| Evertons financial situation 😲 20:28 - Apr 18 with 3584 views | gtsb1966 |
£30 million a month in operational costs alone and now the takeover might not happen. Reading this makes me realise how much of a mess they are in.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68835735 |  | | |  |
| Evertons financial situation 😲 on 21:00 - Apr 18 with 3042 views | Illinoisblue |
As with most football finances, none of it makes any sense. Losing millions every month but also spending millions every month on building a new stadium. |  |
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| Evertons financial situation 😲 on 21:21 - Apr 18 with 2896 views | Bigalhunter |
| Evertons financial situation 😲 on 21:00 - Apr 18 by Illinoisblue |
As with most football finances, none of it makes any sense. Losing millions every month but also spending millions every month on building a new stadium. |
It sort of remains oddly sustainable until the inevitable season where expectations are not met.
Everton ticked along quite happily under Moyes and Martinez and started budgeting on a top 6 finish and a European spot.
One poor season and they’re breaking the bank giving Koeman, Benitez and Ancellotti ridiculous budgets. Ancellotti spots the clusterfook almost immediately and bails, then suddenly you’re putting all your hope in the likes of Lampard and Dyche to rescue you.
I think Chelsea might be following that downward spiral now. ManUtd will probably crawl their way out of the hole they’ve created, Chelsea less so.
Modern football innit. |  | | |
| Evertons financial situation 😲 on 21:27 - Apr 18 with 2856 views | Plums |
| Evertons financial situation 😲 on 21:21 - Apr 18 by Bigalhunter |
It sort of remains oddly sustainable until the inevitable season where expectations are not met.
Everton ticked along quite happily under Moyes and Martinez and started budgeting on a top 6 finish and a European spot.
One poor season and they’re breaking the bank giving Koeman, Benitez and Ancellotti ridiculous budgets. Ancellotti spots the clusterfook almost immediately and bails, then suddenly you’re putting all your hope in the likes of Lampard and Dyche to rescue you.
I think Chelsea might be following that downward spiral now. ManUtd will probably crawl their way out of the hole they’ve created, Chelsea less so.
Modern football innit. |
I'm not an accountant so can never understand how CFOs and auditors, both of whom are usually paid large sums are ever professionally able to sign off on this level of recklessness. Surely they have a fiduciary duty to protect the organisation? |  |
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| Evertons financial situation 😲 on 21:37 - Apr 18 with 2785 views | Bigalhunter |
| Evertons financial situation 😲 on 21:27 - Apr 18 by Plums |
I'm not an accountant so can never understand how CFOs and auditors, both of whom are usually paid large sums are ever professionally able to sign off on this level of recklessness. Surely they have a fiduciary duty to protect the organisation? |
I imagine all standard financial logic goes out of the window the minute the money men snuggle their Bentleys into the reserved parking spot at the stadium. Almost makes Truss and Kwarteng look like bastions of financial prudence.
It’s the old adage, how do you become a millionaire by owning a football club? Start out as a billionaire. | | | |
| Evertons financial situation 😲 on 21:56 - Apr 18 with 2661 views | stonojnr |
| Evertons financial situation 😲 on 21:27 - Apr 18 by Plums |
I'm not an accountant so can never understand how CFOs and auditors, both of whom are usually paid large sums are ever professionally able to sign off on this level of recklessness. Surely they have a fiduciary duty to protect the organisation? |
well quite, its the ******* law theyre supposed to !!!
couldnt believe the stories in the papers this week where theyre literally on a knife edge now whether theyre going into administration or not and its not over a few million its like 60-160 million, how have they got that much debt ?? |  | | |
| Evertons financial situation 😲 on 22:01 - Apr 18 with 2625 views | Reus30 |
| Evertons financial situation 😲 on 21:27 - Apr 18 by Plums |
I'm not an accountant so can never understand how CFOs and auditors, both of whom are usually paid large sums are ever professionally able to sign off on this level of recklessness. Surely they have a fiduciary duty to protect the organisation? |
They do have a duty of care. But they don't care.
The people who sign off on the work are so rich it doesn't matter if anything comes to light and if something does come to light, they can blame it any number of graduates or middle management who did the actual work. It's why this Big 4 bull is exactly that, bull.
If any accountancy issues ever make the news (Patisserie valerie from a couple of years back), its normally an "oh no...... anyway, here's some many, make this go away".
Accountability in most professions doesn't really exist anymore. |  | | |
| Dominic Calvert Lewin is on £86k a week; total weekly wage bill £1.4m on 22:06 - Apr 18 with 2588 views | unstableblue |
Its the wages!
They're out of control
£73.62m wage bill per year for Everton |  |
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| Evertons financial situation 😲 on 22:06 - Apr 18 with 2583 views | jayessess |
Really brings home how mad some of these figures are when you express them as weekly wage bills.
According to those recent accounts, Everton's wage bill is more than £3m a week and they're still rubbish! |  |
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| Evertons financial situation 😲 on 22:21 - Apr 18 with 2510 views | HighgateBlue |
When we were in the Prem last time, we played the game. Not even to a huge extent, but to some extent. We ended up in administration.
I do worry that this total recklessness on the part of some clubs makes all the others feel like they have to keep up, and just keeps the whole merry go round going until it crashes. It's categorically a good thing that FFP is finally being policed, and those who do not listen will suffer the consequences.
Either that, or the owners of these entities just don't mind huge losses because it's all just money laundering anyway... |  | | |
| Evertons financial situation 😲 on 22:32 - Apr 18 with 2429 views | MVBlue |
| Evertons financial situation 😲 on 21:21 - Apr 18 by Bigalhunter |
It sort of remains oddly sustainable until the inevitable season where expectations are not met.
Everton ticked along quite happily under Moyes and Martinez and started budgeting on a top 6 finish and a European spot.
One poor season and they’re breaking the bank giving Koeman, Benitez and Ancellotti ridiculous budgets. Ancellotti spots the clusterfook almost immediately and bails, then suddenly you’re putting all your hope in the likes of Lampard and Dyche to rescue you.
I think Chelsea might be following that downward spiral now. ManUtd will probably crawl their way out of the hole they’ve created, Chelsea less so.
Modern football innit. |
James Rodriguez and Carlo Ancelotti were peak Everton, looked like they were about to really do something. How Ancelotti came to be there is the biggest mismatch of modern football. The AC Milan, Juventus, Bayern Munich and previous Real Madrid manager went to Neverton!!
I relish the chance for an update or more wide covering book on his career, the Everton part will be quite a write up. |  |
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| Evertons financial situation 😲 on 06:45 - Apr 19 with 1939 views | franz_tyson |
Here's just one example of Everton's stupidity. Luke Garbutt. At age 21, it's likely a PL side would part company with a young player of that age who hadn't broke through. However, they decided to give him a 5 year contract of 28k per week. Lower league player who's now at Salford in L2 and who is also a multi-millionaire thanks to Everton. | | | |
| Evertons financial situation 😲 on 08:05 - Apr 19 with 1809 views | Churchman |
| Evertons financial situation 😲 on 06:45 - Apr 19 by franz_tyson |
Here's just one example of Everton's stupidity. Luke Garbutt. At age 21, it's likely a PL side would part company with a young player of that age who hadn't broke through. However, they decided to give him a 5 year contract of 28k per week. Lower league player who's now at Salford in L2 and who is also a multi-millionaire thanks to Everton. |
They also bought Dele Alli, who some think would be a good signing for us should the unimaginable occur. £40m fee and two appearances as sub in two years all for £5m a year in wages.
I loathe Everton. Always have. They’re a sort of nothing, identity free club in many ways (since the mid 80s) with a sense of entitlement way beyond all reason. The seeds of loathing may go back to the time and the way they tried to sign Bobby Robson in the 70s or just something about them I don’t like. I think the latter
I hope they finish in the National League getting lorded over by Bromley Town. |  | | |
| Evertons financial situation 😲 on 08:42 - Apr 19 with 1696 views | Europablue |
| Evertons financial situation 😲 on 22:21 - Apr 18 by HighgateBlue |
When we were in the Prem last time, we played the game. Not even to a huge extent, but to some extent. We ended up in administration.
I do worry that this total recklessness on the part of some clubs makes all the others feel like they have to keep up, and just keeps the whole merry go round going until it crashes. It's categorically a good thing that FFP is finally being policed, and those who do not listen will suffer the consequences.
Either that, or the owners of these entities just don't mind huge losses because it's all just money laundering anyway... |
There should be a clear rule that clubs have to be sustainable without outside "investment". It's fine for clubs to spend more in some years and inevitably there will be some seasons that are financially better than others, but over a 10 year period each club should have to break even.
It's ridiculous to hear CEOs saying that every bit of money we spend on the club goes into making us more competitive when we are losing millions every year. It's not ITFCs fault, but we are part of the problem for better or for worse. | | | |
| Evertons financial situation 😲 on 09:12 - Apr 19 with 1609 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Evertons financial situation 😲 on 22:01 - Apr 18 by Reus30 |
They do have a duty of care. But they don't care.
The people who sign off on the work are so rich it doesn't matter if anything comes to light and if something does come to light, they can blame it any number of graduates or middle management who did the actual work. It's why this Big 4 bull is exactly that, bull.
If any accountancy issues ever make the news (Patisserie valerie from a couple of years back), its normally an "oh no...... anyway, here's some many, make this go away".
Accountability in most professions doesn't really exist anymore. |
I am not an accountant but do work for one (not big 4)
RE PTV, that was internal fraud with a sophisticated cover up, an auditors role is not detect fraud per se but to confirm that what the company is reporting is an accurate reflection of the businesses finnancial situation, you're effectively marking their home work and checking through the paperwork so in that instance if you have a series of paperwork that reconciles it may get missed as everything adds up and that is tbe primary purpose of the audit. There can be obvious signs of fraud and if an auditor sees those they are of course obliged to flag that to necessary authorities. Auditors should also always treat their clients with a degree of skepticism, ask questions and not just take their word for it and it'd often hear that there is failure.
There are also sometimes the tacit approval of shall we say, unconventional accounting practices (see Enron and if you haven't watched it see if you can find the smartest guys in the room which is v interesting).
As for Everton, they can advise but ultimately they are not the businesses owner and can really only confirm the accounts to be accurate.
Even if Everton go into admin they won't go bust but worst case from the accountants POV is they lose a client which they will easily replace and maybe, if they have made a mistake will get a fine that is insignificant compared to their profit.
It's the coziness of long term relationships which are often most damaging when it comes to auditing. |  |
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| Evertons financial situation 😲 on 09:16 - Apr 19 with 1594 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Evertons financial situation 😲 on 08:05 - Apr 19 by Churchman |
They also bought Dele Alli, who some think would be a good signing for us should the unimaginable occur. £40m fee and two appearances as sub in two years all for £5m a year in wages.
I loathe Everton. Always have. They’re a sort of nothing, identity free club in many ways (since the mid 80s) with a sense of entitlement way beyond all reason. The seeds of loathing may go back to the time and the way they tried to sign Bobby Robson in the 70s or just something about them I don’t like. I think the latter
I hope they finish in the National League getting lorded over by Bromley Town. |
Isn't the Dele fee only applicable under certain circumstances which is has come to nowhere near meeting? So far, wages aside I thought he was effectively a free transfer or v nominal fee. I dont think those additional payment metrics will ever get triggered | |
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| Evertons financial situation 😲 on 09:18 - Apr 19 with 1584 views | jayessess |
| Evertons financial situation 😲 on 08:42 - Apr 19 by Europablue |
There should be a clear rule that clubs have to be sustainable without outside "investment". It's fine for clubs to spend more in some years and inevitably there will be some seasons that are financially better than others, but over a 10 year period each club should have to break even.
It's ridiculous to hear CEOs saying that every bit of money we spend on the club goes into making us more competitive when we are losing millions every year. It's not ITFCs fault, but we are part of the problem for better or for worse. |
The thing that really gets me about Everton's wage bill (and similar with Leicester's) is value for money.
If you're spending £2m a week on your first team's wages, that's an average of around £80k p/w for each member of your first team squad. Yet you cast your eye over their players and you'd wonder who on Earth is pulling down that sort of money. [Post edited 19 Apr 9:18]
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| Evertons financial situation 😲 on 09:22 - Apr 19 with 1569 views | ElderGrizzly |
Appears to be loans taken out to pay loans too and with the prospective owners seemingly needing a loan to buy them, which will need to pay off another loan first.
The joys of Private Equity going wrong. |  | | |
| Dominic Calvert Lewin is on £86k a week; total weekly wage bill £1.4m on 09:25 - Apr 19 with 1564 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Dominic Calvert Lewin is on £86k a week; total weekly wage bill £1.4m on 22:06 - Apr 18 by unstableblue |
Its the wages!
They're out of control
£73.62m wage bill per year for Everton |
As a % compared to revenue, their wages are in a better shape than us and a lot of teams in the PL who have wages 100%+ of revenue.
It's the debt from the stadium and other borrowings that are killing them | | | |
| Evertons financial situation 😲 on 12:17 - Apr 19 with 1358 views | Freddies_Ears |
| Evertons financial situation 😲 on 08:05 - Apr 19 by Churchman |
They also bought Dele Alli, who some think would be a good signing for us should the unimaginable occur. £40m fee and two appearances as sub in two years all for £5m a year in wages.
I loathe Everton. Always have. They’re a sort of nothing, identity free club in many ways (since the mid 80s) with a sense of entitlement way beyond all reason. The seeds of loathing may go back to the time and the way they tried to sign Bobby Robson in the 70s or just something about them I don’t like. I think the latter
I hope they finish in the National League getting lorded over by Bromley Town. |
They didn't pay anything for Dele - the deal was based on appearances, and didn't get triggered as he made fewer than 10! | | | |
| Evertons financial situation 😲 on 12:21 - Apr 19 with 1333 views | Freddies_Ears |
| Evertons financial situation 😲 on 09:22 - Apr 19 by ElderGrizzly |
Appears to be loans taken out to pay loans too and with the prospective owners seemingly needing a loan to buy them, which will need to pay off another loan first.
The joys of Private Equity going wrong. |
Per The Athletic a few days ago, they have borrowed from various sources, some a bit opaque, and a chunk of their 500m debt attracts 10% interest.
So, Everton's annual interest bill is several times higher than Tottenham's (mostly borrowed around 1%), with the main difference being that Everton's stadium is unfinished and ot completely financed thus far. | | | |
| Dominic Calvert Lewin is on £86k a week; total weekly wage bill £1.4m on 12:30 - Apr 19 with 1289 views | _clive_baker_ |
| Dominic Calvert Lewin is on £86k a week; total weekly wage bill £1.4m on 09:25 - Apr 19 by ElderGrizzly |
As a % compared to revenue, their wages are in a better shape than us and a lot of teams in the PL who have wages 100%+ of revenue.
It's the debt from the stadium and other borrowings that are killing them |
And that debt is now way more expensive to service thanks to the rise in interest rates. Not that I have any sympathy with them of course. You're right though, their wage bill isn't particularly out of kilter by middling PL standards, of course they're all absurd in real terms.
I wonder if there will ever come a time where a manager or player tries to take owners to court for reputational damage and loss of earnings off the back of FFP punishments. Dyche might find himself with a relegation on his CV despite a league season that, were it not for deductions, would've seen them well safe. Similarly with players who have relegation related salary reductions, you would be livid if yours is triggered and you're a Championship player thanks to mismanagement in the board room. |  | | |
| Evertons financial situation 😲 on 12:35 - Apr 19 with 1256 views | SmithersJones |
| Evertons financial situation 😲 on 08:42 - Apr 19 by Europablue |
There should be a clear rule that clubs have to be sustainable without outside "investment". It's fine for clubs to spend more in some years and inevitably there will be some seasons that are financially better than others, but over a 10 year period each club should have to break even.
It's ridiculous to hear CEOs saying that every bit of money we spend on the club goes into making us more competitive when we are losing millions every year. It's not ITFCs fault, but we are part of the problem for better or for worse. |
TBF what you've described is pretty much the current FFP rules but without the allowable losses. Not saying this is good or bad but when you say "There should be a clear rule ..." there already is! And Everton seem to spend most of the time justifying why it shouldn't apply to them. | | | |
| Evertons financial situation 😲 on 13:00 - Apr 19 with 1165 views | Zx1988 |
| Evertons financial situation 😲 on 09:12 - Apr 19 by BlueandTruesince82 |
I am not an accountant but do work for one (not big 4)
RE PTV, that was internal fraud with a sophisticated cover up, an auditors role is not detect fraud per se but to confirm that what the company is reporting is an accurate reflection of the businesses finnancial situation, you're effectively marking their home work and checking through the paperwork so in that instance if you have a series of paperwork that reconciles it may get missed as everything adds up and that is tbe primary purpose of the audit. There can be obvious signs of fraud and if an auditor sees those they are of course obliged to flag that to necessary authorities. Auditors should also always treat their clients with a degree of skepticism, ask questions and not just take their word for it and it'd often hear that there is failure.
There are also sometimes the tacit approval of shall we say, unconventional accounting practices (see Enron and if you haven't watched it see if you can find the smartest guys in the room which is v interesting).
As for Everton, they can advise but ultimately they are not the businesses owner and can really only confirm the accounts to be accurate.
Even if Everton go into admin they won't go bust but worst case from the accountants POV is they lose a client which they will easily replace and maybe, if they have made a mistake will get a fine that is insignificant compared to their profit.
It's the coziness of long term relationships which are often most damaging when it comes to auditing. |
I agree regarding the long-term relationships - there needs to be something brought in which compels an organisation to change the auditor after a set period of time.
The RICS has recently done similar with the Red Book (the valuers' Bible), which states that (if my memory serves me correctly) the same valuer may not carry out balance-sheet valuations for more than five years in succession. | |
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| Evertons financial situation 😲 on 13:04 - Apr 19 with 1135 views | _clive_baker_ |
| Evertons financial situation 😲 on 13:00 - Apr 19 by Zx1988 |
I agree regarding the long-term relationships - there needs to be something brought in which compels an organisation to change the auditor after a set period of time.
The RICS has recently done similar with the Red Book (the valuers' Bible), which states that (if my memory serves me correctly) the same valuer may not carry out balance-sheet valuations for more than five years in succession. |
I think there already is, it was always 10 years in my day. Arguably that's too long though, and might have changed as I've not worked in audit for over 10 years now. | | | |
| Evertons financial situation 😲 on 13:33 - Apr 19 with 1057 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Evertons financial situation 😲 on 13:00 - Apr 19 by Zx1988 |
I agree regarding the long-term relationships - there needs to be something brought in which compels an organisation to change the auditor after a set period of time.
The RICS has recently done similar with the Red Book (the valuers' Bible), which states that (if my memory serves me correctly) the same valuer may not carry out balance-sheet valuations for more than five years in succession. |
There are changes on the horizon which should help break the big 4 monopoly somewhat where there may certain aspects of the work that will get picked up by smaller firms as they partner but the risk there is that you get coziness between firms. There is already an element of this and even time we get a major accounting scandal that involves poor practice we hear talk of change but its is very slow.
I agree that companies should have to change firms every say 4 or 5 years to ensure fresh eyes.
Truth is there is more wok out there than accountants to do it.
If you have kids with an aptitude for figures or an interest in economics or business I can tell you know they will always find work going into accountancy. | |
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