| The UK court system 13:26 - Apr 19 with 1707 views | Zx1988 |
Absolutely f**ked beyond belief, isn't it!?
I was just reading an update on the BW situation, and I understand that the outcome of his appearance today was that he's been bailed to return to court w/c 17th March 2025 for trial. For an alleged offence that took place in August 2023.
Has it always been this bad? |  |
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| The UK court system on 13:30 - Apr 19 with 1659 views | PhilTWTD |
It's been bad for a while I believe, but Covid added hugely to the backlog. A solicitor friend of mine has a client whose case will finally be heard six years after he was arrested. |  | | |
| The UK court system on 13:41 - Apr 19 with 1583 views | DarkBrandon |
It hasn’t always been this bad. It is terrible for everyone.
It makes it harder to convict guilty people, and inevitably witnesses recollections fade over time.
It means people who are charged, but actually innocent, have a court case hanging over them for years
It means victims have to wait ages for justice for the crimes committed against them.
Lots of reasons - and as Phil says things got a lot worse with Covid - but the court system has been cut back hugely in recent years. The probation service and the CPS are massively stretched. |  | | |
| The UK court system on 13:44 - Apr 19 with 1558 views | Keno |
| The UK court system on 13:30 - Apr 19 by PhilTWTD |
It's been bad for a while I believe, but Covid added hugely to the backlog. A solicitor friend of mine has a client whose case will finally be heard six years after he was arrested. |
But wont Gav just be able to plead insanity? |  |
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| The UK court system on 13:46 - Apr 19 with 1529 views | Reus30 |
He could have at least done his tie up properly! Time to start looking after yourself properly, looks like he is having a rough time of it but hopefully he gets himself sorted. |  | | |
| The UK court system on 14:34 - Apr 19 with 1387 views | Illinoisblue |
Generally and not specific to this case, people who drive without insurance really boil my piss. Especially those who can clearly afford insurance. |  |
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| The UK court system on 14:59 - Apr 19 with 1330 views | NorthLondonBlue2 |
| The UK court system on 13:30 - Apr 19 by PhilTWTD |
It's been bad for a while I believe, but Covid added hugely to the backlog. A solicitor friend of mine has a client whose case will finally be heard six years after he was arrested. |
Covid certainly hasn’t helped, but the CJS was already on its knees when the pandemic hit. The Tories have essentially decided to defund criminal justice and don’t care a jot for the consequences.
They are also the ones who abolished the right of an acquitted defendant from claiming their legal costs beyond the legal aid rate. So, innocent people who earn over the legal aid threshold (£733 pm of disposable income) have to fork out large private fees, which for a crown court trial could easily amount to £20k or more) and only get a fraction of that back when they’ve won their case.
Or, they have to represent themselves and are hugely prejudiced as a result.
Barristers are leaving the legally aided work in droves and many of the delays are because a barrister can’t be found, either to prosecute or defend.
Something else to remember at the ballot box. | | | |
| The UK court system on 15:20 - Apr 19 with 1277 views | BlueBoots |
Sounds like he's getting preferential treatment to me...I'm going to court as the victim of an assault (ABH case) that took place in March 2023 - going to trial with a court date of 14th April 2025... |  |
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| The UK court system on 15:39 - Apr 19 with 1201 views | Leaky |
My son was attacked in 2023. The perpetrator of the attack was court and sentenced with in 10 months. |  | | |
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| The UK court system on 16:01 - Apr 19 with 1107 views | farkenhell |
| The UK court system on 14:59 - Apr 19 by NorthLondonBlue2 |
Covid certainly hasn’t helped, but the CJS was already on its knees when the pandemic hit. The Tories have essentially decided to defund criminal justice and don’t care a jot for the consequences.
They are also the ones who abolished the right of an acquitted defendant from claiming their legal costs beyond the legal aid rate. So, innocent people who earn over the legal aid threshold (£733 pm of disposable income) have to fork out large private fees, which for a crown court trial could easily amount to £20k or more) and only get a fraction of that back when they’ve won their case.
Or, they have to represent themselves and are hugely prejudiced as a result.
Barristers are leaving the legally aided work in droves and many of the delays are because a barrister can’t be found, either to prosecute or defend.
Something else to remember at the ballot box. |
All very true, however for the sake of balance, I should point out that successive governments, including Labour and the Conservative/Lib-Dem coalition persistently decreased the criminal (and civil/family) justice budget, resulting in today's broken system. Governments of all political persuasions have got away with it for decades because the public have allowed them to do so - it's not a vote-winner and much easier to blame the "fat cat legal aid lawyers bleeding the system dry" (yeah, right!) There is hope that Kier Starmer might do something to arrest the slide, but I'm not holding my breath. | | | |
| The UK court system on 16:03 - Apr 19 with 1099 views | farkenhell |
| The UK court system on 15:39 - Apr 19 by Leaky |
My son was attacked in 2023. The perpetrator of the attack was court and sentenced with in 10 months. |
I'm very sorry to hear that your son was attacked. Did the perpetrator plead guilty? If so, 10 months is still a disgrace. | | | |
| The UK court system on 16:10 - Apr 19 with 1077 views | Leaky |
| The UK court system on 16:03 - Apr 19 by farkenhell |
I'm very sorry to hear that your son was attacked. Did the perpetrator plead guilty? If so, 10 months is still a disgrace. |
Yes he did plead guilty, the delay was down to the police wanting to upgrade the charge from GBH, as they wanted him to do time. In the end that's what he pleaded guilty to plus he didn't get a custodial sentence. | | | |
| The UK court system on 16:50 - Apr 19 with 952 views | DJR |
| The UK court system on 16:01 - Apr 19 by farkenhell |
All very true, however for the sake of balance, I should point out that successive governments, including Labour and the Conservative/Lib-Dem coalition persistently decreased the criminal (and civil/family) justice budget, resulting in today's broken system. Governments of all political persuasions have got away with it for decades because the public have allowed them to do so - it's not a vote-winner and much easier to blame the "fat cat legal aid lawyers bleeding the system dry" (yeah, right!) There is hope that Kier Starmer might do something to arrest the slide, but I'm not holding my breath. |
Things have got infinitely worse since 2010 as this from the Bar Council in 2022 indicates.
https://www.barcouncil.org.uk/resource/access-to-justice-can-t-survive-further-b
Access to justice in England and Wales continues to be severely hampered by budget cuts and political decisions made over a decade ago, according to a new report by the Bar Council released today.
‘Access denied: The state of the justice system in England and Wales in 2022’ reveals the current state of the courts, legal aid and law reform twelve years on from the court closures of the ‘court estates reform programme’ and ten years on from the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act (LASPO) 2012, which significantly restricted access to civil legal aid.
The Bar Council is drawing on the evidence presented in the report to call on the Government not to make funding cuts to the justice system in the Autumn statement that will further restrict access to justice and cause additional problems in the years ahead.
The report combines data from the Bar Council’s Access to Justice dashboard with powerful testimony from barristers and other practitioners working in crime, civil, and family law who took part in a Justice Week workshop earlier this year.
The report paints a worrying picture of the current state of access to justice in England and Wales. Key findings include:
1. 239 courts closed since 2010 leaving clients extremely anxious that they won’t be able to get to their hearings
2. Cuts to legal aid funding having a catastrophic impact on the ability of people to access justice
3. A mixed experience of remote justice that requires further investigation
4. Crumbling court buildings that are not fit-for-purpose, including leaks, infestations, and a lack of basic facilities
5. An increase in litigants in person, due to reductions in the availability of civil legal aid, resulting in cases taking longer and costing more – the opposite of what LASPO set out to do
6. Barristers diversifying away from legal aid work due to workload pressures and poor remuneration, further reducing the capacity of the system
7. Worrying political attacks on the rule of law and anti-lawyer rhetoric that undermines confidence in the justice system and contributes to burnout and stress
To counter these issues, the report calls for adequate funding across the justice system and a greater focus on early intervention and diverting people away from the system.
The report also includes direct quotes from those who took part in the Justice Week workshop, providing important insight into the daily experiences of those working in the justice system:
On access to courts: “We have to remember that the people we represent do not have money by and large. The cost of travelling to court added an extra burden and the court does not keep any data on why people don’t turn up to the hearing. Anecdotally, people don’t show up as they can’t afford it.”
On the rule of law and political rhetoric: “We are in a serious moment for the rule of law in this country. It is breaking down, to the extent that it could lead to all sorts of things… people just challenging the most basic democratic system… All those things, we know we have the tools to try to tackle and push back, but it’s the language and discourse that has been building up about activist lawyers which is the most dangerous of all… It is a time to be scared.”
On funding cuts: All parties in this unusual, complex, bizarre situation are scared, anxious, angry. The judges are having to manage this. There is increased pressure on the Bar. We are doing more pro bono work, keeping the system afloat by assisting.”
On access to legal aid: “Prices rise, the cost of living is up, legal advice costs a lot. The threshold [for eligibility for legal aid] is quite high. Universal Credit is so low, people are expected to make it work on very little. There is a huge national crisis about the working poor.”
On litigants in person: “We hear from LiPs that the process looks like it should be straightforward and simple. When they get towards court, they find it is complex. It’s the horror of your life and your family’s life and you only have some leaflets to advise you.”
On barrister flight: “People love the job. However, it’s unsustainable – they can’t afford it. We’re losing a lot of talent.”
Launching the report, Mark Fenhalls KC, Chair of the Bar, said:
“Justice is a vital public service that has been starved of funding and political support over the last decade. The results are clear for anyone working in the sector – a system stripped of experience and expertise, systems and buildings that aren’t fit for purpose, and a tired and cynical workforce increasingly looking for a way out.
“This report comes at a critical time as the Government is due to announce billions of spending cuts in the Autumn statement. Through the evidence presented in this report, we make a special pleading that access to justice is properly recognised as a necessary pillar of a fair and just society. The improved funding that has been available in the last two years cannot now be reversed without causing irrevocable damage to this vital public service.
“The consequences of cuts are not only a failing system, but one that ultimately costs more – both in terms of money and in human terms. The Government must commit to long-term planning and resourcing of the system to provide people with the legal redress to which they are entitled.” |  | | |
| The UK court system on 17:12 - Apr 19 with 901 views | cressi |
| The UK court system on 13:30 - Apr 19 by PhilTWTD |
It's been bad for a while I believe, but Covid added hugely to the backlog. A solicitor friend of mine has a client whose case will finally be heard six years after he was arrested. |
I was talking to a solicitor and have on good authority it wasn't covid that got the courts in this muddle that's a excuse he said it's this totally inept Tory government and said the courts were 65 thousand cases behind, I've been saying for quite a while this country is bollo*s and no sign of any improvement. | | | |
| The UK court system on 17:27 - Apr 19 with 869 views | Pinewoodblue |
| The UK court system on 17:12 - Apr 19 by cressi |
I was talking to a solicitor and have on good authority it wasn't covid that got the courts in this muddle that's a excuse he said it's this totally inept Tory government and said the courts were 65 thousand cases behind, I've been saying for quite a while this country is bollo*s and no sign of any improvement. |
There are so many areas that are going to be calling on a Labour government to prioritise their needs. Going to be interesting to see who, or which, is given the most priority.
Not forgetting that it all has to be paid for, presumably without putting up taxes too much. |  |
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| The UK court system on 17:44 - Apr 19 with 817 views | redrickstuhaart |
| The UK court system on 17:27 - Apr 19 by Pinewoodblue |
There are so many areas that are going to be calling on a Labour government to prioritise their needs. Going to be interesting to see who, or which, is given the most priority.
Not forgetting that it all has to be paid for, presumably without putting up taxes too much. |
The problems started long before Covid. Its about funding, resources, lack of investment and maintenance ove ra very long period, and a false assumption that technology is the panacea to everything. | | | |
| The UK court system on 17:50 - Apr 19 with 778 views | PhilTWTD |
| The UK court system on 17:12 - Apr 19 by cressi |
I was talking to a solicitor and have on good authority it wasn't covid that got the courts in this muddle that's a excuse he said it's this totally inept Tory government and said the courts were 65 thousand cases behind, I've been saying for quite a while this country is bollo*s and no sign of any improvement. |
It probably is being used as an excuse for the overall issue but I think Covid did cause further and more significant delays. | | | |
| The UK court system on 19:06 - Apr 19 with 637 views | NorthLondonBlue2 |
| The UK court system on 17:50 - Apr 19 by PhilTWTD |
It probably is being used as an excuse for the overall issue but I think Covid did cause further and more significant delays. |
Covid was very disruptive for sure but in no way was or is it the cause of the current problems. I say that as a practising barrister, albeit one who stepped away from regular criminal legal aid work a few years ago as the writing was on the wall even then. In my field, we carried on throughout the pandemic with remote hearings to fill the gap.
Notably, the government has also tried to blame the spiralling NHS waiting lists on the doctors’ strikes which is equally untrue, even if there were some delays as a result. | | | |
| The UK court system on 19:42 - Apr 19 with 562 views | PhilTWTD |
| The UK court system on 19:06 - Apr 19 by NorthLondonBlue2 |
Covid was very disruptive for sure but in no way was or is it the cause of the current problems. I say that as a practising barrister, albeit one who stepped away from regular criminal legal aid work a few years ago as the writing was on the wall even then. In my field, we carried on throughout the pandemic with remote hearings to fill the gap.
Notably, the government has also tried to blame the spiralling NHS waiting lists on the doctors’ strikes which is equally untrue, even if there were some delays as a result. |
I don't think it comes as any surprise that it is being used as an excuse for the overall problems. | | | |
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