and they have every incentive to get you in, treated, and out again. In the US the incentive is to keep you in so as to charge your insurer for all manner of sometimes (unnecessary procedures).
The friendly societies, which ran a health/sickness insurance scheme, were a precursor. Ever wondered what the Oddfellows were ?
The aim was not totally one of benevolence, however much it benefitted folk. Just as with the war, the quicker you can get people back to work/fighting the better, and at lower cost as well.
i suspect that whilst there is an element of Tory thinking that sees a profit, there is also the blunt belief that health care should not be universal. Why treat a 'useless mouth' (old people, disabled etc) ? The irony being, the very people who vote for this stuff are all too often those in greatest need of this service - over 60s.
The Oddfellows. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Order_of_Oddfellows_Manchester_Unity ODD FACT Oddfellows pubs Public houses were often used as the base for regular Society business. When members met, they often ‘took something for the good of the house’. To secure such lucrative trade, landlords were willing to name their pubs after us. Oddfellows Arms remains a popular pub name to this day.
Question for the older members of the board… on 16:43 - Jul 5 by artsbossbeard
A few years back, I read Silvertown: An East End Family Memoir, which was fascinating.
It told the tale of a young lass around WWII times and just after, who on marrying her husband was taken to his barber shop to have all her teeth removed (without her consent or prior knowledge) and ill fitting pre-used dentures provided. Apparently, this was common practice as teeth were deemed expensive to get fixed/repaired and a cost that a husband of the time couldn't afford.
Almost the exact same procedure is described on a wall poster at the Beamish Museum in County Durham except that the cost was paid for by the girl's father as a wedding present...
Question for the older members of the board… on 20:23 - Jul 5 by vilanovablue
With the greatest respect the Tory demographic does sit there, I know v few Tory voters outside work but they hide in the shadows.
I's still offensive to those of us over 60 s who are vehemently opposed to the tories & everything they do, esp the current bunch of a*holes, to suggest as H did that we *all* vote for the #ToryCriminalsUnfitToGovern though.
Question for the older members of the board… on 20:37 - Jul 5 by WeWereZombies
Almost the exact same procedure is described on a wall poster at the Beamish Museum in County Durham except that the cost was paid for by the girl's father as a wedding present...
I had an aunt who told me about having her teeth out as a 21st birthday present.
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Question for the older members of the board… on 21:23 - Jul 5 with 2911 views
Question for the older members of the board… on 20:11 - Jul 5 by factual_blue
Fair point, but I would think that many of the administrators are doing jobs that might otherwise consume the time of medically trained staff, particularly clerical type work. Others, perhaps at sort of middle management levels, are health care professionals who've moved into management roles where operational experience (no pun intended) is important.
But I'm no expert.
Me neither!
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Question for the older members of the board… on 22:05 - Jul 5 with 2863 views
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