| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions 23:10 - Feb 4 with 13329 views | StokieBlue |
So it looks like the Tory backbenchers and the Chancellor are applying pressure to try and get the government to bring forward the dates for considering easing the lockdown in England.
This is against the advice of SAGE who Sunak has stated are acting too conservatively. You also have Hunt coming out and saying lockdown should be continued until cases are to 1000 per day and Starmer saying we shouldn't open up too early like other times.
Then you have Chope on Newsnight saying that the 8th March should be "lockdown freedom day" when the public get their "liberties" back and other evidences showing that only 20% of people are following isolation orders.
The issue here is that if there are 20,000 cases a day, even if the R is low (say 0.6) then when you open up that is still a high baseline number of cases which can start growing exponentially again and it won't take long to get to high numbers. Counter to that, if you wait until cases are 5,000 per day it will take longer to reach higher cases and it will also allow more time for vaccinations before those cases reach a high level.
Interesting Chope refused to say what an acceptable number of cases were to open up, he said that isn't the point and that people should be able to exercise their freedom and even referred to the public as "prisoners" so that might give an indication where a number of Tory backbenchers are at the moment.
You also have Damien Green on Newsnight saying that this has to be the last lockdown for both economic and mental health reasons and in order for that to be the case we need come out in a cautious and pragmatic way due to the new variants.
So it seems there are two very solid blocks of opinion but very little agreement between the blocks.
What are peoples thoughts?
SB
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| Avatar - M51 - The Whirlpool Galaxy - Taken on 29th April 2024 |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:49 - Feb 4 with 764 views | Herbivore |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:44 - Feb 4 by 26_Paz |
As crude as this may sound I do not believe that a plus 80 person living another year or so is worth a year of a child’s education. |
It's quite something to see someone revel in being a total prick. |  |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:50 - Feb 4 with 759 views | 26_Paz |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:45 - Feb 4 by J2BLUE |
We were talking about 50 year olds, not 80 year olds. We were talking about people the age of our parents.
Would you feel differently if your nan had died? Again, i'm sorry to bring that up and I hope she's 100% better now. |
She’s out of hospital. The care home were shocked at the state she came back in. Bruises all over her arms, incredible sour patches due to unsanitary conditions and the hospital had even lost her teeth but she’s pulled through.
It’s a numbers game at the end of the day. Exiting lockdown earlier will cause extra deaths than staying locked down longer but I believe up to a certain number will be worth it. |  |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:50 - Feb 4 with 754 views | tractordownsouth |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:41 - Feb 4 by 26_Paz |
You have wilfully ignored that I said over 70s plus the clinically vulnerable. The vast majority of those under 70 in hospital will fall into the clinically vulnerable category. The youth have paid too high a price already (for the record at 34 I do not count myself in that category) |
As a youth, I’m more than happy to continue substituting pub drinking for zoom quizzes for an bit longer if that’s what the scientific evidence suggests. |  |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:51 - Feb 4 with 754 views | Herbivore |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:50 - Feb 4 by 26_Paz |
She’s out of hospital. The care home were shocked at the state she came back in. Bruises all over her arms, incredible sour patches due to unsanitary conditions and the hospital had even lost her teeth but she’s pulled through.
It’s a numbers game at the end of the day. Exiting lockdown earlier will cause extra deaths than staying locked down longer but I believe up to a certain number will be worth it. |
People should die so Paz can go to the pub. You're actual scum. | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:52 - Feb 4 with 748 views | 26_Paz |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:47 - Feb 4 by StokieBlue |
We aren't talking about a year of education though, we are talking about another month or two which isn't ideal but is probably preferable to having to have another lockdown with business and schools closed at some point which is the likely result of your "open everything" position.
Amazingly there could even be an intermediate position where we keep the pubs closed but allow children back to school. Given your concern for the kids that is surely the best way forward wouldn't you agree?
SB |
Absolutely agree schools should open before pubs. Schools now, pubs once the over 70s and vulnerable are vaccinated. | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:54 - Feb 4 with 744 views | J2BLUE |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:50 - Feb 4 by 26_Paz |
She’s out of hospital. The care home were shocked at the state she came back in. Bruises all over her arms, incredible sour patches due to unsanitary conditions and the hospital had even lost her teeth but she’s pulled through.
It’s a numbers game at the end of the day. Exiting lockdown earlier will cause extra deaths than staying locked down longer but I believe up to a certain number will be worth it. |
Glad to hear she's ok.
Just one final question if I can. What will be worth it? The economy will bounce back one month later if needed. I am interested to know why one extra month of freedom is so important? What is it you want to do? I just don't see the logic here. Taking a bit of extra time to vaccinate down to aged 50 would save lives, hopefully prevent transmission and therefore reduce the risk of a mutant, help prevent future lockdowns, ensure the NHS could cope and more. All for one extra month of you sitting at home with a beer watching Neflix instead of going out. |  |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:57 - Feb 4 with 731 views | StokieBlue |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:52 - Feb 4 by 26_Paz |
Absolutely agree schools should open before pubs. Schools now, pubs once the over 70s and vulnerable are vaccinated. |
You've changed your position because my proposal showed the flaws in your logic.
Why wasn't your original position to open schools immediately?
So in summary, you want to open up schools now whilst cases are still fairly high which will almost certainly result in an immediate jump in the R and an increase of cases putting pressure right back on the NHS and then a short time after that you want to open up everything which will create another surge into the already busy hospitals which likely then won't be able to cope.
If the hospitals are full then people of all ages will die, if you can't get breathing support then it's going to matter little what your ages is or your vulnerability if you have a high viral load.
You aren't looking at all the entire situation, only the bits that suit you.
SB | |
| Avatar - M51 - The Whirlpool Galaxy - Taken on 29th April 2024 |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:59 - Feb 4 with 713 views | 26_Paz |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:54 - Feb 4 by J2BLUE |
Glad to hear she's ok.
Just one final question if I can. What will be worth it? The economy will bounce back one month later if needed. I am interested to know why one extra month of freedom is so important? What is it you want to do? I just don't see the logic here. Taking a bit of extra time to vaccinate down to aged 50 would save lives, hopefully prevent transmission and therefore reduce the risk of a mutant, help prevent future lockdowns, ensure the NHS could cope and more. All for one extra month of you sitting at home with a beer watching Neflix instead of going out. |
So, one of my mates is off work with depression. His girlfriend left him just before all this and he just can’t cope being at home on his own. He’s now so pumped full of happy pills it’s like talking to a different person. All he needs is the routine of normal life and he’ll be fine. Another one of my mates has saved for years to buy his own place. He’s been out of work for 6 months and has lost most of his savings. His girlfriend is so depressed she doesn’t get out of bed most days. I want this to end as soon as possible. Basically I believe stopping younger people wasting their lives is more important than keeping a small number of older people alive. | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 00:06 - Feb 5 with 703 views | J2BLUE |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:59 - Feb 4 by 26_Paz |
So, one of my mates is off work with depression. His girlfriend left him just before all this and he just can’t cope being at home on his own. He’s now so pumped full of happy pills it’s like talking to a different person. All he needs is the routine of normal life and he’ll be fine. Another one of my mates has saved for years to buy his own place. He’s been out of work for 6 months and has lost most of his savings. His girlfriend is so depressed she doesn’t get out of bed most days. I want this to end as soon as possible. Basically I believe stopping younger people wasting their lives is more important than keeping a small number of older people alive. |
I sympathise with them. The thing about a global pandemic is that literally almost everyone in the world suffers. Some to lesser degrees than others obviously. I hope your friends and their partners get some good luck but again, we're not talking about older people. We're talking about 50-70 year olds. Both of your parents are about 60...smack in the middle.
One more month of lockdown to vaccinate another 10m people would be an incredible investment. I know you want the best for your friends but right now we don't know when this is going to be over. Imagine if they said one more month and on this date we can be fairly certain protection has kicked in for all over 50s and vulnerable people. People could begin making plans. It wouldn't be another month in the darkness. It would be that final walk towards the ever growing light. | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 00:07 - Feb 5 with 699 views | Rocky |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:36 - Feb 4 by 26_Paz |
I would be more than willing to take the risk. They’re both around 60 ... they’d be absolutely fine. |
It's your parents who would be taking the risk, not you.
Do you not have any feelings for them at all? |  | | |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 00:10 - Feb 5 with 696 views | Herbivore |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:57 - Feb 4 by StokieBlue |
You've changed your position because my proposal showed the flaws in your logic.
Why wasn't your original position to open schools immediately?
So in summary, you want to open up schools now whilst cases are still fairly high which will almost certainly result in an immediate jump in the R and an increase of cases putting pressure right back on the NHS and then a short time after that you want to open up everything which will create another surge into the already busy hospitals which likely then won't be able to cope.
If the hospitals are full then people of all ages will die, if you can't get breathing support then it's going to matter little what your ages is or your vulnerability if you have a high viral load.
You aren't looking at all the entire situation, only the bits that suit you.
SB |
You're wasting your time. It's either a troll or an utterly self-absorbed prick. Either way, it's impervious to reason. | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 00:12 - Feb 5 with 681 views | 26_Paz |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 00:07 - Feb 5 by Rocky |
It's your parents who would be taking the risk, not you.
Do you not have any feelings for them at all? |
Both of them are more anti lock down than me and would remove it all tomorrow if you have them half a chance! | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 00:13 - Feb 5 with 693 views | BlueBadger |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:31 - Feb 4 by 26_Paz |
There should be no restrictions on liberty whatsoever once the over 70s and the clinically vulnerable have been vaccinated. |
Literally everyone I've taken to ITU in the last 4 weeks has been under 70. |  |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 00:13 - Feb 5 with 683 views | 26_Paz |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 00:10 - Feb 5 by Herbivore |
You're wasting your time. It's either a troll or an utterly self-absorbed prick. Either way, it's impervious to reason. |
And here’s some utterly predictable abuse. If only I cared hey | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 00:14 - Feb 5 with 677 views | 26_Paz |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 00:06 - Feb 5 by J2BLUE |
I sympathise with them. The thing about a global pandemic is that literally almost everyone in the world suffers. Some to lesser degrees than others obviously. I hope your friends and their partners get some good luck but again, we're not talking about older people. We're talking about 50-70 year olds. Both of your parents are about 60...smack in the middle.
One more month of lockdown to vaccinate another 10m people would be an incredible investment. I know you want the best for your friends but right now we don't know when this is going to be over. Imagine if they said one more month and on this date we can be fairly certain protection has kicked in for all over 50s and vulnerable people. People could begin making plans. It wouldn't be another month in the darkness. It would be that final walk towards the ever growing light. |
Thanks for your kind words mate. I know it’s a tough debate but I just don’t think people can take much more. | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 00:15 - Feb 5 with 675 views | Herbivore |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 00:13 - Feb 5 by 26_Paz |
And here’s some utterly predictable abuse. If only I cared hey |
It's not abuse. And I wasn't talking to you. | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 00:15 - Feb 5 with 667 views | 26_Paz |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 00:15 - Feb 5 by Herbivore |
It's not abuse. And I wasn't talking to you. |
No, just about me. You won’t bully me off here. You should have got that by now. | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 00:16 - Feb 5 with 667 views | J2BLUE |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 00:14 - Feb 5 by 26_Paz |
Thanks for your kind words mate. I know it’s a tough debate but I just don’t think people can take much more. |
We'll have to agree to disagree. | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 00:17 - Feb 5 with 661 views | 26_Paz |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 00:16 - Feb 5 by J2BLUE |
We'll have to agree to disagree. |
Indeed, let’s hope we all come out of this in the best shape possible! | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 00:20 - Feb 5 with 655 views | Herbivore |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 00:15 - Feb 5 by 26_Paz |
No, just about me. You won’t bully me off here. You should have got that by now. |
Incredible that someone can say they're comfortable with old people dying so they can go to the pub in one breath, and in the next breath they moan about being bullied because someone points out the obvious fact they're either a troll or a prick. You'll get banned eventually anyway. | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 00:20 - Feb 5 with 659 views | BlueBadger |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 23:44 - Feb 4 by 26_Paz |
As crude as this may sound I do not believe that a plus 80 person living another year or so is worth a year of a child’s education. |
How do you feel about actually feeding these very vulnerable young people, whilst we're going down the crocodile tears route? [Post edited 5 Feb 2021 15:24]
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 00:21 - Feb 5 with 647 views | BlueBadger |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 00:13 - Feb 5 by BlueBadger |
Literally everyone I've taken to ITU in the last 4 weeks has been under 70. |
And not particularly 'clinically vulnerable', either.
One of them is still alive. | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 00:21 - Feb 5 with 643 views | J2BLUE |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 00:21 - Feb 5 by BlueBadger |
And not particularly 'clinically vulnerable', either.
One of them is still alive. |
Has the pressure on your hospital eased at all yet? | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 00:24 - Feb 5 with 635 views | BlueBadger |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 00:21 - Feb 5 by J2BLUE |
Has the pressure on your hospital eased at all yet? |
We had ITU beds today. Again, largely due to my previous post.
Took two to ITU. Both under 60. | |
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| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 00:26 - Feb 5 with 627 views | J2BLUE |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 00:24 - Feb 5 by BlueBadger |
We had ITU beds today. Again, largely due to my previous post.
Took two to ITU. Both under 60. |
Bleak.
Cheers. | |
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