| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? 15:13 - Oct 7 with 16698 views | BrixtonBlue |
Presumably if you were able to measure the brainwaves of babies in the womb, you'd see that they are conscious of their surroundings, and this develops over time and through parental, peer and societal influences.
But at what point am I thinking/conscious?
And why am *I* having this consciousness? Why did *I* (whatever *I* is) come to be inside this particular human that you all know and love?
I'm a bit busy today so I'll be back later to see how you're doing. |  |
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| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 11:42 - Oct 8 with 3256 views | tabletopjoe |
| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 11:17 - Oct 8 by chicoazul |
I think he may go for Islam in the end though. |
It’s certainly very fashionable in the UK currently, I’m sure he won’t be disappointed |  |
| 'Let the ignorant argue with themselves' -- CL |
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| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 11:42 - Oct 8 with 3249 views | StokieBlue |
| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 11:42 - Oct 8 by tabletopjoe |
It’s certainly very fashionable in the UK currently, I’m sure he won’t be disappointed |
Do you have a larger point to make around that heavily laced sentence?
SB |  |
| Avatar - M51 - The Whirlpool Galaxy - Taken on 29th April 2024 |
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| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 11:57 - Oct 8 with 3214 views | Herbivore |
| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 11:42 - Oct 8 by tabletopjoe |
It’s certainly very fashionable in the UK currently, I’m sure he won’t be disappointed |
Ladies and gents, we have reached peak edgelord. |  |
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| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 13:01 - Oct 8 with 3189 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 10:22 - Oct 8 by jeera |
High.
Level.
Low[er] level. |
Ah. I was having a blonde moment then. | |
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| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 13:02 - Oct 8 with 3187 views | SpruceMoose |
| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 13:01 - Oct 8 by BrixtonBlue |
Ah. I was having a blonde moment then. |
I didn't know you studied for a Philosophy degree Dollers. What made you choose that path? |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 13:03 - Oct 8 with 3186 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 11:04 - Oct 8 by Herbivore |
Masters, maybe even PhD. Undergrad degrees are meh |
Fairy nuff. I certainly found it interesting and in an ideal world would like to delve deeper (or higher!) | |
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| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 13:09 - Oct 8 with 3172 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 13:02 - Oct 8 by SpruceMoose |
I didn't know you studied for a Philosophy degree Dollers. What made you choose that path? |
I'd actually signed up to study English Language & Communication as my main thing, and needed to choose other modules to go with it. I didn't really know what Philosophy was at the time, but when I went to all the introductory talks it stood out as something I'd find fascinating. And indeed, it was.
You could choose up to 4 modules in total. I went for the full 4, with Journalism and Creative Writing being the other two. | |
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| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 13:11 - Oct 8 with 3167 views | footers |
| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 13:03 - Oct 8 by BrixtonBlue |
Fairy nuff. I certainly found it interesting and in an ideal world would like to delve deeper (or higher!) |
Honestly, Dollers, the conscious in terms of philosophy is a rabbit hole. As herbie says, it is more or less intellectual masturbation with no real pay-off. |  |
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| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 13:15 - Oct 8 with 3157 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 13:11 - Oct 8 by footers |
Honestly, Dollers, the conscious in terms of philosophy is a rabbit hole. As herbie says, it is more or less intellectual masturbation with no real pay-off. |
To be honest I was trying to trick the science bods into admitting there might be a god/supernatural happening.
In reality it would just be a god of gaps. | |
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| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 13:15 - Oct 8 with 3146 views | Herbivore |
| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 13:03 - Oct 8 by BrixtonBlue |
Fairy nuff. I certainly found it interesting and in an ideal world would like to delve deeper (or higher!) |
I was partially yanking your chain, but from experience I think it was when I got beyond degree level that I started to realise what a load of w@nk philosophy is when you really get down to it. It's interesting (to begin with) and is great for teaching critical thinking and how to construct and deconstruct an argument, but that aside a lot of philosophical debates are ultimately pointless. | |
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| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 13:29 - Oct 8 with 3141 views | wkj |
| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 13:11 - Oct 8 by footers |
Honestly, Dollers, the conscious in terms of philosophy is a rabbit hole. As herbie says, it is more or less intellectual masturbation with no real pay-off. |
There is a pay off, the satisfaction of creating a 10 pager. |  |
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| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 15:00 - Oct 8 with 3117 views | caught-in-limbo |
| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 10:06 - Oct 8 by wkj |
All I see now is "Stokie posted, must counter with something" |
Yep, I posted a rewording of this quote which is not a world away from Skokie's mocking post on the previous page.
Herbie thinks Einstein's view is hilarious.
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| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 08:58 - Oct 12 with 2969 views | WeWereZombies |
| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 13:15 - Oct 8 by Herbivore |
I was partially yanking your chain, but from experience I think it was when I got beyond degree level that I started to realise what a load of w@nk philosophy is when you really get down to it. It's interesting (to begin with) and is great for teaching critical thinking and how to construct and deconstruct an argument, but that aside a lot of philosophical debates are ultimately pointless. |
Although if life is ultimately pointless your argument falls apart before it has started.
Or, to put it another way, if the second law of thermodynamics holds then...what?... |  |
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| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 09:03 - Oct 12 with 2958 views | Herbivore |
| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 08:58 - Oct 12 by WeWereZombies |
Although if life is ultimately pointless your argument falls apart before it has started.
Or, to put it another way, if the second law of thermodynamics holds then...what?... |
I'm not making an argument, I'm offering an opinion based on my experiences. | |
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| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 09:07 - Oct 12 with 2963 views | StokieBlue |
| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 08:58 - Oct 12 by WeWereZombies |
Although if life is ultimately pointless your argument falls apart before it has started.
Or, to put it another way, if the second law of thermodynamics holds then...what?... |
If one wants to be brutal about it then ultimately life on an individual level is pointless - nature just considers you a vector for your genes to progress to the next generation.
I guess it could be argued that humans have lifted themselves out of that race and that evolutionary principals don't really apply to us anymore. Further there is nothing to say that on an individual level we can't enjoy our years as the vector for our genes.
I think most certainly try to!
SB | |
| Avatar - M51 - The Whirlpool Galaxy - Taken on 29th April 2024 |
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| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 09:11 - Oct 12 with 2956 views | footers |
Back on the old philosophising, eh?
How's this for a meaning of life, eggheads: rock out, get high, support ITFC. End of .
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| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 09:20 - Oct 12 with 2937 views | Herbivore |
| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 09:11 - Oct 12 by footers |
Back on the old philosophising, eh?
How's this for a meaning of life, eggheads: rock out, get high, support ITFC. End of .
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So long as I can rock out with my cock out, I'm on board. | |
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| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 09:25 - Oct 12 with 2937 views | footers |
| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 09:20 - Oct 12 by Herbivore |
So long as I can rock out with my cock out, I'm on board. |
Sure thing, kinnockers, whatever please you. | |
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| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 09:32 - Oct 12 with 2934 views | WeWereZombies |
| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 09:07 - Oct 12 by StokieBlue |
If one wants to be brutal about it then ultimately life on an individual level is pointless - nature just considers you a vector for your genes to progress to the next generation.
I guess it could be argued that humans have lifted themselves out of that race and that evolutionary principals don't really apply to us anymore. Further there is nothing to say that on an individual level we can't enjoy our years as the vector for our genes.
I think most certainly try to!
SB |
...nature considers...???
Perhaps you are imbuing 'nature' with consciousness in that statement, although if I were to accuse you of anthropomorphising nature in its entirety then I would, linguistically, be affirming human beings as at the top of some kind of pyramid of sentience. Can we separate sentience from consciousness? | |
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| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 09:43 - Oct 12 with 2926 views | StokieBlue |
| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 09:32 - Oct 12 by WeWereZombies |
...nature considers...???
Perhaps you are imbuing 'nature' with consciousness in that statement, although if I were to accuse you of anthropomorphising nature in its entirety then I would, linguistically, be affirming human beings as at the top of some kind of pyramid of sentience. Can we separate sentience from consciousness? |
It's not "considers" in a conscious way - just in an evolutionary way. Humans are a means to an end which is to progress the genes to the next generation.
We probably aspire to make it more in order to stop ourselves going mad and the fact we can learn and communicate means we can pass on knowledge which skews the details. We obviously have the ability to think and reason which in itself is an evolved trait but it doesn't mean we are, at the baseline, any different to the other organisms on the planet.
Cleverer yes, fundamentally different with a higher purpose, probably not.
SB | |
| Avatar - M51 - The Whirlpool Galaxy - Taken on 29th April 2024 |
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| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 09:49 - Oct 12 with 2921 views | sparks |
| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 09:43 - Oct 12 by StokieBlue |
It's not "considers" in a conscious way - just in an evolutionary way. Humans are a means to an end which is to progress the genes to the next generation.
We probably aspire to make it more in order to stop ourselves going mad and the fact we can learn and communicate means we can pass on knowledge which skews the details. We obviously have the ability to think and reason which in itself is an evolved trait but it doesn't mean we are, at the baseline, any different to the other organisms on the planet.
Cleverer yes, fundamentally different with a higher purpose, probably not.
SB |
Agree with paras 2 and 3.
As to para 1- yes, but I think its important to remind people that genes and evolution have no agency. There is no "purpose" or intent. Its not a ladder, or a plan. People fall so easily into that thinking. |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 10:00 - Oct 12 with 2912 views | WeWereZombies |
| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 09:49 - Oct 12 by sparks |
Agree with paras 2 and 3.
As to para 1- yes, but I think its important to remind people that genes and evolution have no agency. There is no "purpose" or intent. Its not a ladder, or a plan. People fall so easily into that thinking. |
So if there is no agency how can an entity decide? Ah, I have considered (!) it as a matter of decision and not as some form of binary (perhaps) optimisation in which the strongest force wins (!!) out. But why is the strongest force the strongest force?
Something must have decided (!!!) that in the first place. Otherwise nothing would ever happen. Or if it did there would be nothing to stop things just fizzling out anyway. Which could destroy entropy. And that would be against the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Not that there would be anything around to enforce that law... | |
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| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 10:03 - Oct 12 with 2908 views | sparks |
| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 10:00 - Oct 12 by WeWereZombies |
So if there is no agency how can an entity decide? Ah, I have considered (!) it as a matter of decision and not as some form of binary (perhaps) optimisation in which the strongest force wins (!!) out. But why is the strongest force the strongest force?
Something must have decided (!!!) that in the first place. Otherwise nothing would ever happen. Or if it did there would be nothing to stop things just fizzling out anyway. Which could destroy entropy. And that would be against the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Not that there would be anything around to enforce that law... |
Word salad alert.
I have absolutely no clue what you think you are saying. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 10:21 - Oct 12 with 2898 views | WeWereZombies |
| Another one for the science bods - where does my consciousness come from? on 10:03 - Oct 12 by sparks |
Word salad alert.
I have absolutely no clue what you think you are saying. |
Oh you are a fool at times.... | |
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