| "Thanks to Mick McCarthy for believing in me all those years ago.." 16:09 - Feb 1 with 5649 views | ElderGrizzly |
Quote from Moore later on? :) |  | | |  |
| "Thanks to Mick McCarthy for believing in me all those years ago.." on 10:31 - Feb 3 with 715 views | Mullet |
| "Thanks to Mick McCarthy for believing in me all those years ago.." on 10:27 - Feb 3 by positivity |
i think asking about mckenna "has he taken a load of duds and get career best performances and runs from them"? suggests you are denigrating mckenna's excellent work.
if that's not what you meant, then great! |
How could that possibly mean I was denigrating him? This idea that praising one manager means you are negative towards another is exactly why it's impossible to discuss things clearly.
The fact that yourself and others have taken what is said and what either manager has achieved out of context and comparison is why so much nonsense is chucked around. |  |
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| "Thanks to Mick McCarthy for believing in me all those years ago.." on 10:32 - Feb 3 with 716 views | positivity |
| "Thanks to Mick McCarthy for believing in me all those years ago.." on 10:23 - Feb 3 by unstableblue |
It’s a football message board, ‘discussing’ differing views is what it’s all about. And generates the clicks.
Marmite is a good analogy… but maybe not right for Town fans views on Mick
In these social media days everyone is prone to confirmation bias, nuance is dead.
Some people the ‘numbskulls’ hated Mick as a person, some liked him as a man but hated the football, some really loved 14/15 and micks stock remained high, some loved him as a man and a manager, then there is Mullet.
But surely the facts are:
- Mick arrived with promotions, a reputation as a god man manager, but from the old school
- he saved us from relegation with a superb turn around
- spurred on by a Murphy wunder season we made the play-offs
- we never played a system good enough to get through those play-offs
- mick was not refused funds in the January season
- numerous players confirmed Micks brilliant man management, none more so that Williams
- kick spotted real talent in Mings, and loanees
- the football didn’t put entertainment anywhere as a priority
- we’d take 1 point on the road and not get on the bus
- the football was dire to watch and sent 1000s away, many season tickets holders stayed away
- it was toxic at the end
Can anyone argue with any of the above??
He’s come up again because of Moore, who Mick found in non-league, failed to bring through and seemed to fall out with, but then got good form at Cardiff.
The reason for this thread extension and the Mick debate reigniting is Moore but also comparisons to McKenna… McKeenna is a different man, manager and level. Period. He is delivering what the Suffolk public want - entertainment
To conclude someone had a drop the mic moment in the ongoing manager -4 dialogue:
“Under Mick you’d leave the ground after a 1.0 win and it would be muted, and people would immediately start talking about other topics, now after a McKenna win people are buzzing, wooping and want to talk about a entertaining event packed match” (sic)
That’s the reality. Or is that just my confirmation bias?? |
agree, mick will always have a place in history for saving us from relegation, bringing in cresswell, mings etc and putting in a sense of plan and discipline after the disastrous keane and jewell eras.
it's the what happened in the latter years and how much of an evans-enabler he became that is contentious and sours his legacy, but he'll always have my thanks for 2013 and 2015! |  |
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| "Thanks to Mick McCarthy for believing in me all those years ago.." on 10:35 - Feb 3 with 696 views | positivity |
| "Thanks to Mick McCarthy for believing in me all those years ago.." on 10:31 - Feb 3 by Mullet |
How could that possibly mean I was denigrating him? This idea that praising one manager means you are negative towards another is exactly why it's impossible to discuss things clearly.
The fact that yourself and others have taken what is said and what either manager has achieved out of context and comparison is why so much nonsense is chucked around. |
you're not praising mick by saying about mckenna "has he taken a load of duds and get career best performances and runs from them yet."
if you didn't mean that, or you can explain the context, that's absolutely fine, i think it's unnecessary to put mckenna down | |
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| "Thanks to Mick McCarthy for believing in me all those years ago.." on 10:39 - Feb 3 with 672 views | Mullet |
| "Thanks to Mick McCarthy for believing in me all those years ago.." on 10:35 - Feb 3 by positivity |
you're not praising mick by saying about mckenna "has he taken a load of duds and get career best performances and runs from them yet."
if you didn't mean that, or you can explain the context, that's absolutely fine, i think it's unnecessary to put mckenna down |
It was talking about the complete lack of investment under Evans. Which has nothing to do with McKenna and isn't an impediment he's had to deal with.
This thread is full of people pointing out how different the club was under Evans and GC. How much bias do you have to have to completely dismiss that? The fact you keep focussing on something very clear and obvious which you got wrong is very telling. | |
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| "Thanks to Mick McCarthy for believing in me all those years ago.." on 10:46 - Feb 3 with 654 views | positivity |
| "Thanks to Mick McCarthy for believing in me all those years ago.." on 10:39 - Feb 3 by Mullet |
It was talking about the complete lack of investment under Evans. Which has nothing to do with McKenna and isn't an impediment he's had to deal with.
This thread is full of people pointing out how different the club was under Evans and GC. How much bias do you have to have to completely dismiss that? The fact you keep focussing on something very clear and obvious which you got wrong is very telling. |
that's still no excuse for saying mckenna hasn't coaxed "career best performances and runs from" his players!
carry on praising mick, just don't do mckenna down at the same time!
obviously evans and gc are different which is why enabling evans was a negative mark against mick for me in retrospect.
mick did a great job for those early years with the cards he was dealt, but he was in a stronger position to demand new cards after his exploits from his arrival to end of 2014 | |
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| "Thanks to Mick McCarthy for believing in me all those years ago.." on 10:53 - Feb 3 with 631 views | Superblue95 |
| "Thanks to Mick McCarthy for believing in me all those years ago.." on 10:32 - Feb 3 by positivity |
agree, mick will always have a place in history for saving us from relegation, bringing in cresswell, mings etc and putting in a sense of plan and discipline after the disastrous keane and jewell eras.
it's the what happened in the latter years and how much of an evans-enabler he became that is contentious and sours his legacy, but he'll always have my thanks for 2013 and 2015! |
Jewell brought in Cresswell. |  |
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| "Thanks to Mick McCarthy for believing in me all those years ago.." on 10:57 - Feb 3 with 611 views | positivity |
| "Thanks to Mick McCarthy for believing in me all those years ago.." on 10:53 - Feb 3 by Superblue95 |
Jewell brought in Cresswell. |
good point, ok change that to "bought in players like mcgoldrick and mings and brought on players like cresswell"! | |
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| "Thanks to Mick McCarthy for believing in me all those years ago.." on 11:18 - Feb 3 with 590 views | Ryorry |
| "Thanks to Mick McCarthy for believing in me all those years ago.." on 10:23 - Feb 3 by unstableblue |
It’s a football message board, ‘discussing’ differing views is what it’s all about. And generates the clicks.
Marmite is a good analogy… but maybe not right for Town fans views on Mick
In these social media days everyone is prone to confirmation bias, nuance is dead.
Some people the ‘numbskulls’ hated Mick as a person, some liked him as a man but hated the football, some really loved 14/15 and micks stock remained high, some loved him as a man and a manager, then there is Mullet.
But surely the facts are:
- Mick arrived with promotions, a reputation as a god man manager, but from the old school
- he saved us from relegation with a superb turn around
- spurred on by a Murphy wunder season we made the play-offs
- we never played a system good enough to get through those play-offs
- mick was not refused funds in the January season
- numerous players confirmed Micks brilliant man management, none more so that Williams
- kick spotted real talent in Mings, and loanees
- the football didn’t put entertainment anywhere as a priority
- we’d take 1 point on the road and not get on the bus
- the football was dire to watch and sent 1000s away, many season tickets holders stayed away
- it was toxic at the end
Can anyone argue with any of the above??
He’s come up again because of Moore, who Mick found in non-league, failed to bring through and seemed to fall out with, but then got good form at Cardiff.
The reason for this thread extension and the Mick debate reigniting is Moore but also comparisons to McKenna… McKeenna is a different man, manager and level. Period. He is delivering what the Suffolk public want - entertainment
To conclude someone had a drop the mic moment in the ongoing manager -4 dialogue:
“Under Mick you’d leave the ground after a 1.0 win and it would be muted, and people would immediately start talking about other topics, now after a McKenna win people are buzzing, wooping and want to talk about a entertaining event packed match” (sic)
That’s the reality. Or is that just my confirmation bias?? |
"It’s a football message board, ‘discussing’ differing views is what it’s all about. And generates the clicks."
Yet we haven't had 100+ threads arguing about how good/bad they were re any other manager, years and four managers after they left. I doubt any other club has either. |  |
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| "Thanks to Mick McCarthy for believing in me all those years ago.." on 11:24 - Feb 3 with 569 views | Superblue95 |
| "Thanks to Mick McCarthy for believing in me all those years ago.." on 11:18 - Feb 3 by Ryorry |
"It’s a football message board, ‘discussing’ differing views is what it’s all about. And generates the clicks."
Yet we haven't had 100+ threads arguing about how good/bad they were re any other manager, years and four managers after they left. I doubt any other club has either. |
The debate over whether Cook deserves any praise for his signings in 2021 still gets discussed regularly to be fair.
Nobody discusses any of our other recent managers as the whole fanbase concludes they were sh1te so there’s nothing to discuss.
I do agree the regular Mick debates are beyond tedious now though. | |
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| "Thanks to Mick McCarthy for believing in me all those years ago.." on 11:36 - Feb 3 with 545 views | ibbleobble |
| "Thanks to Mick McCarthy for believing in me all those years ago.." on 11:24 - Feb 3 by Superblue95 |
The debate over whether Cook deserves any praise for his signings in 2021 still gets discussed regularly to be fair.
Nobody discusses any of our other recent managers as the whole fanbase concludes they were sh1te so there’s nothing to discuss.
I do agree the regular Mick debates are beyond tedious now though. |
I think Lambert's 5-year contract rears its head from time-to-time too. Understandably so as it has to be one of the most bewildering and ludicrous events in recent Town history; that and Mullet’s love affair with Mick, of course 😂 | | | |
| "Thanks to Mick McCarthy for believing in me all those years ago.." on 11:43 - Feb 3 with 537 views | unstableblue |
| "Thanks to Mick McCarthy for believing in me all those years ago.." on 11:18 - Feb 3 by Ryorry |
"It’s a football message board, ‘discussing’ differing views is what it’s all about. And generates the clicks."
Yet we haven't had 100+ threads arguing about how good/bad they were re any other manager, years and four managers after they left. I doubt any other club has either. |
Have you ever been on other message boards! You’d be amazed
As for this board.
Cook is really divisive - was he a complete moron, was he not given time to allow the team to gel, were the huge number of players pivotal to McKennas success |  |
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| "Thanks to Mick McCarthy for believing in me all those years ago.." on 11:51 - Feb 3 with 529 views | Ryorry |
| "Thanks to Mick McCarthy for believing in me all those years ago.." on 11:43 - Feb 3 by unstableblue |
Have you ever been on other message boards! You’d be amazed
As for this board.
Cook is really divisive - was he a complete moron, was he not given time to allow the team to gel, were the huge number of players pivotal to McKennas success |
Yes I have been on numerous other message boards.
Cook is occasionally discussed on here, but gets nothng remotely like the same number of posts, threads, heated argument & division as MM. | |
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| "Thanks to Mick McCarthy for believing in me all those years ago.." on 12:02 - Feb 3 with 519 views | unstableblue |
| "Thanks to Mick McCarthy for believing in me all those years ago.." on 10:39 - Feb 3 by Mullet |
It was talking about the complete lack of investment under Evans. Which has nothing to do with McKenna and isn't an impediment he's had to deal with.
This thread is full of people pointing out how different the club was under Evans and GC. How much bias do you have to have to completely dismiss that? The fact you keep focussing on something very clear and obvious which you got wrong is very telling. |
Errrr.. Mick was able to bring in 98 players in his time at ITFC?
This included million+ fees for Huws, Garner, Waghorn and Ward. And undisclosed fees of scale for the likes of Bart, McGoldrick, Anderson
Plus SIGNIFICANT loan fees for the likes of Williams, Lawrence and Celina.
He had a midtable budget in comparison to peer clubs. Which he excelled with in 14/15. McKenna has a midtable budget for the championship and he is second with budgets that are dwarfing ours - AND WE'RE SECOND, and will finish on more points than Mick's best season.
I agree he wasn't backed liked Keane and probably Jewell. But he had significant squads with significant wages.
AND FOR THE 100TH TIME - Evans offered him funds in the play-off Jan window and he didn't want to upset the squad. End of.
But why are we talking about this - you clearly inferred that Mick has had better track record than McKenna, which is true outside of Town, but not within Town, but more importantly, you inferred Mick was the only one to have brought through duds and lower level players, which is untrue. McKenna has excelled at that.
Own it. | |
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| "Thanks to Mick McCarthy for believing in me all those years ago.." on 13:00 - Feb 3 with 495 views | ibbleobble |
| "Thanks to Mick McCarthy for believing in me all those years ago.." on 11:51 - Feb 3 by Ryorry |
Yes I have been on numerous other message boards.
Cook is occasionally discussed on here, but gets nothng remotely like the same number of posts, threads, heated argument & division as MM. |
Naturally. Mick was here three times as long as Cook so you’d expect as much. However, the stark difference is Cook didn’t instigate or provoke divisions between sections of the fan base, Mick did so you’d expect some level of sustained discourse / retaliation etc.
Mick also continued that after he left given the bitterness he felt ie : BCWYF, “that went well”…so it cuts both ways.
I guess Town fans are having the last laugh though given our current standing in the game and his inability to call it time despite no job offers and the occasional punditry gig. | | | |
| "Thanks to Mick McCarthy for believing in me all those years ago.." on 14:53 - Feb 3 with 452 views | Vegtablue |
| "Thanks to Mick McCarthy for believing in me all those years ago.." on 09:23 - Feb 3 by Mullet |
Except we were big spenders underachieving and buying in players from the League above. Why you're trying to make this argument is baffling.
It's almost like facts are irrelevant in order to keep trying to justify stuff that was never right. This weird either/or mentality people adopt with managers is so facile. Both are great and one will go onto be greater, that doesn't diminish that Mick deserves a massive amount of humble pie and more from a large chunk of fans. |
Hardly a baffling or facile reply to the following sentence IMO: "Nor has he taken a load of duds and get career best performances and runs from them yet." I understand your sentiment and don't wish to reduce the underlying talent of those who have performed so well for us, but we're undoubtedly in 'career best territory' for several senior players. Luongo and Morsy were certainly written off for middle/upper Championship level, while Burns, Jackson, Harness and Burgess were less Championship duds but rather outside the Championship's orbit entirely. Hirst endured torrid spells on loans in this league before showing his ability with us, while 'media experts' thought Chaplin would look ordinary again.
I firmly believe McKenna's already achieved what you contest he hasn't, although perhaps the point of contention lies not in whether he's got career best runs out of these players but in whether they were sufficiently regarded as 'duds', by either the wider football community or you. I know you expressed certainty that McKenna will achieve the above in time and that your chief intention was to celebrate Mick, but it's open to question whether this remains an uncompleted goal for either, as fresh-faced as McKenna is.
Outlining my own bias/perspective on the wider subject, in case it's considered pertinent: I thought Mick consistently outperformed his budget and extracted more from the assembled group than nearly anyone else could have. It's unlikely we'd have remained in the Championship for as long as we did under a different style, given the lack of investment, but the knock-on effect was dwindling crowds and consequently revenue. If Evans had been willing to sell the club to ambitious investors before relegation, with Mick still in charge, I believe a new regime would have wanted to invest in a new manager rather than provide him with a proper budget and opportunity. Perhaps he was unfairly pigeonholed for his pragmatic play but his reputation preceded him. | | | |
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