| FFP and the January window 13:21 - Nov 13 with 3419 views | burnbudgiesburn |
Thread inspired by the latest blue monday pod.
I personally think we are close to the limit of FFP and cannot 'splash the cash' too much but I hadn't thought of the 2/3 scenarios presented.
1. We 'go for it' knowing these opportunities don't come along often and splash out 15-20m on players with the knowledge we can always sell on an asset like Leif Davis should we fail to rebalance our FFP
2. We frontload signing on fee promises to players, with our league position we are now attractive and could offer high promotion bonus clauses to get players to PR
3. You can get loan players at clubs to be recalled by their parent club and sent to clubs further up the chain. e.g Jay Stansfield at Birmingham
So, do we 'go for it' ? Upside is we may hold onto assets like Leif Davis/McKenna himself if we go up. Downside if we don't is we'll have to sell assets and hamstring us in terms of spending for a few seasons. |  | | |  |
| FFP and the January window on 13:27 - Nov 13 with 2648 views | MK1 |
Think we will try and off load a few and bring in maybe 2 or 3. Nothing over the top, just a few to help shore up some places where we probably ain't as strong in depth. Don't think McKenna is the type to "go for it", more a considered approach. Players who make us stronger without breaking FFP this season. |  | | |
| FFP and the January window on 13:30 - Nov 13 with 2615 views | Reus30 |
I think with our playing trading model we won't splash the cash per se.
Maybe two signings, maybe a couple of loans to deal with our January issues (Internationals/heavy schedule) but we are ok. Need to retain our key players (and manager) rather than fully churn I think and that's my biggest fear now that we have lots of eyes on us. |  | | |
| FFP and the January window on 13:31 - Nov 13 with 2598 views | wkj |
Do we even need to splash out 15 - 20m? Sure, football prices are silly, but we can't underestimate McKenna's eye for a player. One thing we can reliably expect is that any strengthening we do in January will be well thought out and considered - both by the gaffer and the brass. |  |
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| FFP and the January window on 13:34 - Nov 13 with 2584 views | tractorboy1978 |
We would be daft not to 'go for it' within reason. We won't have a better start to build on than this! We also need to cash in on having McKenna here still and make sure we get over the line this season.
We won't spend £15-£20m but could see us breaking our GC transfer record a couple of times in January on the right players. | | | |
| FFP and the January window on 13:34 - Nov 13 with 2579 views | Metal_Hacker |
All we need IMHO is someone to help out George up top - someone to take the burden off him a little , who is as good him at pressing and holding the ball up , commanding two central defenders
Elsewhere I think we're Ok if we keep hold of what we already have in Hutch and Williams as well |  |
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| FFP and the January window on 13:35 - Nov 13 with 2578 views | ChampionsofInnsbruck |
Just of interest, given our spending is lower than most of the league, how are we that close to the FFP limit if others presumably aren't? We're hardly jam packed with ex-Prem players are we! |  | | |
| FFP and the January window on 13:35 - Nov 13 with 2560 views | PioneerBlue |
If “Going for it” simply means spending money because size of fee is the determining factor in a successful promotion push then not for me.
1-it doesn’t chime with running a club on a sustainable footing!
But
2-whilst we are at or near the top there is no imperative to spend disproportionately, it’s only as the trajectory starts to flatten do we need to consider this
Meanwhile the imperative is or are to cover and mitigate injury or loss of form for key players in our set up
Leif
Morsy
Burns
Broadhead, Chappers
Hirst
Multiple injuries or loss of form for these would have significant impact over the final stages of season but we can’t cover everything in 1 transfer window in Jan.
Whatever I say, I know the club will do what’s best given what’s available and possible at the time. | |
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| FFP and the January window on 13:37 - Nov 13 with 2543 views | Churchman |
I wouldn’t do much in January. The squad looks ok and the results to date say that.
The big concern is Hirst. He’s crucial to how we play so if we could add somebody similar or better, great. However the chances of that are slim. A DM like the Barnsley lad Connell maybe?
We would need to move on a couple of the fringe players on to counterbalance this.
No, I would not splash the cash on players. Assuming we have recruitment plans and targets, stick to them. Stay within FFP too. There is no guarantee splashing £15-£20m on players would improve the team. In fact it might do the reverse by breaking cohesion and team spirit. [Post edited 13 Nov 2023 14:20]
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| FFP and the January window on 13:37 - Nov 13 with 2543 views | OldFart71 |
It certainly depends on the next few weeks as we have a lot of important games. I also believe squad wise we are maybe half a dozen players short of being able to hold our own in the Premier League. Yes there would be outgoings, some who would command reasonable fees and a few who would possibly just be moved on. If I am correct in my assumption of half a dozen players they wouldn't all be needed come the January window. We could possibly do with another striker and a player who could adequately come in should Morsy be injured or suspended, which we currently don't have at the club. As for the defence we have a couple of central defenders as cover or possibly to be good enough to come in now. Fullback wise we may need better cover. | | | |
| FFP and the January window on 13:40 - Nov 13 with 2484 views | wkj |
| FFP and the January window on 13:34 - Nov 13 by Metal_Hacker |
All we need IMHO is someone to help out George up top - someone to take the burden off him a little , who is as good him at pressing and holding the ball up , commanding two central defenders
Elsewhere I think we're Ok if we keep hold of what we already have in Hutch and Williams as well |
I would say another striker is high up on the list and then someone who can cover RB. I suspect we might try to cash in on Evans, possibly Ladapo and maybe even Jackson if we identify targets that are 'Premier League Ready' | |
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| FFP and the January window on 13:42 - Nov 13 with 2463 views | ChaplinsLob |
| FFP and the January window on 13:31 - Nov 13 by wkj |
Do we even need to splash out 15 - 20m? Sure, football prices are silly, but we can't underestimate McKenna's eye for a player. One thing we can reliably expect is that any strengthening we do in January will be well thought out and considered - both by the gaffer and the brass. |
What's the actual process here?
I don't know how much involvement McKenna has. I would have thought Kieran tells Ashton "we need a backup for Morsy". MA then works with the scouting team, which includes a large amount of data analysis, and goes back to KM and says "we have a list of 10 that match that" and weedle them down to possibles?
Weedle is a word, right?
MA then starts conversations with those clubs at the start of Jan or maybe late Dec? |  | | |
| FFP and the January window on 13:45 - Nov 13 with 2419 views | wkj |
| FFP and the January window on 13:42 - Nov 13 by ChaplinsLob |
What's the actual process here?
I don't know how much involvement McKenna has. I would have thought Kieran tells Ashton "we need a backup for Morsy". MA then works with the scouting team, which includes a large amount of data analysis, and goes back to KM and says "we have a list of 10 that match that" and weedle them down to possibles?
Weedle is a word, right?
MA then starts conversations with those clubs at the start of Jan or maybe late Dec? |
I bet you that McKenna always has a list of players he's looking at and presents the names to Ashton. | |
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| FFP and the January window on 13:45 - Nov 13 with 2416 views | Illinoisblue |
| FFP and the January window on 13:37 - Nov 13 by Churchman |
I wouldn’t do much in January. The squad looks ok and the results to date say that.
The big concern is Hirst. He’s crucial to how we play so if we could add somebody similar or better, great. However the chances of that are slim. A DM like the Barnsley lad Connell maybe?
We would need to move on a couple of the fringe players on to counterbalance this.
No, I would not splash the cash on players. Assuming we have recruitment plans and targets, stick to them. Stay within FFP too. There is no guarantee splashing £15-£20m on players would improve the team. In fact it might do the reverse by breaking cohesion and team spirit. [Post edited 13 Nov 2023 14:20]
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You are Mick/Marcus in January 2015 and I claim my $5 |  |
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| FFP and the January window on 13:48 - Nov 13 with 2384 views | wkj |
| FFP and the January window on 13:45 - Nov 13 by Illinoisblue |
You are Mick/Marcus in January 2015 and I claim my $5 |
TBF On churchers - We're not faced with a threadbare squad this time. | |
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| FFP and the January window on 13:54 - Nov 13 with 2342 views | SmithersJones |
| FFP and the January window on 13:30 - Nov 13 by Reus30 |
I think with our playing trading model we won't splash the cash per se.
Maybe two signings, maybe a couple of loans to deal with our January issues (Internationals/heavy schedule) but we are ok. Need to retain our key players (and manager) rather than fully churn I think and that's my biggest fear now that we have lots of eyes on us. |
I think the point that Blue Monday we’re making was that Davies is likely to be playing in the Premier League next season, the only question is with which club? If we go for it and go up, he stays and happy days. If we fall short then he’s leaving anyway, regardless of what we do in the January window and regardless of our FFP position. | | | |
| FFP and the January window on 13:57 - Nov 13 with 2306 views | Freddies_Ears |
| FFP and the January window on 13:42 - Nov 13 by ChaplinsLob |
What's the actual process here?
I don't know how much involvement McKenna has. I would have thought Kieran tells Ashton "we need a backup for Morsy". MA then works with the scouting team, which includes a large amount of data analysis, and goes back to KM and says "we have a list of 10 that match that" and weedle them down to possibles?
Weedle is a word, right?
MA then starts conversations with those clubs at the start of Jan or maybe late Dec? |
McKenna identifies the positions he thinks we need to upgrade, and provides a profile of the kind of player we want. By definition, this includes players we might offload. Recruitment team watches players, first teamers + EPL U21s and makes recommendations.
Luke Werhun spends much of his life on the phone to agents and other clubs, for ins/ outs / loans in & out.
Ashton advises re budget issues - opportunities & limitations. And closes deals once we are ready.
Many others involved too, at each step, but that is the gist of it. It is utterly professional these days. | | | |
| FFP and the January window on 13:59 - Nov 13 with 2280 views | ElderGrizzly |
FFP only bites us if we stay down (and when/if we return) as I understand it.
If we go up to the PL, if we 'overspent' this season it simply doesn't matter in terms of sanctions if we go up as the EFL and PL are entirely different.
It's what Brighton did with their gamble I believe when they went up.
To be clear, not saying we spend £15m-£20m either, but we do have a decision/gamble if we want to play it. [Post edited 13 Nov 2023 14:00]
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| Not sure what it looks like on 14:03 - Nov 13 with 2234 views | Dyland |
But yes, we certainly "go for it" if by that we're talking about landing a Sir Marcus style striker (in terms of overall quality rather than specific style), and whatever other quality is needed in terms of injuries, international duties, etc. e.g. another strong DM.
We're unlikely to have another start to a season like this one and it presents a massive opportunity to really strengthen the squad for a promotion push (via playoffs probably), or to hit the ground running again next season. |  |
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| FFP and the January window on 14:09 - Nov 13 with 2190 views | bluesbrothers |
As things stand, with our current league position, the plan is to spend heavily. | | | |
| FFP and the January window on 14:11 - Nov 13 with 2175 views | Bent_double |
| FFP and the January window on 13:59 - Nov 13 by ElderGrizzly |
FFP only bites us if we stay down (and when/if we return) as I understand it.
If we go up to the PL, if we 'overspent' this season it simply doesn't matter in terms of sanctions if we go up as the EFL and PL are entirely different.
It's what Brighton did with their gamble I believe when they went up.
To be clear, not saying we spend £15m-£20m either, but we do have a decision/gamble if we want to play it. [Post edited 13 Nov 2023 14:00]
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FFP allows a club to lose £39m over 3 years, doesn't it? If that's correct, and the FFP clock only started ticking this season, then we do have a lot to play with, and a £15-20m spend on quality players could make all the difference.
I mean, it seems incredible to evenn be thinking about things in those terms, but 'all' we need to do is continue at 2 points per game, and its job done - and we will need better quality players in reserve than we have now, so go for it, I say.
Of course, January is the worst time to be buying, as prices are inflated, but no reason why McKenna/Aston can't unearth a gem or two from somewhere in the world. |  |
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| FFP and the January window on 14:19 - Nov 13 with 2099 views | ChaplinsLob |
| FFP and the January window on 14:11 - Nov 13 by Bent_double |
FFP allows a club to lose £39m over 3 years, doesn't it? If that's correct, and the FFP clock only started ticking this season, then we do have a lot to play with, and a £15-20m spend on quality players could make all the difference.
I mean, it seems incredible to evenn be thinking about things in those terms, but 'all' we need to do is continue at 2 points per game, and its job done - and we will need better quality players in reserve than we have now, so go for it, I say.
Of course, January is the worst time to be buying, as prices are inflated, but no reason why McKenna/Aston can't unearth a gem or two from somewhere in the world. |
Pretty sure that our clock started 3 years ago. | | | |
| FFP and the January window on 14:22 - Nov 13 with 2049 views | textbackup |
I think we move on a few, and bring in 2/3 bits of real quality, with the absolute key signing being a striker to challenge Hirst (or give him a rest) |  |
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| FFP and the January window on 14:24 - Nov 13 with 2033 views | burnbudgiesburn |
| FFP and the January window on 14:19 - Nov 13 by ChaplinsLob |
Pretty sure that our clock started 3 years ago. |
Correct, and we lost what 14-16m last season alone? I would say the extra 8-9m in revenue from TV keeps us safe FFP wise and with a little cash to spend but not break our record transfer fee multiple times unless we 'go for it' like outlined in my OP | | | |
| FFP and the January window on 14:24 - Nov 13 with 2024 views | Churchman |
| FFP and the January window on 13:45 - Nov 13 by Illinoisblue |
You are Mick/Marcus in January 2015 and I claim my $5 |
A little harsh 😃 | | | |
| FFP and the January window on 14:26 - Nov 13 with 2014 views | ElderGrizzly |
| FFP and the January window on 14:11 - Nov 13 by Bent_double |
FFP allows a club to lose £39m over 3 years, doesn't it? If that's correct, and the FFP clock only started ticking this season, then we do have a lot to play with, and a £15-20m spend on quality players could make all the difference.
I mean, it seems incredible to evenn be thinking about things in those terms, but 'all' we need to do is continue at 2 points per game, and its job done - and we will need better quality players in reserve than we have now, so go for it, I say.
Of course, January is the worst time to be buying, as prices are inflated, but no reason why McKenna/Aston can't unearth a gem or two from somewhere in the world. |
FFP in the EFL does. A whole different game in the PL.
As others have pointed out, we are pushing against our limit already as our time in L1 will count. | | | |
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