| Measles isn't harmless.... again.... on 12:23 - Dec 5 with 567 views | homer_123 |
| Measles isn't harmless.... again.... on 11:36 - Dec 5 by caught-in-limbo |
An opposing mindset is different to alternative data. |
It most certainly is but here's the thing....if there were credible, alternative data that validates an opposing mindset - then there is mileage in your thinking.
However, if there isn't (and as SB has mentioned, the data is valid, rigourous and provable here), then it's merely your opinion (not an opposing mindset) - which is a whole different ballgame. |  |
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| Measles isn't harmless.... again.... on 13:49 - Dec 5 with 546 views | eireblue |
“Akin to assigning desirable traits to others, people who push agendas will assign desirable traits to themselves as well. ”
Hello, I am CIL, and I simply skeptical about things. What is wrong with being a skeptic, I am not pushing an agenda, in fact I don’t really have an opinion on anything, here are some alternatives though. Oh why are you all questioning me I am just a skeptic, and that is surely a good thing. |  | | |
| Measles isn't harmless.... again.... on 14:11 - Dec 5 with 536 views | caught-in-limbo |
| Measles isn't harmless.... again.... on 11:42 - Dec 5 by BlueBadger |
'It's so unfair. Why isn't my opinion treated as seriously as hard facts?'. |
No one is talking about opinion. I' haven't disputed the information provided by Stokie, I simply said it was an interesting article and said that it is best read along with material offering an alternative mindset. I haven't even given my opinion. |  |
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| Measles isn't harmless.... again.... on 14:12 - Dec 5 with 533 views | caught-in-limbo |
| Measles isn't harmless.... again.... on 11:43 - Dec 5 by BlueBadger |
It's in the whole post. The whole bleat about 'why are you relying on facts when I have an OPINION' nonsense. [Post edited 5 Dec 2019 11:55]
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I must have stated my opinion. I missed it though. Please tell me what my opinion on this story is. You must know, you've mentioned it at least twice. | |
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| Measles isn't harmless.... again.... on 14:15 - Dec 5 with 533 views | caught-in-limbo |
| Measles isn't harmless.... again.... on 12:23 - Dec 5 by homer_123 |
It most certainly is but here's the thing....if there were credible, alternative data that validates an opposing mindset - then there is mileage in your thinking.
However, if there isn't (and as SB has mentioned, the data is valid, rigourous and provable here), then it's merely your opinion (not an opposing mindset) - which is a whole different ballgame. |
Have you watched the video? Perhaps you'll understand what I mean my "different mindset", if you did. | |
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| Measles isn't harmless.... again.... on 14:22 - Dec 5 with 524 views | BlueBadger |
| Measles isn't harmless.... again.... on 14:11 - Dec 5 by caught-in-limbo |
No one is talking about opinion. I' haven't disputed the information provided by Stokie, I simply said it was an interesting article and said that it is best read along with material offering an alternative mindset. I haven't even given my opinion. |
LOL. |  |
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| Measles isn't harmless.... again.... on 14:25 - Dec 5 with 527 views | BlueBadger |
| Measles isn't harmless.... again.... on 14:15 - Dec 5 by caught-in-limbo |
Have you watched the video? Perhaps you'll understand what I mean my "different mindset", if you did. |
Tell you what, why don't you summarise it and explain why you've decided to drop this one in a thread about vaccination where 'different mindsets' run directly counter to actual facts as opposed to one of the party politics ones where it might actually make sense to place it? | |
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| Measles isn't harmless.... again.... on 14:28 - Dec 5 with 526 views | BlueBadger |
| Measles isn't harmless.... again.... on 14:25 - Dec 5 by BlueBadger |
Tell you what, why don't you summarise it and explain why you've decided to drop this one in a thread about vaccination where 'different mindsets' run directly counter to actual facts as opposed to one of the party politics ones where it might actually make sense to place it? |
And, for encore, why this model of 'different thinking' has led to all the downvotes for people offering actual factual information in the thread? | |
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| Measles isn't harmless.... again.... on 14:30 - Dec 5 with 524 views | StokieBlue |
| Measles isn't harmless.... again.... on 14:11 - Dec 5 by caught-in-limbo |
No one is talking about opinion. I' haven't disputed the information provided by Stokie, I simply said it was an interesting article and said that it is best read along with material offering an alternative mindset. I haven't even given my opinion. |
To be honest I am still struggling to understand how an alternative mindset can be applied to a fact. Can you please explain a bit more.
I mean I can have an alternative mindset that Jupiter is made of cheese but it's incorrect because we have the facts and evidence to prove thus.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Measles isn't harmless.... again.... on 14:32 - Dec 5 with 520 views | caught-in-limbo |
| Measles isn't harmless.... again.... on 13:49 - Dec 5 by eireblue |
“Akin to assigning desirable traits to others, people who push agendas will assign desirable traits to themselves as well. ”
Hello, I am CIL, and I simply skeptical about things. What is wrong with being a skeptic, I am not pushing an agenda, in fact I don’t really have an opinion on anything, here are some alternatives though. Oh why are you all questioning me I am just a skeptic, and that is surely a good thing. |
I'm very happy for anyone to question me, I've never steered away from that.
What is silly, is when people ask for evidence when I'm not even proposing an alternative hypothesis (as was the case with the thread about the London Bridge terrorist attack).
In this instance though, I'm wary of most claims made by the pharmaceutical industry. I don't reject everything they say, and have even had my own daughter vaccinated against most diseases, although not measles, (it's one of the non-compulsory vaccinations in Spain still). That really upsets some people. It usually upsets those who don't like freedom of choice and freedom of expression.
On another note, I've seen you've gone to full discredit mode with me these days. You used to provide research studies/articles to make your case, these days it's largely back handed insults and misrepresentation like in the post I'm responding to now.
I reckon you had more a lot more credibility with the old strategy. Your current strategy is just preaching to the converted and perhaps even comes across as bullying. I'm happy either way. Just a heads up for you. | |
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| Measles isn't harmless.... again.... on 14:34 - Dec 5 with 515 views | caught-in-limbo |
| Measles isn't harmless.... again.... on 14:30 - Dec 5 by StokieBlue |
To be honest I am still struggling to understand how an alternative mindset can be applied to a fact. Can you please explain a bit more.
I mean I can have an alternative mindset that Jupiter is made of cheese but it's incorrect because we have the facts and evidence to prove thus.
SB |
If you watch the video I linked, it would be very clear. It's not too long. | |
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| Measles isn't harmless.... again.... on 14:34 - Dec 5 with 517 views | wkj |
TIL that the term "Anti Vaxxer" is seen as derogatory, rather than a succinct description of someone who is against vaccinations.
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| Measles isn't harmless.... again.... on 14:40 - Dec 5 with 504 views | StokieBlue |
| Measles isn't harmless.... again.... on 14:34 - Dec 5 by wkj |
TIL that the term "Anti Vaxxer" is seen as derogatory, rather than a succinct description of someone who is against vaccinations.
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I posted a link about that further up, bizarre really.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Measles isn't harmless.... again.... on 14:51 - Dec 5 with 502 views | eireblue |
| Measles isn't harmless.... again.... on 14:32 - Dec 5 by caught-in-limbo |
I'm very happy for anyone to question me, I've never steered away from that.
What is silly, is when people ask for evidence when I'm not even proposing an alternative hypothesis (as was the case with the thread about the London Bridge terrorist attack).
In this instance though, I'm wary of most claims made by the pharmaceutical industry. I don't reject everything they say, and have even had my own daughter vaccinated against most diseases, although not measles, (it's one of the non-compulsory vaccinations in Spain still). That really upsets some people. It usually upsets those who don't like freedom of choice and freedom of expression.
On another note, I've seen you've gone to full discredit mode with me these days. You used to provide research studies/articles to make your case, these days it's largely back handed insults and misrepresentation like in the post I'm responding to now.
I reckon you had more a lot more credibility with the old strategy. Your current strategy is just preaching to the converted and perhaps even comes across as bullying. I'm happy either way. Just a heads up for you. |
"I'm very happy for anyone to question me, I've never steered away from that."
It is a public forum, people can post questions, to anyone else.
Nobody on this forum can steer away from someone else posting a question. That point is nonsensical.
It is the answers that are the important point.
You have avoided answers many times in the past.
"..I'm not even proposing an alternative.."
If you are not proposing an alternative, then there are no research papers to discount your view.
Since you don't state a view that can be countered by facts.
Unfortunately, you asked people to read an article, and you are a match to characteristics described in the article.
CIL: I am just a skeptic, I have no opinion you can challenge with facts, but by the way, here is an "alternative".
You are not a skeptic.
Put me on ignore if you think I am a bully, or report me to Phil. | | | |
| Measles isn't harmless.... again.... on 15:00 - Dec 5 with 496 views | caught-in-limbo |
| Measles isn't harmless.... again.... on 14:51 - Dec 5 by eireblue |
"I'm very happy for anyone to question me, I've never steered away from that."
It is a public forum, people can post questions, to anyone else.
Nobody on this forum can steer away from someone else posting a question. That point is nonsensical.
It is the answers that are the important point.
You have avoided answers many times in the past.
"..I'm not even proposing an alternative.."
If you are not proposing an alternative, then there are no research papers to discount your view.
Since you don't state a view that can be countered by facts.
Unfortunately, you asked people to read an article, and you are a match to characteristics described in the article.
CIL: I am just a skeptic, I have no opinion you can challenge with facts, but by the way, here is an "alternative".
You are not a skeptic.
Put me on ignore if you think I am a bully, or report me to Phil. |
Wow. Your comprehension skills are really really poor. You've pretty much misunderstood everything I've written. Where are you from by the way? | |
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| Measles isn't harmless.... again.... on 15:04 - Dec 5 with 492 views | BlueBadger |
| Measles isn't harmless.... again.... on 14:12 - Dec 5 by caught-in-limbo |
I must have stated my opinion. I missed it though. Please tell me what my opinion on this story is. You must know, you've mentioned it at least twice. |
I'm sure those downvotes where people stated actual facts about vaccines and then posted 'please be sceptical folks, these are only facts' plea leave absolutely no connection to your views on this.
Don't be shy now, people express witless fact-free opinion on here all the time, after all. | |
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| Measles isn't harmless.... again.... on 15:06 - Dec 5 with 491 views | lowhouseblue |
| Measles isn't harmless.... again.... on 14:32 - Dec 5 by caught-in-limbo |
I'm very happy for anyone to question me, I've never steered away from that.
What is silly, is when people ask for evidence when I'm not even proposing an alternative hypothesis (as was the case with the thread about the London Bridge terrorist attack).
In this instance though, I'm wary of most claims made by the pharmaceutical industry. I don't reject everything they say, and have even had my own daughter vaccinated against most diseases, although not measles, (it's one of the non-compulsory vaccinations in Spain still). That really upsets some people. It usually upsets those who don't like freedom of choice and freedom of expression.
On another note, I've seen you've gone to full discredit mode with me these days. You used to provide research studies/articles to make your case, these days it's largely back handed insults and misrepresentation like in the post I'm responding to now.
I reckon you had more a lot more credibility with the old strategy. Your current strategy is just preaching to the converted and perhaps even comes across as bullying. I'm happy either way. Just a heads up for you. |
"What is silly, is when people ask for evidence when I'm not even proposing an alternative hypothesis"
so really what you're trying to do is just spread doubt and mistrust based on a world view that even you are too embarrassed to set out. nice. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Measles isn't harmless.... again.... on 15:07 - Dec 5 with 488 views | footers |
Rubella always sounded like the more glamorous option from the three MMR amigos. |  |
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| "How to Gauge When Someone’s Pushing an Agenda" on 15:20 - Dec 5 with 479 views | Dyland |
Intellectually interesting, but completely fallacious, based as it is on a false premise (possibly/likely/who knows).
Ibbers, you know I love you, but even I have to point out that you ain't no skeptic, you is a cynic. There's quite a difference, as you no doubt know. |  |
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| Oh dear on 15:28 - Dec 5 with 472 views | Dyland |
| Measles isn't harmless.... again.... on 10:18 - Dec 5 by ElephantintheRoom |
Measles WAS pretty harmless back in the day because the population had built up resistance before vaccinations were readily available. Now most folk get their kids vaccinated that resistance is being lost in the UK population - and measles can be as bad in the UK as it is in Samoa - and was when Captain Cook and his ilk came a visiting.
Another interesting bit of medical reality is that food allergies were virtually unknown 50 years ago.... now its unusual not to have one that waitrose will happily cater for. |
Your first paragraph is incorrect and contradictory and batsh1t crazy even by your very low standards.
The second is a non-sequitur but I see what you're trying to do here.
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| Measles isn't harmless.... again.... on 16:51 - Dec 5 with 438 views | caught-in-limbo |
| Measles isn't harmless.... again.... on 15:06 - Dec 5 by lowhouseblue |
"What is silly, is when people ask for evidence when I'm not even proposing an alternative hypothesis"
so really what you're trying to do is just spread doubt and mistrust based on a world view that even you are too embarrassed to set out. nice. |
"so really what you're trying to do is just spread doubt and mistrust"
I appreciate that is the comeback these days. The Guardian pushes this idea a lot and it's entering popular discourse. It's also fashionable to say that people who spread distrust are working in a troll factory in St Petersberg somewhere.
It's nonsense.
I reserve the right to think that any government or media is talking carp. I think it happens quite a lot actually - probably most of the time. I think if anyone is trying to spread doubt and mistrust it's our leaders and the press. It's a mind control strategy. People want sanity and order. We generally want consensus. I think our leaders are trying to scramble our brains so that we democratically grant them greater powers of control over us to satisfy our need for order. Can I provide proof of this? Course I can't? Does it sound ridiculous? Probably to most, yes. Do I have to provide evidence of this? No. Am I spreading mistrust if I don't? No. You're big enough to believe what you want all by yourself. Am I leading stupid people astray? No. If anyone believes what I think, it's probably more plausible than the government/Press narrative. Am I embarrassed to say what I think? Not at all, I've spent my whole life doing it. | |
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| "How to Gauge When Someone’s Pushing an Agenda" on 16:57 - Dec 5 with 439 views | caught-in-limbo |
| "How to Gauge When Someone’s Pushing an Agenda" on 15:20 - Dec 5 by Dyland |
Intellectually interesting, but completely fallacious, based as it is on a false premise (possibly/likely/who knows).
Ibbers, you know I love you, but even I have to point out that you ain't no skeptic, you is a cynic. There's quite a difference, as you no doubt know. |
sceptic: a person who doubts the truth or value of an idea or belief https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/sceptic
cynic: a person who believes that people are only interested in themselves and are not sincere:
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/cynic
I reckon I'm a lot more sceptic than cynic.
But that's okay Dyllers, I really don't care what you think of me, I'm quite sincere about that.
By the way, what's the false premise? | |
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| Measles isn't harmless.... again.... on 17:01 - Dec 5 with 433 views | Lord_Lucan |
I nearly died of measles as a kid, in fact if I wasn't on an American air base at the time with immediate access to their hospital I would almost definitely now be brown bread.
"Bloody Yanks" I hear you all say. |  |
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| Measles isn't harmless.... again.... on 17:02 - Dec 5 with 425 views | StokieBlue |
| Measles isn't harmless.... again.... on 16:51 - Dec 5 by caught-in-limbo |
"so really what you're trying to do is just spread doubt and mistrust"
I appreciate that is the comeback these days. The Guardian pushes this idea a lot and it's entering popular discourse. It's also fashionable to say that people who spread distrust are working in a troll factory in St Petersberg somewhere.
It's nonsense.
I reserve the right to think that any government or media is talking carp. I think it happens quite a lot actually - probably most of the time. I think if anyone is trying to spread doubt and mistrust it's our leaders and the press. It's a mind control strategy. People want sanity and order. We generally want consensus. I think our leaders are trying to scramble our brains so that we democratically grant them greater powers of control over us to satisfy our need for order. Can I provide proof of this? Course I can't? Does it sound ridiculous? Probably to most, yes. Do I have to provide evidence of this? No. Am I spreading mistrust if I don't? No. You're big enough to believe what you want all by yourself. Am I leading stupid people astray? No. If anyone believes what I think, it's probably more plausible than the government/Press narrative. Am I embarrassed to say what I think? Not at all, I've spent my whole life doing it. |
At least you've been honest about your narrative now.
As for the rest of it, of course you are spreading mistrust and doubt. You have no evidence by your own admission yet you push it all the time. To say it can't be dangerous is nonsense, especially when it comes to vaccinations.
"No. You're big enough to believe what you want all by yourself."
That is an unbelievably poor cop-out and you know it. You can literally say anything, be it insulting, misleading or plain lies and use that line. Poor form.
SB [Post edited 5 Dec 2019 17:04]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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