| House Buying Question 19:34 - Jul 19 with 2626 views | Horsham |
Hello, beg for wisdom.
I’m buying a house at the moment and it turns out the land registry does not match the fence line around the property, which potentially means my new neighbour can claim I have made an incursion onto their land. It probably equates to about 10% of the garden including a small brick built shed.
I’m minded to reduce my offer but frankly it seems pretty subjective as to how much. Any ideas or thoughts appreciated! |  | | |  |
| House Buying Question on 19:40 - Jul 19 with 2568 views | Lord_Lucan |
I love it when people ask TW4TDERs about house buying questions, building extensions and stuff like that.
I mean, It's due diligence gone mad.
It's not like the potential hazard is just a bit of Delhi Belly from the local takeaway is it! |  |
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| House Buying Question on 19:49 - Jul 19 with 2516 views | lowhouseblue |
get the seller to provide insurance in respect of any future boundary dispute. and get statements as to how long it has been as it is. and take the advise of your lawyer / conveyancer. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| House Buying Question on 19:50 - Jul 19 with 2515 views | ronnyd |
If you are happy with the price you are paying, just offer to purchase the the parcel of land from your soon to be neighbour.
Had a similar thing when my parents bungalow was sold. There was a small parcel of land on the deeds that the purchasers solicitors queried , which seemed to have disappeared. Had to inform them that it had been washed away over the years by the river Stour. | | | |
| House Buying Question on 20:11 - Jul 19 with 2456 views | factual_blue |
If the current owner has had the boundary where it is for over 12 years, I think the neighbour no longer has a claim to ask for the boundary to be moved, but worth getting it checked. |  |
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| House Buying Question on 20:37 - Jul 19 with 2386 views | GavTWTD |
You don't want any bad will with the new neighbour. I had a similar problem whereby my garden wasn't attached to the house at all. Your solicitor will know what to do. It will add 6 months to your planned exchange date, so be warned if you go that route. |  |
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| House Buying Question on 21:46 - Jul 19 with 2251 views | Horsham |
Thanks All, food for thought. Appreciated. Maybe apart from being call tw4t. | | | |
| House Buying Question on 21:47 - Jul 19 with 2244 views | DJR |
| House Buying Question on 20:11 - Jul 19 by factual_blue |
If the current owner has had the boundary where it is for over 12 years, I think the neighbour no longer has a claim to ask for the boundary to be moved, but worth getting it checked. |
This is what is known as "adverse possession".
https://www.lawble.co.uk/adverse-possession/
And of course if the 10 or 12 year period hasn't yet passed, it could do in due course if you hang on to it the property for long enough.
The other possibility is the land in question was not knowingly owned by anyone, and so claimed by your vendor or a predecessor; as happened in the case of no man's land alongside my parents' house in Felixstowe where the adjoining owners all extended their gardens. But again adverse possession will come into player
As this is a legal issue, I would suggest you get the advice of your solicitor as the the legal position.
As regards knocking money off the purchase price, if the land isn't actually owned by the vendor and so they aren't really selling you the disputed land, I would be inclined to ask for the cost of having to, say, remove the shed and put up boundary fencing in the right position, were you to be asked to do so. Maybe £1K or £2 would be an appropriate amount but once again your solicitor may have views on this. [Post edited 19 Jul 2023 21:50]
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| House Buying Question on 21:51 - Jul 19 with 2214 views | Horsham |
| House Buying Question on 21:47 - Jul 19 by DJR |
This is what is known as "adverse possession".
https://www.lawble.co.uk/adverse-possession/
And of course if the 10 or 12 year period hasn't yet passed, it could do in due course if you hang on to it the property for long enough.
The other possibility is the land in question was not knowingly owned by anyone, and so claimed by your vendor or a predecessor; as happened in the case of no man's land alongside my parents' house in Felixstowe where the adjoining owners all extended their gardens. But again adverse possession will come into player
As this is a legal issue, I would suggest you get the advice of your solicitor as the the legal position.
As regards knocking money off the purchase price, if the land isn't actually owned by the vendor and so they aren't really selling you the disputed land, I would be inclined to ask for the cost of having to, say, remove the shed and put up boundary fencing in the right position, were you to be asked to do so. Maybe £1K or £2 would be an appropriate amount but once again your solicitor may have views on this. [Post edited 19 Jul 2023 21:50]
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Thanks that’s good and informed advice. | | | |
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| House Buying Question on 23:24 - Jul 19 with 2073 views | Nutkins_Return |
Have you actually checked who owns it. Had this happen to us when selling. It turned out small parcel of land in garden was owned by power company and they held it and were on theory able to put a tiny sub power station thing in it...was a nightmare. Anyway ended up after a few months able to buy it for about £4-5k and sold. Buyers wouldn't buy it until sorted (understandably). Could have been a nightmare. | | | |
| House Buying Question on 23:36 - Jul 19 with 2046 views | Horsham |
| House Buying Question on 23:24 - Jul 19 by Nutkins_Return |
Have you actually checked who owns it. Had this happen to us when selling. It turned out small parcel of land in garden was owned by power company and they held it and were on theory able to put a tiny sub power station thing in it...was a nightmare. Anyway ended up after a few months able to buy it for about £4-5k and sold. Buyers wouldn't buy it until sorted (understandably). Could have been a nightmare. |
Cheers. Yeah, it’s owned by the neighbour. It’s a bit weird all round as the whole row of houses seem a little of kilter with the land registry. It’s the first ‘interesting’ house I’ve tried to buy (since the last one). River at the bottom of the garden and some sort of feudal ownership of that. I’ve not even mentioned that as I’ve made my peace with that! | | | |
| House Buying Question on 09:07 - Jul 20 with 1860 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| House Buying Question on 23:36 - Jul 19 by Horsham |
Cheers. Yeah, it’s owned by the neighbour. It’s a bit weird all round as the whole row of houses seem a little of kilter with the land registry. It’s the first ‘interesting’ house I’ve tried to buy (since the last one). River at the bottom of the garden and some sort of feudal ownership of that. I’ve not even mentioned that as I’ve made my peace with that! |
Have you looked at projected Sea level rises and what that might do to the river at the bottom of the garden in the next 20 years?
Personally I would step away with those two intangibles against it. | | | |
| House Buying Question on 09:14 - Jul 20 with 1843 views | Zx1988 |
Assuming that your local market is similar to the general state of the UK-wide market at the moment, it's a buyer's market and you have the whip hand.
If they're trying to sell land that doesn't belong to them, it's something that's going to be picked up by any vaguely competent conveyancing solicitor. It's not like it's an issue with the decor, or a smaller defect that some buyers might be willing to accept, and others will quibble over. Chances are that most mortgage lenders would also take an interest in this particular situation, so it's unlikely that the vendors would find success should they opt to take a chance with a different buyer.
From a valuation point of view, I would approach this in the same way as if I was advising a client faced with having found damp, structural movement, or any other defect in a potential purchase. I would suggest that the appropriate discount to seek would be equivalent to the cost of rectifying the situation (i.e. moving the boundary back to its proper position, and undoing any 'damage' to the neighbour's land such as the shed), plus perhaps a small consideration on top for the time and effort required to undertake such an exercise.
Not knowing the size and nature of the garden itself, a 10% reduction in size shouldn't make any difference to the value of the property, but it will all depend on the local market and whether there's any evidence that small changes in garden size influence the value of a property. Likewise, if the rest of the garden is poor and this 10% is the best and most useable bit, then this would also make a difference. [Post edited 20 Jul 2023 9:17]
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| House Buying Question on 09:28 - Jul 20 with 1811 views | Keno |
Do you know when the house and your neighbours house were last sold? that may have a bearing on the issues of possessory titles
Talk this through with your solicitor and see what they say |  |
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| House Buying Question on 09:47 - Jul 20 with 1763 views | Weekender |
Hi Horsham
I am a surveyor and regularly deal with boundary disputes. Also live not too far from Horsham in Sussex (assuming that the origin of your username). Happy to try and help.
The title plan I believe you are referring to is only a guide to the relationship of parcels of land and unlikely to be accurate enough to describe the legal boundary. It will be based on OS mapping which has inherent inaccuracies. If you can find it the originating conveyance is the document you need. this is the conveyance when the property was first formed. If you are lucky there may be a plan appended describing the legal boundary position. |  |
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| House Buying Question on 09:53 - Jul 20 with 1741 views | DJR |
| House Buying Question on 09:07 - Jul 20 by ArnoldMoorhen |
Have you looked at projected Sea level rises and what that might do to the river at the bottom of the garden in the next 20 years?
Personally I would step away with those two intangibles against it. |
Sea level rises are unlikely to be an issue unless near the coast, but it would be worth checking the flood risk on the Environment Agency website.
I say that as someone with a stream towards the edge of my property, although as I own the land under the stream, I can (as the previous owner did) legally pump up to 20 square meters of water for use on my garden when there is a hosepipe ban.
This comes under what are known as riparian rights.
https://iow.gov.uk/azservices/documents/2821-Riparian-Rights-Explained.pdf#:~:te
Personally, I wouldn't let the boundary issue put you off. [Post edited 20 Jul 2023 17:01]
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| House Buying Question on 12:31 - Jul 20 with 1626 views | Horsham |
| House Buying Question on 09:28 - Jul 20 by Keno |
Do you know when the house and your neighbours house were last sold? that may have a bearing on the issues of possessory titles
Talk this through with your solicitor and see what they say |
Cheers, on it! Thank you sir. | | | |
| House Buying Question on 12:33 - Jul 20 with 1616 views | Horsham |
| House Buying Question on 09:47 - Jul 20 by Weekender |
Hi Horsham
I am a surveyor and regularly deal with boundary disputes. Also live not too far from Horsham in Sussex (assuming that the origin of your username). Happy to try and help.
The title plan I believe you are referring to is only a guide to the relationship of parcels of land and unlikely to be accurate enough to describe the legal boundary. It will be based on OS mapping which has inherent inaccuracies. If you can find it the originating conveyance is the document you need. this is the conveyance when the property was first formed. If you are lucky there may be a plan appended describing the legal boundary position. |
Thanks Weekender
I think I am getting somewhere with the land registry. I may yet ask some direct questions which you are more than entitled to not answer:)
Btw I may have to approach Gav for a user name but not sure I like the sound of Pulborough! | | | |
| House Buying Question on 15:28 - Jul 20 with 1539 views | Weekender |
| House Buying Question on 12:33 - Jul 20 by Horsham |
Thanks Weekender
I think I am getting somewhere with the land registry. I may yet ask some direct questions which you are more than entitled to not answer:)
Btw I may have to approach Gav for a user name but not sure I like the sound of Pulborough! |
No worries, just send me a direct message if needs be. | |
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