| The Independents take on Football club owners on 11:25 - Nov 10 with 5441 views | monty_radio |
Good read.
And yet - "Football clubs, with their captive market, global branding, relatively small entry stakes and - in many cases - prime urban land - could scarcely be better designed to attract the Maxwells and the Lords of this world".
And so back comes the perennial question: what's in it for M.E. who appears not to take money out of the club, nor want to build Ipswich (the town itself) into a worldwide name (see article). |  |
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| The Independents take on Football club owners on 11:40 - Nov 10 with 5423 views | No9 |
| The Independents take on Football club owners on 11:25 - Nov 10 by monty_radio |
Good read.
And yet - "Football clubs, with their captive market, global branding, relatively small entry stakes and - in many cases - prime urban land - could scarcely be better designed to attract the Maxwells and the Lords of this world".
And so back comes the perennial question: what's in it for M.E. who appears not to take money out of the club, nor want to build Ipswich (the town itself) into a worldwide name (see article). |
To be summed up as "where is football going" ? | | | |
| The Independents take on Football club owners on 11:49 - Nov 10 with 5418 views | solemio |
My son often goes to Dulwich Hamlet. Their crowds are remarkable, the atmosphere is friendly but lively, and they are all very worried about their club.
The other clubs in their division are almost equally worried because their home games against Dulwich see their largest crowd of the season, with frequently more away fans than home. | | | |
| The Independents take on Football club owners on 11:52 - Nov 10 with 5411 views | No9 |
| The Independents take on Football club owners on 11:49 - Nov 10 by solemio |
My son often goes to Dulwich Hamlet. Their crowds are remarkable, the atmosphere is friendly but lively, and they are all very worried about their club.
The other clubs in their division are almost equally worried because their home games against Dulwich see their largest crowd of the season, with frequently more away fans than home. |
It seems a lot of local football clubs are in that position.
What I find a bit depressing is that travelling round Europe almost every country has better facilities for small town / village clubs and better coaches.
It is as if the FA, et al are happy for money to run the top clubs & the rest can go to hell. | | | |
| The Independents take on Football club owners on 11:53 - Nov 10 with 5410 views | factual_blue |
| The Independents take on Football club owners on 11:49 - Nov 10 by solemio |
My son often goes to Dulwich Hamlet. Their crowds are remarkable, the atmosphere is friendly but lively, and they are all very worried about their club.
The other clubs in their division are almost equally worried because their home games against Dulwich see their largest crowd of the season, with frequently more away fans than home. |
IIRC correctly, my first ever football match was watching Dulwich Hamlet, or possibly Corinthian Casuals with whom they used to ground share. |  |
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| The Independents take on Football club owners on 12:10 - Nov 10 with 5384 views | solemio |
| The Independents take on Football club owners on 11:53 - Nov 10 by factual_blue |
IIRC correctly, my first ever football match was watching Dulwich Hamlet, or possibly Corinthian Casuals with whom they used to ground share. |
Yes, two great names of the old amateur days there. | | | |
| The Independents take on Football club owners on 12:15 - Nov 10 with 5376 views | No9 |
| The Independents take on Football club owners on 12:10 - Nov 10 by solemio |
Yes, two great names of the old amateur days there. |
I'm old enough to remember the days when professionals complained amatuers in the pro game were better paid than the pro's
Funny old game | | | |
| The Independents take on Football club owners on 12:46 - Nov 10 with 5339 views | monty_radio |
| The Independents take on Football club owners on 11:52 - Nov 10 by No9 |
It seems a lot of local football clubs are in that position.
What I find a bit depressing is that travelling round Europe almost every country has better facilities for small town / village clubs and better coaches.
It is as if the FA, et al are happy for money to run the top clubs & the rest can go to hell. |
Certainly true of small towns in Norway and Sweden - football stadia/attached sporting facilities for all. | |
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| The Independents take on Football club owners on 12:58 - Nov 10 with 5320 views | marcus1642 |
Good article.
So what is in it for Evans?. A big question that never gets answered |  | | |
| The Independents take on Football club owners on 13:02 - Nov 10 with 5316 views | uncle |
| The Independents take on Football club owners on 11:40 - Nov 10 by No9 |
To be summed up as "where is football going" ? |
I remember a few years ago the Abu Dhabi Promotional Vehicle formerly known as Man City saying that fans are "consumers of the football product".
If that's where we're heading god help us. |  | | |
| The Independents take on Football club owners on 13:06 - Nov 10 with 5303 views | uncle |
| The Independents take on Football club owners on 12:15 - Nov 10 by No9 |
I'm old enough to remember the days when professionals complained amatuers in the pro game were better paid than the pro's
Funny old game |
I totally agree with the article, it sums up my withered opinion of aspects of the game perfectly.
I do wonder if our beloved Cobbolds would be uutliers.
I hope so. | | | |
| The Independents take on Football club owners on 13:41 - Nov 10 with 5268 views | monty_radio |
| The Independents take on Football club owners on 13:06 - Nov 10 by uncle |
I totally agree with the article, it sums up my withered opinion of aspects of the game perfectly.
I do wonder if our beloved Cobbolds would be uutliers.
I hope so. |
I guess we'll know Town have "arrived" when the stands are rebranded. Though apart from the Co-op, the club's history hasn't left modernisers with too much scope. Uproar would surely follow any attempt to rebrand the other three. | |
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| The Independents take on Football club owners on 13:43 - Nov 10 with 5260 views | No9 |
| The Independents take on Football club owners on 13:41 - Nov 10 by monty_radio |
I guess we'll know Town have "arrived" when the stands are rebranded. Though apart from the Co-op, the club's history hasn't left modernisers with too much scope. Uproar would surely follow any attempt to rebrand the other three. |
The East side was originally named the Pioneer stand | | | |
| The Independents take on Football club owners on 14:04 - Nov 10 with 5226 views | Superfrans |
Interesting piece. Although I'd argue that club owners will always care about their fans, in that they are a source of much of their income. But we shouldn't kid ourselves that it is anything more than that. It's a commercial transaction, whether its a long term one (trying to attract kids, to become the fans of tomorrow) or short term (price deals to bring in larger numbers for TV games, for instance).
What is changing for all clubs in England (especially) at the top levels is that the reliance on local fan income is becoming eroded, in favour of overseas commercial income (driven by international fans). The Salford-raised fan of Man U doesn't matter as much to the club as he/she used to because Man U now has fans all over the world, who drive TV revenues, merchandise revenues, hospitality revenues etc etc. While, proportionally, season ticket holders from Manchester/Salford/Lancashire would have accounted for the vast proportion of income in an era before modern commercialisation, today they are a minority proportion.
When the Prem extends its reach into China and India, the vast TV audiences there and the income that can be generated will make the average Salford-based season ticket holder almost meaningless to the overall health of the club.
And, of course, the great thing about fanbases in China, Korea and India (vs those from Greater Manchester) is that they tend to complain less. Of course, they also tend to cheer less, so don't contribute to the "atmosphere".
But, within 20 years, there will be big name Premiership clubs piping canned applause/atmosphere into their grounds. Guaranteed. |  |
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| The Independents take on Football club owners on 14:12 - Nov 10 with 5211 views | No9 |
| The Independents take on Football club owners on 14:04 - Nov 10 by Superfrans |
Interesting piece. Although I'd argue that club owners will always care about their fans, in that they are a source of much of their income. But we shouldn't kid ourselves that it is anything more than that. It's a commercial transaction, whether its a long term one (trying to attract kids, to become the fans of tomorrow) or short term (price deals to bring in larger numbers for TV games, for instance).
What is changing for all clubs in England (especially) at the top levels is that the reliance on local fan income is becoming eroded, in favour of overseas commercial income (driven by international fans). The Salford-raised fan of Man U doesn't matter as much to the club as he/she used to because Man U now has fans all over the world, who drive TV revenues, merchandise revenues, hospitality revenues etc etc. While, proportionally, season ticket holders from Manchester/Salford/Lancashire would have accounted for the vast proportion of income in an era before modern commercialisation, today they are a minority proportion.
When the Prem extends its reach into China and India, the vast TV audiences there and the income that can be generated will make the average Salford-based season ticket holder almost meaningless to the overall health of the club.
And, of course, the great thing about fanbases in China, Korea and India (vs those from Greater Manchester) is that they tend to complain less. Of course, they also tend to cheer less, so don't contribute to the "atmosphere".
But, within 20 years, there will be big name Premiership clubs piping canned applause/atmosphere into their grounds. Guaranteed. |
Man U have a massive following in the F.E.
If you recall when Enagland played in the WC Korea / Japan Beckham went on independent visits which drew criticism at the time.
The MU games can be purcahsed for smartfones $1 a game, that means they can generate $ mns for the owners & the cash me never come to manchester?
The last bit I believe may have already commenced | | | |
| The Independents take on Football club owners on 14:13 - Nov 10 with 5209 views | King_of_Portman_Rd |
| The Independents take on Football club owners on 14:04 - Nov 10 by Superfrans |
Interesting piece. Although I'd argue that club owners will always care about their fans, in that they are a source of much of their income. But we shouldn't kid ourselves that it is anything more than that. It's a commercial transaction, whether its a long term one (trying to attract kids, to become the fans of tomorrow) or short term (price deals to bring in larger numbers for TV games, for instance).
What is changing for all clubs in England (especially) at the top levels is that the reliance on local fan income is becoming eroded, in favour of overseas commercial income (driven by international fans). The Salford-raised fan of Man U doesn't matter as much to the club as he/she used to because Man U now has fans all over the world, who drive TV revenues, merchandise revenues, hospitality revenues etc etc. While, proportionally, season ticket holders from Manchester/Salford/Lancashire would have accounted for the vast proportion of income in an era before modern commercialisation, today they are a minority proportion.
When the Prem extends its reach into China and India, the vast TV audiences there and the income that can be generated will make the average Salford-based season ticket holder almost meaningless to the overall health of the club.
And, of course, the great thing about fanbases in China, Korea and India (vs those from Greater Manchester) is that they tend to complain less. Of course, they also tend to cheer less, so don't contribute to the "atmosphere".
But, within 20 years, there will be big name Premiership clubs piping canned applause/atmosphere into their grounds. Guaranteed. |
It would be fascinating to see a breakdown of the % income from season and matchday tickets for some of these 'Superclubs' compared to sponsorship and media deals etc.
I imagine the corporate and 'tourist' tickets at places like Camp Nou and Old Trafford are the greatest ticketing income on matchdays, which in turn are a drop in the ocean compared to moneys from Sky and Sponsors etc. |  | | |
| The Independents take on Football club owners on 14:18 - Nov 10 with 5197 views | Superfrans |
| The Independents take on Football club owners on 14:12 - Nov 10 by No9 |
Man U have a massive following in the F.E.
If you recall when Enagland played in the WC Korea / Japan Beckham went on independent visits which drew criticism at the time.
The MU games can be purcahsed for smartfones $1 a game, that means they can generate $ mns for the owners & the cash me never come to manchester?
The last bit I believe may have already commenced |
Indeed. Imagine when they can replicate those models in China / India.
South Korea's population - 51m.
China's population - 1,379m.
India's population - 1,324m.
Compared to some kid in Salford paying £1,000 a season. | |
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| The Independents take on Football club owners on 14:30 - Nov 10 with 5183 views | Superfrans |
| The Independents take on Football club owners on 14:13 - Nov 10 by King_of_Portman_Rd |
It would be fascinating to see a breakdown of the % income from season and matchday tickets for some of these 'Superclubs' compared to sponsorship and media deals etc.
I imagine the corporate and 'tourist' tickets at places like Camp Nou and Old Trafford are the greatest ticketing income on matchdays, which in turn are a drop in the ocean compared to moneys from Sky and Sponsors etc. |
ManU's financials for 2016/17 showed turnover of £581m, including £112m of matchday income (so 19% of their turnover).
Our turnover last time (2015/16) showed £16.3m turnover, including £6.5m gate receipts (39.9% of our turnover).
My guess would be that the further down you go, gate income takes on a higher and higher percentage - the fans become more and more important to the financial health of a club. [Post edited 10 Nov 2017 14:31]
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| The Independents take on Football club owners on 14:30 - Nov 10 with 5187 views | solemio |
| The Independents take on Football club owners on 13:43 - Nov 10 by No9 |
The East side was originally named the Pioneer stand |
Before that it was imaginatively named the East Stand. | | | |
| The Independents take on Football club owners on 15:35 - Nov 10 with 5131 views | No9 |
| The Independents take on Football club owners on 14:30 - Nov 10 by solemio |
Before that it was imaginatively named the East Stand. |
No, it was the the chicken run | | | |
| The Independents take on Football club owners on 15:43 - Nov 10 with 5123 views | hype313 |
| The Independents take on Football club owners on 14:04 - Nov 10 by Superfrans |
Interesting piece. Although I'd argue that club owners will always care about their fans, in that they are a source of much of their income. But we shouldn't kid ourselves that it is anything more than that. It's a commercial transaction, whether its a long term one (trying to attract kids, to become the fans of tomorrow) or short term (price deals to bring in larger numbers for TV games, for instance).
What is changing for all clubs in England (especially) at the top levels is that the reliance on local fan income is becoming eroded, in favour of overseas commercial income (driven by international fans). The Salford-raised fan of Man U doesn't matter as much to the club as he/she used to because Man U now has fans all over the world, who drive TV revenues, merchandise revenues, hospitality revenues etc etc. While, proportionally, season ticket holders from Manchester/Salford/Lancashire would have accounted for the vast proportion of income in an era before modern commercialisation, today they are a minority proportion.
When the Prem extends its reach into China and India, the vast TV audiences there and the income that can be generated will make the average Salford-based season ticket holder almost meaningless to the overall health of the club.
And, of course, the great thing about fanbases in China, Korea and India (vs those from Greater Manchester) is that they tend to complain less. Of course, they also tend to cheer less, so don't contribute to the "atmosphere".
But, within 20 years, there will be big name Premiership clubs piping canned applause/atmosphere into their grounds. Guaranteed. |
Good read, the only caveat I might add is if it continues as is and the average fan can't be bothered/priced out do you think it would affect worldwide audiences if the grounds were empty? |  |
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| The Independents take on Football club owners on 15:57 - Nov 10 with 5103 views | Superfrans |
| The Independents take on Football club owners on 15:43 - Nov 10 by hype313 |
Good read, the only caveat I might add is if it continues as is and the average fan can't be bothered/priced out do you think it would affect worldwide audiences if the grounds were empty? |
TV gets over that issue by giving away audience tickets, getting warm-up men to whip them into a frenzy. Football is so popular it will probably be able to sell tickets to fans, but will generate atmosphere in the same way live TV shows do (think X Factor, Take Me Out, Strictly etc).
I went to a talk by Simon Inglis (an expert of football stadia) about 10 years ago when he predicted that this very thing would happen - clubs would give away tickets to fill stadia with controllable spectators. It'll happen.
The problem, of course, is that this begins to shape expectations at all levels. I do think that we are already suffering in this respect - fans who don't understand why we aren't trying to play like Barcelona, or winning every home game, because that's what they see all the big clubs doing. And assuming that failure to win is some kind of disaster (an attitude which is stoked by all the media coverage of the Premiership, European football and the England team) when, actually, it is the most common / likely experience that a football fan can have. | |
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| The Independents take on Football club owners on 16:33 - Nov 10 with 5090 views | factual_blue |
| The Independents take on Football club owners on 13:41 - Nov 10 by monty_radio |
I guess we'll know Town have "arrived" when the stands are rebranded. Though apart from the Co-op, the club's history hasn't left modernisers with too much scope. Uproar would surely follow any attempt to rebrand the other three. |
The Sir Bobby Robson Broad Oak Farm Sausages Stand.
The Sir Alf Ramsey Coes Stand.
The Cobbold Ghost Ship Stand.
Sorted. | |
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| The Independents take on Football club owners on 16:34 - Nov 10 with 5088 views | brazil1982 |
"Good read, the only caveat I might add is if it continues as is and the average fan can't be bothered/priced out do you think it would affect worldwide audiences if the grounds were empty? "
No, I don't think it matters to the armchair supporter at all. I remember watching Italian football in the 90s when a lot of the stadiums were half full, I didn't care a jot.
Non-league is the way to go for the traditional supporter now. |  | | |
| The Independents take on Football club owners on 17:18 - Nov 10 with 5063 views | monty_radio |
| The Independents take on Football club owners on 16:33 - Nov 10 by factual_blue |
The Sir Bobby Robson Broad Oak Farm Sausages Stand.
The Sir Alf Ramsey Coes Stand.
The Cobbold Ghost Ship Stand.
Sorted. |
Loved the idea of The Cobbold Ghost Ship.
It'll look like that anyway though when Burton sail into town. | |
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