| So, the NHS is up for sale 11:20 - Nov 27 with 8398 views | HARRY10 |
Which has a certain irony to it, as the very folk voting folk for it....elderly Tory voters are the very ones who will suffer through rising drugs costs.
And with the numbers on non UK medical and care staff leaving the UK that particular problem is only going to worsen.
Cynics might suggest this is merely a ploy by the Tories to cut the costs by wthdrawing care and treatment for the elderly. Hard faced gits might add that they will have brought it upon themselves.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50572454
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| So, the NHS is up for sale on 12:27 - Nov 27 with 2290 views | BlueBadger |
| So, the NHS is up for sale on 12:08 - Nov 27 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Its not hard to understand.
The initial claim makes huge headlines and gets in the sheep / voters minds.
The retraction goes unnoticed.
That's politics.
P.S. I am yet to decide who I'll vote for. Don't assume or presume. Just because I disagree with putting this kind of information out in an irresponsible way, doesn't make me a fan of Boris. |
Even if a quarter of this is correct, it's incredibly concerning. The profit impetus has been a bad deal for healthcare in this country for decades now. Adding in predatory large US firms in whatever capacity will be disastrous. |  |
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| So, the NHS is up for sale on 12:30 - Nov 27 with 2287 views | flimflam |
| So, the NHS is up for sale on 12:10 - Nov 27 by homer_123 |
Private healthcare and benefiting everyone is where the problem lies. How do you square that? |
I'm not an expert but it works well in other countries where people are not left to die on the street. To completely disregard it because our NHS is some kind of sacred entity is silly. [Post edited 27 Nov 2019 12:35]
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| All men and women are created, by the, you know the, you know the thing. |
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| So, the NHS is up for sale on 12:33 - Nov 27 with 2278 views | flimflam |
| So, the NHS is up for sale on 12:11 - Nov 27 by HARRY10 |
That is just a collection of well worn cliches.
And if you want to see where profit overides clinical need you only have to look at the ramshackle almost third world health care system in the US, where huge sums are spent on administrating an over beauracratic insurance system that is aimed at benefitting it's shareholhers as with pet insurance in the UK. |
So you highlight one that is poor but not the many that work far better and efficiently than the NHS. | |
| All men and women are created, by the, you know the, you know the thing. |
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| So, the NHS is up for sale on 12:34 - Nov 27 with 2277 views | BlueNomad |
| So, the NHS is up for sale on 12:05 - Nov 27 by BloomBlue |
So why does everyone assume it will be bad if it does happen?
Has anyone actually performed any sort of true comparison or is it a case of we'll say it's bad, so it must be bad. |
If the Tories want to do it then its bad......... |  | | |
| So, the NHS is up for sale on 12:36 - Nov 27 with 2272 views | BlueBadger |
| So, the NHS is up for sale on 11:26 - Nov 27 by smithy91 |
A lot of flouncing on here about headlines this morning...
If you haven't read the documents, how can you know this was more than merely the US trying to play that card with the government resisting.
Tories have done some silly things, but this would be political suicide for the next election after this one. I don't think they are that stupid
The management and structure of the NHS needs serious review and change regardless of who is in power, its not just a fix to throw money at it.
The Labour government under Blair/Brown privatised parts of the NHS don't forget... [Post edited 27 Nov 2019 11:59]
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They won't be stupid enough to do an overt privatisation. What they *will* do if have 'NHS' on letterheads and buildings for 'brand recognition' but wholesale services will be run by profiteers reaping profits from an unregulated 'internal market' funding by NI contributions on an even larger scale than we have now. A US trade deal will see something like CCGs being pressured or even obliged to add extra weighting to US companies when considering bidders A lot of services will become narrower in their focus, most likely with staffing cuts and anything remotely complicated, will be passed over to an ever-smaller sector which is truly publicly run. It's be wonderful for those with 'single issue' conditions but terrible for the those(who tend to be the non-profitable majority or people like Your Poor Old Mum Who Does Very Well Considering with a combination of acute and chronic conditions.
I quite agree about structural changes. The current system is overly red-tapey. Not helped by the internal market which forces tendering of services and costs upwards of £4billion a year. for context the much-reviled 'health tourists' bill is 8 times smaller than that, at top estimate.
Blair and Brown may have tinkered around the edges, but what we're talking about here is wholesale(in every sense of the word) deregulation and selling off which will be of benefit very few, certainly not patients, staff or taxpayers. [Post edited 30 Nov 2019 1:56]
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| So, the NHS is up for sale on 12:37 - Nov 27 with 2263 views | BlueBadger |
| So, the NHS is up for sale on 12:30 - Nov 27 by flimflam |
I'm not an expert but it works well in other countries where people are not left to die on the street. To completely disregard it because our NHS is some kind of sacred entity is silly. [Post edited 27 Nov 2019 12:35]
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Generally across the continent you'll only pay for elective stuff. Pretty much everything else is state funded. The main difference is money per capita paid in. We lag well behind Europe in that respect. | |
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| So, the NHS is up for sale on 12:38 - Nov 27 with 2258 views | BlueBadger |
| So, the NHS is up for sale on 12:10 - Nov 27 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Ha ha, hes quoted 3 pages of a 500 page document! lol
Context my friend, context. |
The context here is 'Tories had publicly funded healthcare because their mates can't make any money'. | |
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| So, the NHS is up for sale on 12:42 - Nov 27 with 2246 views | BlueBadger |
| So, the NHS is up for sale on 12:33 - Nov 27 by flimflam |
So you highlight one that is poor but not the many that work far better and efficiently than the NHS. |
Most continental health services work better because they're better funded at state level. Not because of Efficient Public Sector involvement. Which usually only extends to certain low-risk, elective work. | |
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| or corbyn is fibbing on 12:43 - Nov 27 with 2244 views | BlueBadger |
I'm sure Guido will be totally unbiased and truthful in his evaluation of this. | |
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| So, the NHS is up for sale on 12:45 - Nov 27 with 2238 views | WD19 |
| So, the NHS is up for sale on 11:22 - Nov 27 by Marshalls_Mullet |
...so the BBC hasnt analysed the dossier.
....I assume you have?
Suspect that the headline is misleading. |
Its standard operating procedure on here from the bots recently. Every few hours a political 'headline' appears just to pollute the board and then a conversation (often nothing to do with the original errant headline) ensures the message is kept floating at the top of the board.
You and I facilitate it by responding....as we have done here...... |  | | |
| or corbyn is fibbing on 12:50 - Nov 27 with 2224 views | lowhouseblue |
| or corbyn is fibbing on 12:43 - Nov 27 by BlueBadger |
I'm sure Guido will be totally unbiased and truthful in his evaluation of this. |
he provides the document to explain his conclusions. is he more or less biased than corbyn? |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| or corbyn is fibbing on 12:53 - Nov 27 with 2217 views | BlueBadger |
| or corbyn is fibbing on 12:50 - Nov 27 by lowhouseblue |
he provides the document to explain his conclusions. is he more or less biased than corbyn? |
I suspect that there's enough paperwork in there to justify any point you make. Frankly, if even 25% of it is true, it's a very worrying prospect. [Post edited 27 Nov 2019 12:53]
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| So, the NHS is up for sale on 12:55 - Nov 27 with 2222 views | baxterbasics |
Not going through the whole document because 'aint nobody got time etc..
But there is a big difference between opening trade to the US drug market as a purchase option, and "selling off the NHS"
US generic drug prices are often cheaper than what the NHS is currently paying. Newer drugs under patent are a different story of course.
My Dad lived in the USA for a few years whilst being treated for the aftermath of a brain tumour removal. His monthly drugs bill was $700. Thankfully his insurance covered it. His own observation was that many of the drugs would not even be available currently on the NHS.
There are many problems with the US health system; I find it wierd that any discussion about the NHS leads to instant comparison with the US when actually there are many different models around the world that we might benefit from studying.
Anyhoo bottom line is Labour are bu//$#itting as per usual in the hope the attack line sticks. |  |
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| So, the NHS is up for sale on 12:57 - Nov 27 with 2209 views | BlueBadger |
| So, the NHS is up for sale on 12:55 - Nov 27 by baxterbasics |
Not going through the whole document because 'aint nobody got time etc..
But there is a big difference between opening trade to the US drug market as a purchase option, and "selling off the NHS"
US generic drug prices are often cheaper than what the NHS is currently paying. Newer drugs under patent are a different story of course.
My Dad lived in the USA for a few years whilst being treated for the aftermath of a brain tumour removal. His monthly drugs bill was $700. Thankfully his insurance covered it. His own observation was that many of the drugs would not even be available currently on the NHS.
There are many problems with the US health system; I find it wierd that any discussion about the NHS leads to instant comparison with the US when actually there are many different models around the world that we might benefit from studying.
Anyhoo bottom line is Labour are bu//$#itting as per usual in the hope the attack line sticks. |
So, the NHS is up for sale by BlueBadger 27 Nov 2019 12:36They won't be stupid enough to do an overt privatisation. What they *will* do if have 'NHS' on letterheads and buildings for 'brand recognition' but wholesale services will be run by profiteers reaping profits from an unregulated 'internal market' funding by NI contributions on an even larger scale than we have now. A US trade deal will see something like CCGs being pressured or even obliged to add extra weighting to US companies when considering bidders A lot of services will become narrower in their focus, most likely with staffing cuts and anything remotely complicated, will be passed over to an ever-smaller sector which is truly publicly run. It's be wonderful for those with 'single issue' conditions but terrible for the those(who tend to be the non-profitable majority or people like Your Poor Old Mum Who Does Very Well Considering with a combination of acute and chronic conditions.
I quite agree about structural changes. The current system is overly red-tapey. Not helped by the internal market which forces tendering of services and costs upwards of £4billion a year. for context the much-reviled 'health tourists' bill is 8 times smaller than that, at top estimate.
Blair and Brown may have tinkered around the edges, but what we're talking about here is wholesale(in every sense of the word) deregulation and selling off which will be of benefit very few, certainly not patients, staff or taxpayers.
Also re: generic drug prices, I'm not sure where you've got that from..
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-u-s-pays-3-times-more-for-dru | |
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| or corbyn is fibbing on 13:00 - Nov 27 with 2205 views | lowhouseblue |
| or corbyn is fibbing on 12:53 - Nov 27 by BlueBadger |
I suspect that there's enough paperwork in there to justify any point you make. Frankly, if even 25% of it is true, it's a very worrying prospect. [Post edited 27 Nov 2019 12:53]
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more from him which does suggest that corbyn's line is misleading:
https://order-order.com/2019/11/27/corbyn-claims-documents-say-versus-actually-s | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| So, the NHS is up for sale on 13:08 - Nov 27 with 2179 views | jas0999 |
Is it? Are you sure? | | | |
| So, the NHS is up for sale on 13:10 - Nov 27 with 2181 views | BlueBadger |
| So, the NHS is up for sale on 13:08 - Nov 27 by jas0999 |
Is it? Are you sure? |
The 2012 Heath and Social Care act essentially obliges all services to be put to tender, so, yes. | |
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| So, the NHS is up for sale on 13:31 - Nov 27 with 2152 views | ElephantintheRoom |
Oldies get free prescriptions so they wont pay anyway.
NHS services have been sold off regularly by the Tories. The last one to be brushed under the carpet was Hunt's sale of the blood plasma distribution service to an American company for £200 million, who sold it to the Chinese for £800million two years later. | |
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| So, the NHS is up for sale on 13:39 - Nov 27 with 2146 views | jeera |
I just received a text reminding me of a doctor's appointment for last Thursday, so it's already fecked.
I don't know if that's the fault of the US or Johnson or who to blame.
I'm going with Corbyn for not being a stiff enough opposition. |  |
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| So, the NHS is up for sale on 13:57 - Nov 27 with 2121 views | factual_blue |
| So, the NHS is up for sale on 13:39 - Nov 27 by jeera |
I just received a text reminding me of a doctor's appointment for last Thursday, so it's already fecked.
I don't know if that's the fault of the US or Johnson or who to blame.
I'm going with Corbyn for not being a stiff enough opposition. |
I'm going for you living in an area with a very poor mobile signal. |  |
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| So, the NHS is up for sale on 15:02 - Nov 27 with 2097 views | GlasgowBlue |
This thread hasn't gone as well for you as you had expected. |  |
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| So, the NHS is up for sale on 15:40 - Nov 27 with 2073 views | jaykay |
| So, the NHS is up for sale on 15:02 - Nov 27 by GlasgowBlue |
This thread hasn't gone as well for you as you had expected. |
so blue badger has more or less confirmed what the thread title is true. so its gone well except for some right wingers getting their facts straightened e.g. film flam, marshalls mullet,etc by our n.h.s guru so its gone ok for harry |  |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
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| So, the NHS is up for sale on 15:48 - Nov 27 with 2066 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| So, the NHS is up for sale on 15:40 - Nov 27 by jaykay |
so blue badger has more or less confirmed what the thread title is true. so its gone well except for some right wingers getting their facts straightened e.g. film flam, marshalls mullet,etc by our n.h.s guru so its gone ok for harry |
He hasn’t - BlueBadger has mentioned about other areas being privatised and a previous bill, however the OP is clearly in reference to Labour’s claim today re the NHS being offered to the US in a trade deal
EDIT: to add it seems from subsequent reports that Labours claims have been somewhat overstated in terms of the content, and that largely it is just outlining what the US may want rather than any agreement (which we already knew anyway). However it’s clearly still a concern [Post edited 27 Nov 2019 15:58]
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| So, the NHS is up for sale on 15:52 - Nov 27 with 2062 views | Bluedandy |
Calamity Corbyn's campaign is unravelling so ergo the Marxist fossil plays Trump card with a dodgy dossier about evil Tories selling off the NHS.
Dresses like Mr Bean and now campaigns like Mr Bean.
Bye bye Jezza. | | | |
| So, the NHS is up for sale on 17:08 - Nov 27 with 2028 views | jaykay |
| So, the NHS is up for sale on 15:48 - Nov 27 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
He hasn’t - BlueBadger has mentioned about other areas being privatised and a previous bill, however the OP is clearly in reference to Labour’s claim today re the NHS being offered to the US in a trade deal
EDIT: to add it seems from subsequent reports that Labours claims have been somewhat overstated in terms of the content, and that largely it is just outlining what the US may want rather than any agreement (which we already knew anyway). However it’s clearly still a concern [Post edited 27 Nov 2019 15:58]
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trump has said n.h.s should be on the table at 1.22 | |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
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