| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions 23:10 - Feb 4 with 13249 views | StokieBlue |
So it looks like the Tory backbenchers and the Chancellor are applying pressure to try and get the government to bring forward the dates for considering easing the lockdown in England.
This is against the advice of SAGE who Sunak has stated are acting too conservatively. You also have Hunt coming out and saying lockdown should be continued until cases are to 1000 per day and Starmer saying we shouldn't open up too early like other times.
Then you have Chope on Newsnight saying that the 8th March should be "lockdown freedom day" when the public get their "liberties" back and other evidences showing that only 20% of people are following isolation orders.
The issue here is that if there are 20,000 cases a day, even if the R is low (say 0.6) then when you open up that is still a high baseline number of cases which can start growing exponentially again and it won't take long to get to high numbers. Counter to that, if you wait until cases are 5,000 per day it will take longer to reach higher cases and it will also allow more time for vaccinations before those cases reach a high level.
Interesting Chope refused to say what an acceptable number of cases were to open up, he said that isn't the point and that people should be able to exercise their freedom and even referred to the public as "prisoners" so that might give an indication where a number of Tory backbenchers are at the moment.
You also have Damien Green on Newsnight saying that this has to be the last lockdown for both economic and mental health reasons and in order for that to be the case we need come out in a cautious and pragmatic way due to the new variants.
So it seems there are two very solid blocks of opinion but very little agreement between the blocks.
What are peoples thoughts?
SB
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| Avatar - M51 - The Whirlpool Galaxy - Taken on 29th April 2024 |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:42 - Feb 5 with 523 views | 26_Paz |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:40 - Feb 5 by footers |
Yeah, in surveying. Maybe stick to tape measures and not public health matters. |
They’re not in public health no, but you were talking about education in general. As you well know. |  |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:42 - Feb 5 with 534 views | Swansea_Blue |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:31 - Feb 4 by 26_Paz |
There should be no restrictions on liberty whatsoever once the over 70s and the clinically vulnerable have been vaccinated. |
I'm sure it's been pointed out, but that's dangerous nonsense. You really do need to think long and hard about the sources you get your views from. (Or stop trolling). |  |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:43 - Feb 5 with 528 views | vapour_trail |
Not sure there’s much point to this thread.
The op sets out some opposing viewpoints to ending lockdown and invites people’s thoughts.
Look at what’s ensued. |  |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:44 - Feb 5 with 523 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:25 - Feb 5 by 26_Paz |
That’s what I’ve said. I’ve said there is a trade off between the absolute need to ease lockdown for the sake of younger people and an acceptable risk to older people. It’s a debate that needs to be had. I accept that I’m probably further towards opening early than the majority of people but coming out of this will involve risk. That will need to be accepted or we will stay like this forever. |
It's not acceptable to risk old people just because they're old.
We're talking about a month or so extra, you were talking about a year in people's lives, now you're talking about "forever." When people start exaggerating like that on TWTD it's usually because they're losing the argument. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:45 - Feb 5 with 509 views | mikeybloo88 |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 00:12 - Feb 5 by 26_Paz |
Both of them are more anti lock down than me and would remove it all tomorrow if you have them half a chance! |
The apple clearly didn't fall far from that tree then....sorry fella, you've done yourself no favours on this one. |  | | |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:45 - Feb 5 with 500 views | 26_Paz |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:42 - Feb 5 by Swansea_Blue |
I'm sure it's been pointed out, but that's dangerous nonsense. You really do need to think long and hard about the sources you get your views from. (Or stop trolling). |
I’d had a couple of beers last night and wasn’t quite as eloquent as I perhaps should have been and for that I apologise. My point hold though. I think we should be bold with the easing of lockdown and accept the risks associated with that. | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:47 - Feb 5 with 507 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:41 - Feb 5 by 26_Paz |
You should get those anger issues looked at |
You should get your lack of empathy and morals looked at | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:48 - Feb 5 with 508 views | bluelagos |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:29 - Feb 5 by footers |
Stop dressing up your own wanton selfishness as concern for others' wellbeing. You couldn't give a fck.
Anyway, it's not happening either way so tough titties, me old fruit. Let's all hope your 'mental health' can cope with a few more months yet. |
What about the nation generally?
Yesterday I am walking with a friend, keeping a sensible distance. An old couple coming the other way start frantically waving at us in a panic to move over. Now I am thinking a car, cyclist is about to run me over so spin round to see what the issue is.
Nothing coming so we carry on and they get more frantic, I check again and still no dangers coming. As I pass I get told / shouted at for being "A selfish prick" by the old lady and "A moron" by the old man.
It was then I realised they were wanting me to give them more space on the path.
So we have got to a state where old people verbally abuse complete strangers for walking on a path too close to them. Am sure they are not nasty or aggressive people ordinarily. Yet they are in such a state of anxiety they feel it acceptible to shout at strangers walking along a path...
Just one very minor example of the damage being done to ordinary people's mental health. |  |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:50 - Feb 5 with 502 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:32 - Feb 5 by 26_Paz |
Personally, I think the impact on education and younger people in general has been overlooked. You obviously don’t agree with that, that’s fine. There’s no need to get all sweary. |
It hasn't been overlooked. This pandemic has been sh!t for everyone. I don't know why people need to be separated into age brackets and say it's worse for one or the other.
You are saying that some lives are worth less than others. If there's any time getting sweary is justified then this is it. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:52 - Feb 5 with 496 views | Herbivore |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:40 - Feb 5 by footers |
Yeah, in surveying. Maybe stick to tape measures and not public health matters. |
To give Paz some credit, I didn't think he even had the smarts for a vocational qualification like surveying so fair play to him for that. |  |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:52 - Feb 5 with 488 views | 26_Paz |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:48 - Feb 5 by bluelagos |
What about the nation generally?
Yesterday I am walking with a friend, keeping a sensible distance. An old couple coming the other way start frantically waving at us in a panic to move over. Now I am thinking a car, cyclist is about to run me over so spin round to see what the issue is.
Nothing coming so we carry on and they get more frantic, I check again and still no dangers coming. As I pass I get told / shouted at for being "A selfish prick" by the old lady and "A moron" by the old man.
It was then I realised they were wanting me to give them more space on the path.
So we have got to a state where old people verbally abuse complete strangers for walking on a path too close to them. Am sure they are not nasty or aggressive people ordinarily. Yet they are in such a state of anxiety they feel it acceptible to shout at strangers walking along a path...
Just one very minor example of the damage being done to ordinary people's mental health. |
I’ve seen that a bit. I’ve heard stories of elderly people so agoraphobic they won’t even go near the windows. | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:53 - Feb 5 with 489 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:33 - Feb 5 by Churchman |
You are assuming this virus just affects and bumps off the old. While the percentages are higher for the over 60s, it effects people younger. The long term impact is unknown and the virus is mutating.
People transmit C19, not governments. Blaming the tories is fine but that won’t stop the hospitals filling up. The chain has to be broken so that means lockdown plus vaccination. If schooling is interrupted, my taxes go up and national debt grows, so be it. It has to be done. |
Indeed. The woman in the flat above us is a nurse. She lost a patient to Covid aged 34 last night. [Post edited 5 Feb 2021 8:53]
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| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:53 - Feb 5 with 481 views | 26_Paz |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:52 - Feb 5 by Herbivore |
To give Paz some credit, I didn't think he even had the smarts for a vocational qualification like surveying so fair play to him for that. |
They’re not in surveying either, although surveying is a very difficult profession so I’m not sure why you are looking down on it | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:54 - Feb 5 with 483 views | Herbivore |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:45 - Feb 5 by 26_Paz |
I’d had a couple of beers last night and wasn’t quite as eloquent as I perhaps should have been and for that I apologise. My point hold though. I think we should be bold with the easing of lockdown and accept the risks associated with that. |
Utterly impervious to reason. Starting to think you got your degrees from a 2p machine in Yarmouth. | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:55 - Feb 5 with 482 views | footers |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:52 - Feb 5 by 26_Paz |
I’ve seen that a bit. I’ve heard stories of elderly people so agoraphobic they won’t even go near the windows. |
Well, they needn't worry about agoraphobia under your plans as they'll be six foot deep and pushing up daisies.
But never mind because you can go to the pub. |  |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:55 - Feb 5 with 481 views | eireblue |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:32 - Feb 5 by 26_Paz |
Personally, I think the impact on education and younger people in general has been overlooked. You obviously don’t agree with that, that’s fine. There’s no need to get all sweary. |
Always good to post a reminder that Paz gets sweary when he wants.
Which of course makes him a hypocrite. |  | | |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:56 - Feb 5 with 480 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:35 - Feb 5 by 26_Paz |
That’s a good point, and one I hadn’t considered. That should be taken into account when deciding when to ease restrictions, I agree. |
You hadn't considered if we open too early we might face another lockdown?!?! Jesus wept. You are a Tory backbencher and I claim my £5. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:57 - Feb 5 with 469 views | 26_Paz |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:50 - Feb 5 by The_Flashing_Smile |
It hasn't been overlooked. This pandemic has been sh!t for everyone. I don't know why people need to be separated into age brackets and say it's worse for one or the other.
You are saying that some lives are worth less than others. If there's any time getting sweary is justified then this is it. |
You’re going to have to accept that at some point the risks are going to worth taking. It’s a sensitive subject and one I have apologised for blundering into clumsily but a number of deaths will be acceptable to return society to normality. What that number is needs to be discussed sensibly. | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:58 - Feb 5 with 470 views | StokieBlue |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:14 - Feb 5 by bluelagos |
Chope also has his thing where he objects to private members bills on a matter of principle and so he has single handily stopped many new laws that had cross party support from progressing.
He is a full time c*nit tbh.
His position last night seemed to me to be simply "We should open up on March 8th unless you can present the evidence that we shouldn't".
That in itself seems perfectly reasonable to me, albeit I suspect that even where the evidence is presented, he wouldn't then accept it.
And some evidence was presented by the female speaker (was she PHE?) namely that if we allow the disease to rip through the population (knowing all the most vulnerable are now protected) we risk new mutations.
Tbh am fiik what we should do as the damage being done to people's wellbeing is increasing by the day. We are social animals and we are building up more and more problems every day the lockdown continues.
As ever, those who are adamant we should be in lockdown or adamant we should not, are usually the people without a thorough appreciation of all the issues. There are incredibly strong arguments to continue with lockdown and incredibly strong arguments to end it. |
I don't remember him applying a caveat around evidence.
I thought he said we should open up regardless as the people were "prisoners" and should have their "freedom" and "liberty".
I don't think he's hugely concerned with the evidence as you've said.
"Tbh am fiik what we should do as the damage being done to people's wellbeing is increasing by the day. We are social animals and we are building up more and more problems every day the lockdown continues."
This is a generalisation though. Certainly it's true for many but it's also not true for many as responses in this thread show with people willing to extend lockdown to get it all done properly. This is why the position is so hard.
SB | |
| Avatar - M51 - The Whirlpool Galaxy - Taken on 29th April 2024 |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:59 - Feb 5 with 467 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:57 - Feb 5 by 26_Paz |
You’re going to have to accept that at some point the risks are going to worth taking. It’s a sensitive subject and one I have apologised for blundering into clumsily but a number of deaths will be acceptable to return society to normality. What that number is needs to be discussed sensibly. |
With a vaccine being rolled out at an incredible rate, we’ve moved beyond the point of having to take risks.
Why fcuk it up when we are so close? |  |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:01 - Feb 5 with 461 views | StokieBlue |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:32 - Feb 5 by 26_Paz |
Personally, I think the impact on education and younger people in general has been overlooked. You obviously don’t agree with that, that’s fine. There’s no need to get all sweary. |
Once again, can you justify that position with any evidence? You've yet to post any evidence for any of your assertions when requested. It's classic troll behaviour.
I think you're totally wrong on this point. The government have been extremely reluctant to close schools to the point where the virus actually spread massively in late November and early December when the schools really should have been closed to prevent that.
What are your thoughts on this? It's early days with the research but it could increase and mutations (which become much more likely in your "open everything" stance) could also cause unknown issues:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/05/up-to-100-uk-children-a-week-hospi
SB | |
| Avatar - M51 - The Whirlpool Galaxy - Taken on 29th April 2024 |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:01 - Feb 5 with 460 views | m14_blue |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:57 - Feb 5 by 26_Paz |
You’re going to have to accept that at some point the risks are going to worth taking. It’s a sensitive subject and one I have apologised for blundering into clumsily but a number of deaths will be acceptable to return society to normality. What that number is needs to be discussed sensibly. |
It does, but it’s a false dichotomy that’s being presented here.
Opening back up too early will mean ‘normality’ is further away, not closer, as it will almost certainly mean more restrictions will be needed a little way down the track.
A little bit of patience now will not only save lives but will also be beneficial for the economy in the medium term. This constant open/close is crippling, ask any business owner and I’m sure 99% of them would rather we take a bit longer but then actually have some certainty and the possibility of opening properly. |  | | |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:02 - Feb 5 with 456 views | Herbivore |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:59 - Feb 5 by GlasgowBlue |
With a vaccine being rolled out at an incredible rate, we’ve moved beyond the point of having to take risks.
Why fcuk it up when we are so close? |
Because Paz is absolutely gagging for a pint. | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:02 - Feb 5 with 457 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:48 - Feb 5 by bluelagos |
What about the nation generally?
Yesterday I am walking with a friend, keeping a sensible distance. An old couple coming the other way start frantically waving at us in a panic to move over. Now I am thinking a car, cyclist is about to run me over so spin round to see what the issue is.
Nothing coming so we carry on and they get more frantic, I check again and still no dangers coming. As I pass I get told / shouted at for being "A selfish prick" by the old lady and "A moron" by the old man.
It was then I realised they were wanting me to give them more space on the path.
So we have got to a state where old people verbally abuse complete strangers for walking on a path too close to them. Am sure they are not nasty or aggressive people ordinarily. Yet they are in such a state of anxiety they feel it acceptible to shout at strangers walking along a path...
Just one very minor example of the damage being done to ordinary people's mental health. |
Were you giving them a 2 meter gap between them and yourself? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:02 - Feb 5 with 457 views | footers |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 08:57 - Feb 5 by 26_Paz |
You’re going to have to accept that at some point the risks are going to worth taking. It’s a sensitive subject and one I have apologised for blundering into clumsily but a number of deaths will be acceptable to return society to normality. What that number is needs to be discussed sensibly. |
You volunteering your nan to be among these acceptable deaths, or is that too close to home? | |
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