| SNP 18:16 - Apr 25 with 3846 views | Perublue |
I don’t think in my amateur political viewing over the decades of my own political awareness have I seen a democratically voted in party that was in such a strong and powerful position in every area fall apart so rapidly.
When you think back to those halcyon days of COVID when they were unashamedly using it as a political weapon to push their agenda to where they are now. |  |
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| SNP on 22:35 - Apr 25 with 1240 views | BlueBadger |
Who'd have though that a political party offering promises of utopia based around hollow nationalism and fantasy economics would turn out to be a bit iffy? |  |
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| SNP on 22:37 - Apr 25 with 1225 views | BlueBadger |
| SNP on 21:53 - Apr 25 by DJR |
I appreciate the SNP are struggling, but some of the comments on here are straight out of papers like the Daily Express.
As it is, the media coverage during the 2014 referendum campaign turned me into someone who would vote for independence were I living in Scotland. |
So, basically, you're someone who'd buy hollow nationlist separatism based around fantasy economics if it was someone telling you what you wanted to hear? | |
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| SNP on 22:41 - Apr 25 with 1213 views | Lord_Lucan |
| SNP on 22:35 - Apr 25 by BlueBadger |
Who'd have though that a political party offering promises of utopia based around hollow nationalism and fantasy economics would turn out to be a bit iffy? |
Hey Badge
I'm a bit pissed at the moment somstand by, but......
I've genuinely got a bad memory so please forgive me if I have got everything completely arseholrd out of place, |  |
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| SNP on 23:31 - Apr 25 with 1124 views | Churchman |
| SNP on 22:22 - Apr 25 by Lord_Lucan |
H ha - in a way
Alans funny story'...........
Well, anyway, I thought it was funny.
Me and my mate were down in Plymouth and our birds were in tow. The Krankies were in our hotel and Les Dennis thought my Mrs was a brass.
Unfortunately the ££££ was a bit low - tight bastard. |
So Les Dennis didn’t offer enough. Not content with being a waste of oxygen, he’s mean with it. Dreadful.
I take it Nicola was moonlighting in Plymouth as Jimmy Krankie because her husband, Ming the Merciless, hadn’t claimed his…….errrr expenses and the winne needed a new tyre?
Still, whatever tricks they got up to, they’re still better than the scum who’ve been ransacking and destroying the country here for the last 14 years. |  | | |
| SNP on 23:37 - Apr 25 with 1115 views | Bugs |
| SNP on 18:22 - Apr 25 by GlasgowBlue |
It always amused me to see a great deal of support for Sturgeon and the SNP on here. Basically because they weren't the Tories.
Education is a mess. Drug deaths are the highest in Europe. The Islands are struggling financially because of the corruption and incompetence of the ferry scandal. Nicola's been arrested. Her husband's been charged. Their camper van has ben impounded.
To paraphrase Badger, what is it about the criminally corrupt and incompetent nationalists that so many posters on here found appealing? |
You may have a good point about the leadership, but Mhairi Black has been doing the job the current Labour Party should have been doing in trying to hold this corrupt government to account, x 10. |  | | |
| SNP on 23:52 - Apr 25 with 1092 views | Bugs |
| SNP on 22:37 - Apr 25 by BlueBadger |
So, basically, you're someone who'd buy hollow nationlist separatism based around fantasy economics if it was someone telling you what you wanted to hear? |
I don't know, as I'm not Scottish and not done the research. But perhaps Scotland being in the EU is better off economically than Scotland being in the UK. 400 odd million people relatively close to trade with, vs 55 million.
Pre Brexit, I would have said Scotland staying in the UK was a no-brainer. Despite years of Tory government that the country didn't vote for but had to suffer.
Now I'm not so sure.
The UK is without doubt in decline (some would say, managed, but it doesn't feel very managed). So why not become an independent county and align yourself with the largest trading block on the planet? Compared to where the UK is heading at the moment, it's not that a greater risk, is it? | | | |
| SNP on 07:18 - Apr 26 with 967 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| SNP on 23:52 - Apr 25 by Bugs |
I don't know, as I'm not Scottish and not done the research. But perhaps Scotland being in the EU is better off economically than Scotland being in the UK. 400 odd million people relatively close to trade with, vs 55 million.
Pre Brexit, I would have said Scotland staying in the UK was a no-brainer. Despite years of Tory government that the country didn't vote for but had to suffer.
Now I'm not so sure.
The UK is without doubt in decline (some would say, managed, but it doesn't feel very managed). So why not become an independent county and align yourself with the largest trading block on the planet? Compared to where the UK is heading at the moment, it's not that a greater risk, is it? |
“and not done the research”
That’s the problem - neither have the SNP, or rather they are disingenuous on it. It would take years to rejoin since the UK has been diverging on rules, Scotland’s structural deficit is larger than permitted, and they’d be behind other countries who already have accession deals. That’s assuming there are no current members which object. The UK Civil Service estimated a minimum of 8 years, the EU have largely kept quiet on it since they have bigger priorities than yet another small nation joining (Russia/deep economic problems).
RUK is not likely to say ‘well you’re leaving but you can stick around in our Union for a decade until you join the EU’. That’s have your cake an eat it stuff, which means Scotland is cast adrift with zero trade deals. |  | | |
| SNP on 07:24 - Apr 26 with 966 views | DJR |
| SNP on 22:37 - Apr 25 by BlueBadger |
So, basically, you're someone who'd buy hollow nationlist separatism based around fantasy economics if it was someone telling you what you wanted to hear? |
As regards my first paragraph, I rest my case.
As regards my second, you have misunderstood what I was saying. |  | | |
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| SNP on 08:07 - Apr 26 with 917 views | Swansea_Blue |
| SNP on 23:37 - Apr 25 by Bugs |
You may have a good point about the leadership, but Mhairi Black has been doing the job the current Labour Party should have been doing in trying to hold this corrupt government to account, x 10. |
And she’s not alone. They’ve been a breath of fresh air in the HoC. I can’t speak for the Holyrood lot though. |  |
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| SNP on 08:19 - Apr 26 with 894 views | Churchman |
| SNP on 07:18 - Apr 26 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
“and not done the research”
That’s the problem - neither have the SNP, or rather they are disingenuous on it. It would take years to rejoin since the UK has been diverging on rules, Scotland’s structural deficit is larger than permitted, and they’d be behind other countries who already have accession deals. That’s assuming there are no current members which object. The UK Civil Service estimated a minimum of 8 years, the EU have largely kept quiet on it since they have bigger priorities than yet another small nation joining (Russia/deep economic problems).
RUK is not likely to say ‘well you’re leaving but you can stick around in our Union for a decade until you join the EU’. That’s have your cake an eat it stuff, which means Scotland is cast adrift with zero trade deals. |
More than 60% of Scotland’s exports are to England/Wales/NI.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-internal-market-vital-for-scottish-exports
It makes no sense economically to jeopardise that relationship. When I last looked at this, about for times as many exports to Europe went overland than by sea. ‘Send it all by sea’ I hear you say. Well, if there was competitive advantage in doing that they’d be doing it. I’ll add that ports specialise in what they handle and have direct relationships with specific ports in Europe and beyond. Build links and port infrastructure? Yep, but it takes time and who pays?
This is a problem for Scotland as is potential loss of access to Eurotunnel which pre Brexit was rocketing in usage for moving freight.
Basically, with independence, Scotland will be repeating the idiocy of Brexit.
They don’t need to force it. Scotland has every right to be independent. The last two elections prove that. Why on earth should they have to endure the political scum of England?
England should promise independence for Scotland within a sensible agreed time frame to allow agreement on debt, transport, borders (a better version of CTA which would get around visas etc, national identity. Same for Wales if that’s what the want. Alternatively set up a looser federation of nations, a bit like states in the US.
An important element is the EU. Rejoin Single Market and Customs Union with a view to rejoining the EU ASAP. In 2016, the EU cost the U.K. £14bn a year and got about £9bn back (they forgot to write that bit on the bus). Absolute bargain of the century for what we got out of it economically and culturally. If the EU want £50bn a year net it’ll be worth it. For perspective, Health and Social care, though deliberately starved of money, still costs £200bn a year.
With regard to divergence on rules, I suspect they’ve not diverged that much yet, but I don’t know the facts on that. What is obvious though is tha Brexit has proved a massive hurdle for a lot of businesses. Everything from additional costs, time delays, devaluation you name it. All to satisfy the egos of swivel eyed oddballs.
In conclusion, of course the Scots want and should have independence. It is their choice. But I think only convergence of the whole of the U.K. with the EU makes that economically feasible as without it I don’t see how Scotland can prosper.
Apologies for the morning musings. | | | |
| SNP on 09:16 - Apr 26 with 866 views | DJR |
Hamsa Yousaf may well be not up to much, but it is interesting to note that the SNP currently have 63 MSPs, just two short of a majority.
As it is, the 2007 and 2011 SNP governments were minority governments with even less seats, and one thing that does appear to be better than Westminster is the fact that legislation often has cross-party support. The trans legislation (whilst obviously controversial to some) is a case in point. [Post edited 26 Apr 9:17]
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| SNP on 09:24 - Apr 26 with 843 views | DJR |
| SNP on 08:19 - Apr 26 by Churchman |
More than 60% of Scotland’s exports are to England/Wales/NI.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-internal-market-vital-for-scottish-exports
It makes no sense economically to jeopardise that relationship. When I last looked at this, about for times as many exports to Europe went overland than by sea. ‘Send it all by sea’ I hear you say. Well, if there was competitive advantage in doing that they’d be doing it. I’ll add that ports specialise in what they handle and have direct relationships with specific ports in Europe and beyond. Build links and port infrastructure? Yep, but it takes time and who pays?
This is a problem for Scotland as is potential loss of access to Eurotunnel which pre Brexit was rocketing in usage for moving freight.
Basically, with independence, Scotland will be repeating the idiocy of Brexit.
They don’t need to force it. Scotland has every right to be independent. The last two elections prove that. Why on earth should they have to endure the political scum of England?
England should promise independence for Scotland within a sensible agreed time frame to allow agreement on debt, transport, borders (a better version of CTA which would get around visas etc, national identity. Same for Wales if that’s what the want. Alternatively set up a looser federation of nations, a bit like states in the US.
An important element is the EU. Rejoin Single Market and Customs Union with a view to rejoining the EU ASAP. In 2016, the EU cost the U.K. £14bn a year and got about £9bn back (they forgot to write that bit on the bus). Absolute bargain of the century for what we got out of it economically and culturally. If the EU want £50bn a year net it’ll be worth it. For perspective, Health and Social care, though deliberately starved of money, still costs £200bn a year.
With regard to divergence on rules, I suspect they’ve not diverged that much yet, but I don’t know the facts on that. What is obvious though is tha Brexit has proved a massive hurdle for a lot of businesses. Everything from additional costs, time delays, devaluation you name it. All to satisfy the egos of swivel eyed oddballs.
In conclusion, of course the Scots want and should have independence. It is their choice. But I think only convergence of the whole of the U.K. with the EU makes that economically feasible as without it I don’t see how Scotland can prosper.
Apologies for the morning musings. |
No need to apologise at all, and nice to see a measured post.
As it is, I think independence is off the table for perhaps 20 years, but one thing definitely adversely affecting Scotland is a post-Brexit immigration policy which impacts severely on Scotland which needs more people given a lowest ever fertility rate of 1.28 in 2022 (much lower than England) and a long history of emigration (virtually all the twenty or so cousins on my father's side do not live in Scotland). [Post edited 26 Apr 9:26]
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| SNP on 09:34 - Apr 26 with 806 views | giant_stow |
| SNP on 09:24 - Apr 26 by DJR |
No need to apologise at all, and nice to see a measured post.
As it is, I think independence is off the table for perhaps 20 years, but one thing definitely adversely affecting Scotland is a post-Brexit immigration policy which impacts severely on Scotland which needs more people given a lowest ever fertility rate of 1.28 in 2022 (much lower than England) and a long history of emigration (virtually all the twenty or so cousins on my father's side do not live in Scotland). [Post edited 26 Apr 9:26]
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I've seen this about Scotland desperately needing more migration before and wondered why that is? Whats stopping migrants heading up there? |  |
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| SNP on 09:41 - Apr 26 with 772 views | mutters |
Reality has caught up with them IMO. They have struggled to contain some serious problems in Scotland, a failing Primary / Secondary educational system, not combating addiction on many fronts and generally riding on the wave of Independence.
I will be interesting in the next GE as to where Scotland turns to. It used have many more labour seats before the rise of the new SNP and I can see that be reversed. Their anti-Westminster rhetoric (and when looking at the current incumbents who can blame them) has finally caught up with them. People want stability, jobs, a healthy society and for a long time they have been a one-trick pony. A bit overly simple but every debate with them always ends up with a conversation on Independance. Also Nicola Sturgeon presented herself as an antidote to the "corrupt" party in charge of Westiminster. WIth recent events with her husband must make people wonder how much of honey pot did they sample as well?
They had their chance, they took their shot but ultimately time has caught them out. |  |
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| SNP on 09:45 - Apr 26 with 709 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| SNP on 09:34 - Apr 26 by giant_stow |
I've seen this about Scotland desperately needing more migration before and wondered why that is? Whats stopping migrants heading up there? |
“ Whats stopping migrants heading up there?”
Probably the food, and the weather…😄 | | | |
| SNP on 09:52 - Apr 26 with 679 views | J2BLUE |
| SNP on 09:45 - Apr 26 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
“ Whats stopping migrants heading up there?”
Probably the food, and the weather…😄 |
And the people  |  |
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| SNP on 09:56 - Apr 26 with 661 views | giant_stow |
| SNP on 09:45 - Apr 26 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
“ Whats stopping migrants heading up there?”
Probably the food, and the weather…😄 |
There's got to be something wrong innit. No doubt it's "Westminster's" fault somehow, but I can't figure out how/why... | |
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| SNP on 10:33 - Apr 26 with 593 views | Churchman |
| SNP on 09:24 - Apr 26 by DJR |
No need to apologise at all, and nice to see a measured post.
As it is, I think independence is off the table for perhaps 20 years, but one thing definitely adversely affecting Scotland is a post-Brexit immigration policy which impacts severely on Scotland which needs more people given a lowest ever fertility rate of 1.28 in 2022 (much lower than England) and a long history of emigration (virtually all the twenty or so cousins on my father's side do not live in Scotland). [Post edited 26 Apr 9:26]
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Ta. I don’t think ‘independence’ in the way SNP talk about it is necessary. ‘Splendid isolation’ didn’t work in the early 20c. It never will - Brexit and all the associated flag waving and rhetoric proves that.
Cultural independence, autonomy in certain things, the ability to manage one’s own finances etc are about all you need for all the countries of the U.K. If Scotland wants the full Boris Johnson/Trump, why seek to rejoin the EU independently where your voice becomes 1% of the population as opposed to 7% of the U.K.? None of it makes sense to me.
Scotland already has its own tax regime, its own identity, Parliament, law provision etc. just extend that. Economies of scale suggest that shared defence, policing and healthcare provision etc make sense. Borders, flag waving and vitriol, which is what we are talking about, do not.
Maybe, ditch the Lords, ditch MPs in Westminster representing Wales, NI and Scotland so England has its own much needed Parliament and have a second review chamber instead of the HOL representing all the U.K. nations common interests. In other words maybe change the constitution to a more American style, without Biden and the Donald! Just ideas/ thoughts
The act of Union is about 317 yeas old? From even before that inter marriage, people movement, even DNA suggest that slapping borders up, painting your face blue/white or white/red is fine for sport, but little else in the 21st century. It was an element of Brexit and the Independence referendum 10 years ago that I found frankly puerile and still do. | | | |
| SNP on 10:44 - Apr 26 with 579 views | GlasgowBlue |
| SNP on 09:52 - Apr 26 by J2BLUE |
And the people |
There are a few elites up here. |  |
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| SNP on 10:49 - Apr 26 with 570 views | GlasgowBlue |
| SNP on 09:16 - Apr 26 by DJR |
Hamsa Yousaf may well be not up to much, but it is interesting to note that the SNP currently have 63 MSPs, just two short of a majority.
As it is, the 2007 and 2011 SNP governments were minority governments with even less seats, and one thing that does appear to be better than Westminster is the fact that legislation often has cross-party support. The trans legislation (whilst obviously controversial to some) is a case in point. [Post edited 26 Apr 9:17]
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My view, and I have been know to be wrong, is that Yousaf will be forced to fall on his sword by the SNP and Kate Forbes will be out in place to placate Mad Ash and give the SNP a working majority of one. But the gender legislation will be watered down.
We are about to see how progressive the SNP actually are when it comes to clinging onto power. | |
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| SNP on 11:28 - Apr 26 with 636 views | TheSweeny |
P45 = White | | | |
| SNP on 12:06 - Apr 26 with 572 views | DJR |
| SNP on 10:49 - Apr 26 by GlasgowBlue |
My view, and I have been know to be wrong, is that Yousaf will be forced to fall on his sword by the SNP and Kate Forbes will be out in place to placate Mad Ash and give the SNP a working majority of one. But the gender legislation will be watered down.
We are about to see how progressive the SNP actually are when it comes to clinging onto power. |
Interestingly, the Scottish devolution settlement was designed to make it very difficult to achieve an overall majority, thus ensuring more working together.
In the circumstances, it was extraordinary that the SNP achieved an overall majority in 2011, and I suppose it could be said, if the SNP have to compromise that it is just part of what was envisaged when the Parliament was set up. | | | |
| SNP on 12:57 - Apr 26 with 504 views | ElephantintheRoom |
Lib Dem’s implosion after going into bed with the nasty party probably beats the rabid jimmies quite easily.
You’re probably getting confused because first past the post has overloaded our parliament with SNP MPs. It’s a different kettle of fish in the northern outpost’s own excuse for a parliament because the assembly representatives are more representative of what the McUnwashed actually have voted for, | |
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| SNP on 15:11 - Apr 26 with 367 views | DJR |
Following on with the theme of Islamophobic attacks on Humza Yousaf, I thought this from 9 March (which I don't think got much publicity) is illuminating.
The Scottish government donated £250,000 to the UNRWA aid agency in November 2023, at the same time as Mr Yousaf's parents-in-law were among millions unable to leave the enclave.
The Daily Telegraph reported on Saturday that Mr Yousaf was being accused of overriding officials' recommendations to give Unicef, a different UN agency, between £100,000 and £200,000.
In a series of posts on social media platform X, formerly known as Twitter, Mr Yousaf said the story was an "Islamophobic attack" and an attempt to link him to terrorism.
He said: "Most of my political life, I've battled insinuations from sections of the media desperate to link me to terrorism despite campaigning my whole life against it.
"The latest smear from the Telegraph is just a continuation of these Islamophobic attacks."
The first minister added: "Due to my faith & race, there will always be those, particularly on the far-right, who will desperately try to "prove" my loyalties lie elsewhere. That I am a fifth columnist in the only country I call home, the country I love and the country I have the privilege of leading.
"I can not tell you the trauma my family suffered, particularly during the weeks my in-laws were trapped there.
"To peddle far-right conspiracies in a newspaper is outrageous & will only encourage a further pile-on of vile abuse my family & I have suffered throughout this period." | | | |
| SNP on 16:02 - Apr 26 with 308 views | DJR |
| SNP on 10:49 - Apr 26 by GlasgowBlue |
My view, and I have been know to be wrong, is that Yousaf will be forced to fall on his sword by the SNP and Kate Forbes will be out in place to placate Mad Ash and give the SNP a working majority of one. But the gender legislation will be watered down.
We are about to see how progressive the SNP actually are when it comes to clinging onto power. |
Interesting development.
Ash Regan, the only Alba party MSP, will not back Labour’s motion of no confidence in the Scottish government, a spokesperson for the party has said. In a statement Alba said:
Anas Sarwar’s grandstanding is just an attempt to remain relevant. However, unionist parties should beware in their glee. As much as Humza Yousaf and the SNP find themselves in a tricky predicament, independence supporters will not turn back to the yoke of Tory and Labour mediocrity. Alba Party are now ensuring that independence supporters have a party they can turn to. [Post edited 26 Apr 16:06]
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