| I was referring entirely to…. on 11:47 - Feb 28 with 1151 views | PhilTWTD |
| I was referring entirely to…. on 11:36 - Feb 28 by Bloots |
…modern society rather than BR.
The journo in question has said she wasn’t offended, so people are doing it on her behalf. Probably makes them feel superior to her.
Personally I think he was using “football language” and if he was saying “good boy” it wouldn’t have been deemed condescending.
But that just makes me sexist I guess. |
Not sure it's about taking offence as such, it's about someone being called out for unprofessional and demeaning behaviour. 'Good boy' doesn't have quite the same connotations, does it? Obviously there are historical power and gender relation aspects to this sort of thing, but without going into those sorts of depths, it's self-evidently patronising, isn't it? |  | |  |
| I'm not a fan of Brendan Rodgers on 11:49 - Feb 28 with 1136 views | Zapers |
| I'm not a fan of Brendan Rodgers on 11:35 - Feb 28 by Herbivore |
Interesting to see one of the anti-bullying brigade making a joke at the expense of trans and non-binary individuals. |
That's a stretch, even for you herb;)
The post that i was replying to was in no way a reference to trans and non-binary, but you know that. |  | | |
| I'm not a fan of Brendan Rodgers on 11:51 - Feb 28 with 1132 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| I'm not a fan of Brendan Rodgers on 11:49 - Feb 28 by Zapers |
That's a stretch, even for you herb;)
The post that i was replying to was in no way a reference to trans and non-binary, but you know that. |
You don't have to respond to a post on a subject to introduce that subject into a thread - you of all people, who call out other people for doing the very same thing, but you know that... |  |
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| I try not to engage with you…. on 11:52 - Feb 28 with 1130 views | Bloots |
| I was referring entirely to…. on 11:42 - Feb 28 by Herbivore |
You think the feminist organisation that have highlighted the comments have done so in order to feel superior? That's a hot take. |
….wherever possible, for obvious reasons, but if you’re civil then I will on this occasion.
I know many women, some very close, that feel patronised by feminist groups speaking on their behalf. They are more than capable of dealing with these potential issues if and when they see fit.
My wife, as an example, refuses to attend “women in business” events because she finds them condescending and belittling to her actual role in her business. A role that she has attained due to her skills and nothing else.
The journo in question wasn’t offended, nobody has the right to speak on her behalf, whether they are a feminist group or not. |  |
| Enduringly lovable, intelligent and thunderingly exquisite. |
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| I don’t see a huge difference… on 11:58 - Feb 28 with 1115 views | Bloots |
| I was referring entirely to…. on 11:47 - Feb 28 by PhilTWTD |
Not sure it's about taking offence as such, it's about someone being called out for unprofessional and demeaning behaviour. 'Good boy' doesn't have quite the same connotations, does it? Obviously there are historical power and gender relation aspects to this sort of thing, but without going into those sorts of depths, it's self-evidently patronising, isn't it? |
….between good boy and good girl in this instance.
Both are indeed condescending, I’m not disputing that.
As is often the case, I’m talking specifically about this incident not a wider issue.
We’ll have to disagree I reckon. | |
| Enduringly lovable, intelligent and thunderingly exquisite. |
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| I try not to engage with you…. on 11:58 - Feb 28 with 1115 views | Herbivore |
| I try not to engage with you…. on 11:52 - Feb 28 by Bloots |
….wherever possible, for obvious reasons, but if you’re civil then I will on this occasion.
I know many women, some very close, that feel patronised by feminist groups speaking on their behalf. They are more than capable of dealing with these potential issues if and when they see fit.
My wife, as an example, refuses to attend “women in business” events because she finds them condescending and belittling to her actual role in her business. A role that she has attained due to her skills and nothing else.
The journo in question wasn’t offended, nobody has the right to speak on her behalf, whether they are a feminist group or not. |
But they aren't speaking on her behalf, they are speaking more generally about the kind of condescending language women in certain spheres of life are expected to put up with. |  |
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| I don’t see a huge difference… on 12:04 - Feb 28 with 1108 views | PhilTWTD |
| I don’t see a huge difference… on 11:58 - Feb 28 by Bloots |
….between good boy and good girl in this instance.
Both are indeed condescending, I’m not disputing that.
As is often the case, I’m talking specifically about this incident not a wider issue.
We’ll have to disagree I reckon. |
I don't think were miles apart, to be honest. I think 'good boy' can be seen more as banter, whereas I don't think 'good girl' could be. I'm not disputing managers can be similarly condescending and demeaning towards male reporters when they don't like their questions, I've been on the end of that sort of thing myself, regularly from one former incumbent. | | | |
| I don’t see a huge difference… on 12:15 - Feb 28 with 1077 views | Zapers |
| I don’t see a huge difference… on 12:04 - Feb 28 by PhilTWTD |
I don't think were miles apart, to be honest. I think 'good boy' can be seen more as banter, whereas I don't think 'good girl' could be. I'm not disputing managers can be similarly condescending and demeaning towards male reporters when they don't like their questions, I've been on the end of that sort of thing myself, regularly from one former incumbent. |
And we all know who that was! | | | |
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| I'm not a fan of Brendan Rodgers on 12:22 - Feb 28 with 1061 views | VanSaParody |
Anyone who is offended on any subject, "on behalf of" any, so called "victim" is wrong.
There, that's that solved.
So just stop it
In this case, having watched the interview in question, she clearly pushed far too much with a question he'd already said he would not answer, & had repeated himself to that effect.
It seems interviewers think they have to push their interviewee almost to the point of arguing (especially politicians) as if they have no respect at all for who they're pointing a microphone at, & are just more interested in making sure they come across as an interviewer of note, in order to further their own reputation/career.
If it had been a male interviewer, BR would have said "we're done, good lad" as he walked away & nothing would have been made of it other than perhaps journalists using it as a training exercise in how not to push too far
COYB's! [Post edited 28 Feb 12:24]
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| I'm not a fan of Brendan Rodgers on 12:36 - Feb 28 with 1024 views | Nutkins_Return |
| I'm not a fan of Brendan Rodgers on 11:14 - Feb 28 by Herbivore |
Who is annoyed? I'm certainly not, but the "you can't say anything anymore" brigade seems to be quite exercised by it. I think your both sidesing is both incorrect and quite unhelpful. There is a lot of energy being expended on outrage towards a pretty minor reaction to a condescending remark made by a man in a powerful position to a female journalist. By contrast there is one organisation saying they're a bit fed up of casual sexism and somehow they are being painted as the ones up in arms. Nobody is calling for Rodgers' head, nobody is saying he's a disgrace, some feminists are just a bit exasperated at that kind of patronising tone being taken with a female journalist is 2024. [Post edited 28 Feb 11:45]
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I'm not "both sidesing". I'm sick of both sides. Or more accurately this all or nothing one view approach in society.
You are annoyed, you are writing lengthy post expressing it. I'm annoyed by it all.
I don't disagree with everything you've said. That journalist might have taken offence to Brendan saying 'good girl'. I think it is a phrase that could be condenscending with the context of an existing relationship for sure.
I see you are throwing in the 'disgrace' thing again....that's deliberate hyperbole despite me already explaining I didn't say they said that. And 'pretty minor reaction' making public statements that have caused national attention. Come on mate. He was accused of 'demeaning women' and 'we thought dinosaurs were extinct' for this. Is that balanced and sensible to put out in a public statement about him to the nation for this 'offence'? You genuinely don't think my previous suggestion of offering the context, confirming no offence was taken by journalist but just a bit of education on it wouldn't have been a better approach. [Post edited 28 Feb 12:42]
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| I'm not a fan of Brendan Rodgers on 12:37 - Feb 28 with 1023 views | blueasfook |
| I'm not a fan of Brendan Rodgers on 11:35 - Feb 28 by Herbivore |
Interesting to see one of the anti-bullying brigade making a joke at the expense of trans and non-binary individuals. |
The anti bullying brigade is me and Bloots. Stop bullying posters. |  |
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| I try not to engage with you…. on 12:39 - Feb 28 with 1018 views | Nutkins_Return |
| I try not to engage with you…. on 11:52 - Feb 28 by Bloots |
….wherever possible, for obvious reasons, but if you’re civil then I will on this occasion.
I know many women, some very close, that feel patronised by feminist groups speaking on their behalf. They are more than capable of dealing with these potential issues if and when they see fit.
My wife, as an example, refuses to attend “women in business” events because she finds them condescending and belittling to her actual role in her business. A role that she has attained due to her skills and nothing else.
The journo in question wasn’t offended, nobody has the right to speak on her behalf, whether they are a feminist group or not. |
I think they have a right to educate and use it as an example. But they knew what they were doing with lines like 'we thought dinosaurs were extinct' and just whipping it up. Just unhelpful to the whole thing. | | | |
| Culture wars. (n/t) on 12:46 - Feb 28 with 999 views | Bloots |
| I'm not a fan of Brendan Rodgers on 12:36 - Feb 28 by Nutkins_Return |
I'm not "both sidesing". I'm sick of both sides. Or more accurately this all or nothing one view approach in society.
You are annoyed, you are writing lengthy post expressing it. I'm annoyed by it all.
I don't disagree with everything you've said. That journalist might have taken offence to Brendan saying 'good girl'. I think it is a phrase that could be condenscending with the context of an existing relationship for sure.
I see you are throwing in the 'disgrace' thing again....that's deliberate hyperbole despite me already explaining I didn't say they said that. And 'pretty minor reaction' making public statements that have caused national attention. Come on mate. He was accused of 'demeaning women' and 'we thought dinosaurs were extinct' for this. Is that balanced and sensible to put out in a public statement about him to the nation for this 'offence'? You genuinely don't think my previous suggestion of offering the context, confirming no offence was taken by journalist but just a bit of education on it wouldn't have been a better approach. [Post edited 28 Feb 12:42]
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| Enduringly lovable, intelligent and thunderingly exquisite. |
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| There’s very little balance…. on 12:50 - Feb 28 with 992 views | Bloots |
| I try not to engage with you…. on 12:39 - Feb 28 by Nutkins_Return |
I think they have a right to educate and use it as an example. But they knew what they were doing with lines like 'we thought dinosaurs were extinct' and just whipping it up. Just unhelpful to the whole thing. |
…or nuance to any modern day discussions.
Of course if you do try and offer any then you just get accused of “both siding”, which is plainly just the response of a fool that refuses to acknowledge any opinion other than his/her own.
Everything has to be black or white. | |
| Enduringly lovable, intelligent and thunderingly exquisite. |
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| I don’t see a huge difference… on 12:50 - Feb 28 with 990 views | ChorleyBoy |
| I don’t see a huge difference… on 12:04 - Feb 28 by PhilTWTD |
I don't think were miles apart, to be honest. I think 'good boy' can be seen more as banter, whereas I don't think 'good girl' could be. I'm not disputing managers can be similarly condescending and demeaning towards male reporters when they don't like their questions, I've been on the end of that sort of thing myself, regularly from one former incumbent. |
I think if it had been a male journo he'd quite probably have said good man, but even if he's said good boy it should be a non story. Like I said earlier, there's no equivalent to good man, we just don't say "good woman" in the context of meaning "thanks, that's enough!"
There's a genocide going on but Brendan Rodgers' post match comments are causing a bigger story today. Is society so disinterested in the murder of tens of thousands of Palestinian children that we're grabbing onto this story to feel some sort of moral feel good fix for compensation?
Our media and political class have failed us and as a result society is desperately sick.
I'm not having a pop at you personally, Phil. I'm just disappointed with the world and its priorities. |  | | |
| I'm not a fan of Brendan Rodgers on 13:03 - Feb 28 with 964 views | farkenhell |
| I'm not a fan of Brendan Rodgers on 11:28 - Feb 28 by PhilTWTD |
It's a false equivalence though, isn't it? Saying 'good girl' in that context was an obvious attempt at belittling the interviewer. |
Oh yes, don't get me wrong, what he said was both patronising (using "girl" in that context) and sexist (I don't think he would have said"good boy" when becoming flustered with a male interviewer).
My point was rather looking at a different context. If Rodgers had said "good lady", could that have fairly been called sexist? It's probably a moot point because, as someone else said, "good lady" isn't a commonly-used phrase in those circumstances. However, let's say that you interviewed Sarina Wiegman and she became flustered in a similar way, then as a parting shot she said "bye, good man". Would that be sexist? I don't think anyone would have objected in the same way that they might have done if Rodgers had said "good lady".
Btw, unlikely scenario I know, because Sarina Wiegman is very level-headed. And, of course, you wouldn't dream of causing any of your interviewees to become flustered! | | | |
| I'm not a fan of Brendan Rodgers on 13:11 - Feb 28 with 955 views | PhilTWTD |
| I'm not a fan of Brendan Rodgers on 13:03 - Feb 28 by farkenhell |
Oh yes, don't get me wrong, what he said was both patronising (using "girl" in that context) and sexist (I don't think he would have said"good boy" when becoming flustered with a male interviewer).
My point was rather looking at a different context. If Rodgers had said "good lady", could that have fairly been called sexist? It's probably a moot point because, as someone else said, "good lady" isn't a commonly-used phrase in those circumstances. However, let's say that you interviewed Sarina Wiegman and she became flustered in a similar way, then as a parting shot she said "bye, good man". Would that be sexist? I don't think anyone would have objected in the same way that they might have done if Rodgers had said "good lady".
Btw, unlikely scenario I know, because Sarina Wiegman is very level-headed. And, of course, you wouldn't dream of causing any of your interviewees to become flustered! |
The use of 'girl' was obviously intented to diminish and patronise, which 'lady' wouldn't have done. Not sure you can mirror the incident re Wiegman in quite that way but a female manager could equally be as condescending to a male reporter, or a female one for that matter. But in this instance it was a male manager using a sexist term to patronise a female reporter. | | | |
| I don’t see a huge difference… on 13:12 - Feb 28 with 951 views | PhilTWTD |
| I don’t see a huge difference… on 12:50 - Feb 28 by ChorleyBoy |
I think if it had been a male journo he'd quite probably have said good man, but even if he's said good boy it should be a non story. Like I said earlier, there's no equivalent to good man, we just don't say "good woman" in the context of meaning "thanks, that's enough!"
There's a genocide going on but Brendan Rodgers' post match comments are causing a bigger story today. Is society so disinterested in the murder of tens of thousands of Palestinian children that we're grabbing onto this story to feel some sort of moral feel good fix for compensation?
Our media and political class have failed us and as a result society is desperately sick.
I'm not having a pop at you personally, Phil. I'm just disappointed with the world and its priorities. |
I take the point that there are bigger things going on in the world, but that doesn't mean other things shouldn't be called out or highlighted. | | | |
| I'm not a fan of Brendan Rodgers on 13:15 - Feb 28 with 946 views | NorrisHatter |
| I'm not a fan of Brendan Rodgers on 09:25 - Feb 28 by ChorleyBoy |
You've managed to say in 50 words what I did in 300. Good lad! |
Interesting. As someone from Woodbridge originally who has lived in Stockport for nearly 50 years I have found that "lad" does the trick as its applied equally to men of ages from their teens to their nineties. "Evening lads" when greeting a group of friends is not in anyway condescending.
In the same way (though less common) "lass" can be used for ladies of all ages without causing offence I've found.
Therefore neither lad nor lass has the condescending potential of referring to people as boys or girls who are clearly more than say 20 years old. So that's what I use and so far in 50 years its not caused a problem.
Doubtless someone will disagree with that and say I've just got away with it for 50 years. Somehow I don't think so. People can tell from your tone, your facial expression and your attitude what's in your heart.
Maybe in NI where Mr Rodgers is from what he said is common and accepted usage. Or maybe he was pretty irritated by being asked the same question six times when he made it clear he wasn't going to answer that specific enquiry. So his comment showed his irritation perhaps.
"I've said I won't answer that question several times now, so its pretty poor of you to waste your interview time by persisting with it" might have been better if he had wanted to make his point perhaps, but one tends only to think of that sort of reply afterwards. | | | |
| There’s very little balance…. on 13:19 - Feb 28 with 938 views | Herbivore |
| There’s very little balance…. on 12:50 - Feb 28 by Bloots |
…or nuance to any modern day discussions.
Of course if you do try and offer any then you just get accused of “both siding”, which is plainly just the response of a fool that refuses to acknowledge any opinion other than his/her own.
Everything has to be black or white. |
Back to your not so subtle digs. Top work. | |
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| I'm not a fan of Brendan Rodgers on 13:38 - Feb 28 with 894 views | WeWereZombies |
| I'm not a fan of Brendan Rodgers on 13:11 - Feb 28 by PhilTWTD |
The use of 'girl' was obviously intented to diminish and patronise, which 'lady' wouldn't have done. Not sure you can mirror the incident re Wiegman in quite that way but a female manager could equally be as condescending to a male reporter, or a female one for that matter. But in this instance it was a male manager using a sexist term to patronise a female reporter. |
Does 'diminish and patronise' overweight what Rodgers was trying to do ? He was clearly annoyed (but only mildly annoyed) about the direction the interview was taking and wanted to convey (in my opinion) that the interviewer had not taken his initial response onboard and was trying to get a personal take from Rodgers about how he felt about his recent critics. He didn't want to inflame a delicate situation and, by the look of it, wanted to get back to the dressing room without delay to continue a post match post mortem on what had been an unconvincing win. So the 'good girl' was an impatient short cut that I took as meaning 'you have played to a set of your viewers (and maybe a studio boss) who want to see me wound up and you have moved the words slightly each time, well done you...'
I think an argument can be made that Jane Lewis was also being patronising towards Rodgers and, as she was nominally in charge of the interview, she pushed that particular point too far.
EDIT: auto correct of 'and board' corrected to 'onboard' [Post edited 28 Feb 13:41]
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| I'm not a fan of Brendan Rodgers on 13:40 - Feb 28 with 875 views | BiGDonnie |
Did he just presume her gender? |  |
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| I'm not a fan of Brendan Rodgers on 14:07 - Feb 28 with 842 views | BiGDonnie |
| I'm not a fan of Brendan Rodgers on 10:45 - Feb 28 by PhilTWTD |
Not really the same though, is it? If he said 'Good little chap' or something similar to that that would be a rough equivalent. |
No lie, I was got called 'big chap' over email the other day. Took it as a compliment. | |
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| I'm not a fan of Brendan Rodgers on 14:21 - Feb 28 with 829 views | wkj |
I have to admit, I don't see anything in it as people say "Good lad" in this way too. To me, it clearly wasn't Rodgers doing anything bad. |  |
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| I'm not a fan of Brendan Rodgers on 15:10 - Feb 28 with 781 views | Vegtablue |
| I'm not a fan of Brendan Rodgers on 11:17 - Feb 28 by farkenhell |
I'm also about to take the dog out for a walk. Made a mental note to say "good dog" instead of "good girl", just in case... |
Now the world has gone mad when you can no longer patronise your dog!
Chorley's "collocates" point is an inspired offering, truly lol, but a quick inspection of his usual sign-offs with this reporter would surely reveal it was intended as a little swipe on account of how the interview went. Gendered language obviously and a gentle put-down to be sure, but I'm not comfortable dumping it on the sexism pile without knowing how he would have addressed a male reporter in the same scenario (and my first instinct mostly is to be a generous marker on such matters).
*It is presumption on my part of course and he may go around saying "good girl" sincerely much like others say "thanks love". It would surprise me! [Post edited 28 Feb 15:22]
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