| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem 22:37 - Sep 4 with 7524 views | Bluedandy |
... appears to imply, possibly rightly, that parliament derives its sovereignty from the people and therefore does not possess a divine right to defy the biggest democratic mandate in British political history.
Recent shenanigans are not really about blocking no deal, it's all about blocking Brexit and parliamentarians are hoping millions of working-class people are just too stupid to work it out.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/09/03/today-was-a-very-dark-day-for-british-d |  | | |  |
| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 10:23 - Sep 5 with 2834 views | tabletopjoe |
| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 10:22 - Sep 5 by GaryCooper |
If I wished for a totally unbiased, no agenda news feed who would you suggest please?
It is becoming increasingly difficult. |
Such a thing has never existed. |  |
| 'Let the ignorant argue with themselves' -- CL |
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| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 10:25 - Sep 5 with 2826 views | flimflam |
| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 08:25 - Sep 5 by homer_123 |
Also - am I correct in thinking that the bill that passed last night and that could go through Monday could simply be repelled by a new incoming government.
In short, should Boris win the election with a majority, he can simply remove it.
I know that the liklihood of the Tories winning and winning with the majority is slim to none but.....well.....Trump, Corbyn etc etc |
Correct.
And the Tories will win a majority and what you mentioned will happen. |  |
| All men and women are created, by the, you know the, you know the thing. |
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| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 10:32 - Sep 5 with 2789 views | GaryCooper |
| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 10:23 - Sep 5 by tabletopjoe |
Such a thing has never existed. |
I will continue to use TWTD as my source then. |  | | |
| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 10:53 - Sep 5 with 2756 views | Guthrum |
| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 08:25 - Sep 5 by homer_123 |
Also - am I correct in thinking that the bill that passed last night and that could go through Monday could simply be repelled by a new incoming government.
In short, should Boris win the election with a majority, he can simply remove it.
I know that the liklihood of the Tories winning and winning with the majority is slim to none but.....well.....Trump, Corbyn etc etc |
Which is precisely why a lot of the opposition want the extension actually enacted before the GE happens (i.e. after October 19th).
There also needs to be time for potential coalition/alliance negotiations should the result be another Hung Parliament.
It also has the added advantage for the opposition of giving Johnson a chance to make a fool of himself at the EU Council meeting and making it obvious he hasn't really been working towards any kind of deal. |  |
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| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 11:01 - Sep 5 with 2745 views | Herbivore |
| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 10:22 - Sep 5 by GaryCooper |
If I wished for a totally unbiased, no agenda news feed who would you suggest please?
It is becoming increasingly difficult. |
No source is totally unbiased but I wouldn't even consider Spiked to be a news source. If you if ignore their opinion pieces the Guardian have high editorial standards when it comes to news, as does the BBC as a publicly funded institution. I don't always agree with either but they aren't essentially blogs written by pretty dubious characters and funded by organisations in the US that promote libertarianism. |  |
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| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 11:04 - Sep 5 with 2736 views | StokieBlue |
| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 10:22 - Sep 5 by GaryCooper |
If I wished for a totally unbiased, no agenda news feed who would you suggest please?
It is becoming increasingly difficult. |
There is a huge difference between totally unbiased and that website which is unbelievably biased. Just look at the other news stories.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 11:23 - Sep 5 with 2703 views | GaryCooper |
| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 11:04 - Sep 5 by StokieBlue |
There is a huge difference between totally unbiased and that website which is unbelievably biased. Just look at the other news stories.
SB |
Agreed, it is a genuine request for a feed that can be trusted and that has a genuine level view. | | | |
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| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 11:35 - Sep 5 with 2686 views | midastouch |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/eu_referendum/results/local/i
Ipswich
Leave 58.3%
38,655 VOTES
Remain 41.7%
27,698 VOTES
Given the above TWTD doesn't seem much of a microcosm for the public opinion of Ipswich as this forum is clearly a staunch remain zone. Yet Ipswich voted decisively over and above the national average to leave. So the loud minority on here are clearly not speaking for the democratic will of the people of Ipswich.
Yes hindsight is a wonderful thing but nonetheless Referendums are not meant to work like that. You go and vote on the day based on what you think is best and then the matter is meant to be settled. Each side will spin their case and use every trick in the book to convince you that they should be believed over the other side, just as happens in every General Election. There have been plenty of lies told in manifestos, nonetheless, we don't say a year or two later (when the honeymoon is well and truly over for the new government) that the vote was not valid because the winning team spun a lot of their supposed facts and figures during the election campaign.
The people of Ipswich have spoken decisively. 41.7% of you may not like the outcome but that's the way the cookie crumbles. [Post edited 5 Sep 2019 11:57]
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| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 12:06 - Sep 5 with 2625 views | BlueNomad |
| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 11:35 - Sep 5 by midastouch |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/eu_referendum/results/local/i
Ipswich
Leave 58.3%
38,655 VOTES
Remain 41.7%
27,698 VOTES
Given the above TWTD doesn't seem much of a microcosm for the public opinion of Ipswich as this forum is clearly a staunch remain zone. Yet Ipswich voted decisively over and above the national average to leave. So the loud minority on here are clearly not speaking for the democratic will of the people of Ipswich.
Yes hindsight is a wonderful thing but nonetheless Referendums are not meant to work like that. You go and vote on the day based on what you think is best and then the matter is meant to be settled. Each side will spin their case and use every trick in the book to convince you that they should be believed over the other side, just as happens in every General Election. There have been plenty of lies told in manifestos, nonetheless, we don't say a year or two later (when the honeymoon is well and truly over for the new government) that the vote was not valid because the winning team spun a lot of their supposed facts and figures during the election campaign.
The people of Ipswich have spoken decisively. 41.7% of you may not like the outcome but that's the way the cookie crumbles. [Post edited 5 Sep 2019 11:57]
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"That's the way the cookie crumbles" always implies to me that it is something where you can mutter, shrug and carry on. The way we are heading is more serious than that and, as I am in my 60's, something that may well have a detrimental effect on this country for the rest of my life. |  | | |
| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 12:07 - Sep 5 with 2623 views | Guthrum |
| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 11:35 - Sep 5 by midastouch |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/eu_referendum/results/local/i
Ipswich
Leave 58.3%
38,655 VOTES
Remain 41.7%
27,698 VOTES
Given the above TWTD doesn't seem much of a microcosm for the public opinion of Ipswich as this forum is clearly a staunch remain zone. Yet Ipswich voted decisively over and above the national average to leave. So the loud minority on here are clearly not speaking for the democratic will of the people of Ipswich.
Yes hindsight is a wonderful thing but nonetheless Referendums are not meant to work like that. You go and vote on the day based on what you think is best and then the matter is meant to be settled. Each side will spin their case and use every trick in the book to convince you that they should be believed over the other side, just as happens in every General Election. There have been plenty of lies told in manifestos, nonetheless, we don't say a year or two later (when the honeymoon is well and truly over for the new government) that the vote was not valid because the winning team spun a lot of their supposed facts and figures during the election campaign.
The people of Ipswich have spoken decisively. 41.7% of you may not like the outcome but that's the way the cookie crumbles. [Post edited 5 Sep 2019 11:57]
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How many of that 58.3% wanted to leave without a deal or withdrawal agreement? Polls consistently show only a small proportion of those who voted Leave in 2016 want No Deal.
I voted Remain, am willing to put up with leaving in an orderly fashion (indeed lobbied my MP to vote for May's deal, which is more than most Brexiteers did), but am not prepared to accept a damaging leave-at-all-cost outcome, for which we are not prepared. I also think that the present Government's "brinksmanship" approach is ineffective and highly risky of the nation's (and thus my own) prosperity. Therefore I will fight against it.
Heck, if a referendum voted for war with China over the troubles in Hong Kong, would the government be bound to respect it, given the certainty of defeat and destruction? Or ought they to take a more measured and sensible approach? | |
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| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 12:20 - Sep 5 with 2601 views | midastouch |
| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 12:06 - Sep 5 by BlueNomad |
"That's the way the cookie crumbles" always implies to me that it is something where you can mutter, shrug and carry on. The way we are heading is more serious than that and, as I am in my 60's, something that may well have a detrimental effect on this country for the rest of my life. |
If you feel that strongly and you don't respect the existing democratic process (or will of the people of Ipswich) then please feel free to revolt. That's entirely up to you. There are plenty of other protestors outside Parliament every day from both sides, if you feel that strongly why not go and join them? I realise that wouldn't be practical for most and it might be better to simply march on a designated day. Whatever you think is best.
I guess the choice is simple, you can either take it on the chin or you can march. As I said, it really depends just how strongly you feel about it. If all of the TWTD Remain contingent joined forces you could definitely bolster the front line as there's enough of you. :-)
Just to add, I entirely respect your opinion. I'm not looking to dig anybody out, each to their own. I was just simply pointing out the numbers of the referendum and how the process is meant to work. Whether you agree with that or not is for you to decide. | |
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| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 12:31 - Sep 5 with 2578 views | midastouch |
| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 12:07 - Sep 5 by Guthrum |
How many of that 58.3% wanted to leave without a deal or withdrawal agreement? Polls consistently show only a small proportion of those who voted Leave in 2016 want No Deal.
I voted Remain, am willing to put up with leaving in an orderly fashion (indeed lobbied my MP to vote for May's deal, which is more than most Brexiteers did), but am not prepared to accept a damaging leave-at-all-cost outcome, for which we are not prepared. I also think that the present Government's "brinksmanship" approach is ineffective and highly risky of the nation's (and thus my own) prosperity. Therefore I will fight against it.
Heck, if a referendum voted for war with China over the troubles in Hong Kong, would the government be bound to respect it, given the certainty of defeat and destruction? Or ought they to take a more measured and sensible approach? |
Fair play that you were willing to concede some ground. That's what's missing. Both sides need to concede some ground. That's the problem with a so-called second Peoples' Vote. If that then goes the way of Remain then a lot of the people that voted to leave the first time will then feel mightily aggrieved and so the bitter divisions will remain forever more. The problem is people seem to be getting even more entrenched rather than being prepared to look for some honourable concessions and the latter approach is the least messy way out of this quagmire. It's going to take some grown up politics to sort this one out and sadly I don't see many grown up politicians in Parliament. They are squabbling like children and it's very unedifying. [Post edited 5 Sep 2019 12:33]
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| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 12:42 - Sep 5 with 2549 views | Guthrum |
| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 12:31 - Sep 5 by midastouch |
Fair play that you were willing to concede some ground. That's what's missing. Both sides need to concede some ground. That's the problem with a so-called second Peoples' Vote. If that then goes the way of Remain then a lot of the people that voted to leave the first time will then feel mightily aggrieved and so the bitter divisions will remain forever more. The problem is people seem to be getting even more entrenched rather than being prepared to look for some honourable concessions and the latter approach is the least messy way out of this quagmire. It's going to take some grown up politics to sort this one out and sadly I don't see many grown up politicians in Parliament. They are squabbling like children and it's very unedifying. [Post edited 5 Sep 2019 12:33]
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Indeed, as I have said before, the first thing which ought to have been done in 2016 was putting into place some cross-party body (a Commission, or even a National Government of some sort) to establish the criteria for Brexit and a unified negotiating position with which to go to the EU.
Had that been done - aiming for consensus, compromise and taking party politics out of the equation - I firmly believe we would have left with a reasonable deal by now. It might not have been perfect and those who would only accept a hard break with the EU (i.e. Farage) still making angry noises, but it would have been orderly and sensible.
Sadly, we lost that chance, wasted valuable time and are left with the present shambles. | |
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| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 12:50 - Sep 5 with 2537 views | midastouch |
| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 12:07 - Sep 5 by Guthrum |
How many of that 58.3% wanted to leave without a deal or withdrawal agreement? Polls consistently show only a small proportion of those who voted Leave in 2016 want No Deal.
I voted Remain, am willing to put up with leaving in an orderly fashion (indeed lobbied my MP to vote for May's deal, which is more than most Brexiteers did), but am not prepared to accept a damaging leave-at-all-cost outcome, for which we are not prepared. I also think that the present Government's "brinksmanship" approach is ineffective and highly risky of the nation's (and thus my own) prosperity. Therefore I will fight against it.
Heck, if a referendum voted for war with China over the troubles in Hong Kong, would the government be bound to respect it, given the certainty of defeat and destruction? Or ought they to take a more measured and sensible approach? |
https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-voters-favor-no-deal-brexit-over-jeremy-corby
Some even see a supposed no deal as better than Corbyn.
I actually find the term ‘No Deal’ Brexit rather curious. As far as I'm aware (and please correct me if I'm wrong as I don't pretend to be an expert in our existing trading arrangements) WTO is a type of deal which we currently use with the rest of the world.
I think to claim any expertise in this debate you would have to at least read the EU treaties and directives in detail to fully understand what we are partner to. I haven't done that so I can't claim to be a great expert in this arena. I did look at CAP in detail at university many years ago but I'm very rusty.
Have any of you looked at the treaties and directives in great detail? Not wanting to be condescending but unless you have grappled with those at length how can you be entirely sure what we are party to in order to determine if the EU is in our best interests or not? I think we are all missing key details and therefore we can't be entirely sure in our convictions and as such we're having to try and fill in the gaps as best we can via the media, and that is very problematic in itself. [Post edited 5 Sep 2019 12:53]
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| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 12:55 - Sep 5 with 2525 views | Herbivore |
| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 12:50 - Sep 5 by midastouch |
https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-voters-favor-no-deal-brexit-over-jeremy-corby
Some even see a supposed no deal as better than Corbyn.
I actually find the term ‘No Deal’ Brexit rather curious. As far as I'm aware (and please correct me if I'm wrong as I don't pretend to be an expert in our existing trading arrangements) WTO is a type of deal which we currently use with the rest of the world.
I think to claim any expertise in this debate you would have to at least read the EU treaties and directives in detail to fully understand what we are partner to. I haven't done that so I can't claim to be a great expert in this arena. I did look at CAP in detail at university many years ago but I'm very rusty.
Have any of you looked at the treaties and directives in great detail? Not wanting to be condescending but unless you have grappled with those at length how can you be entirely sure what we are party to in order to determine if the EU is in our best interests or not? I think we are all missing key details and therefore we can't be entirely sure in our convictions and as such we're having to try and fill in the gaps as best we can via the media, and that is very problematic in itself. [Post edited 5 Sep 2019 12:53]
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WTO isn't a type of deal really, no. WTO terms are what WTO members trade on when they don't have separate free trade deals. I believe only two countries trade solely on WTO terms. | |
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| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 12:59 - Sep 5 with 2517 views | midastouch |
| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 12:55 - Sep 5 by Herbivore |
WTO isn't a type of deal really, no. WTO terms are what WTO members trade on when they don't have separate free trade deals. I believe only two countries trade solely on WTO terms. |
Thanks. I just did a quick Google search as I'm not up on all these facts.
https://fullfact.org/europe/who-trades-eu-under-wto-rules/
That's the problem with all this complexity, it's hard to make a well informed decision without a great deal of will or time to study all the facts in full. Cheers | |
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| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 13:07 - Sep 5 with 2500 views | Guthrum |
| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 12:50 - Sep 5 by midastouch |
https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-voters-favor-no-deal-brexit-over-jeremy-corby
Some even see a supposed no deal as better than Corbyn.
I actually find the term ‘No Deal’ Brexit rather curious. As far as I'm aware (and please correct me if I'm wrong as I don't pretend to be an expert in our existing trading arrangements) WTO is a type of deal which we currently use with the rest of the world.
I think to claim any expertise in this debate you would have to at least read the EU treaties and directives in detail to fully understand what we are partner to. I haven't done that so I can't claim to be a great expert in this arena. I did look at CAP in detail at university many years ago but I'm very rusty.
Have any of you looked at the treaties and directives in great detail? Not wanting to be condescending but unless you have grappled with those at length how can you be entirely sure what we are party to in order to determine if the EU is in our best interests or not? I think we are all missing key details and therefore we can't be entirely sure in our convictions and as such we're having to try and fill in the gaps as best we can via the media, and that is very problematic in itself. [Post edited 5 Sep 2019 12:53]
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We don't currently trade with the rest of the world on WTO terms, but instead under a framework of deals and arrangements negotiated by the EU as a whole. Very few countries do use WTO alone. Especially not with their most significant trading partner.
Also, the WTO is an organisation with its own sets of rules and big players. For example, if offering reduced tariffs to one country, a member must offer them to all, except by special arrangement - which requires the agreement of countries like Russia and China (not necessarily friends of ours).
There's a vast amount of paperwork. It takes a lifetime of work to gain expertise in just one particular area. That's why we employ professional experts and civil servants to understand and summarise the rules. The trick is to listen to those experts, rather than coming up with wizard wheezes from reading just a few pages (e.g. the GATT Article 24 supposed get-out).
The Corbyn vs No Deal poll is a rather contrived choice, tells us more about attitudes to the Labour leader than about forms of Brexit. | |
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| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 13:09 - Sep 5 with 2490 views | Herbivore |
| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 12:59 - Sep 5 by midastouch |
Thanks. I just did a quick Google search as I'm not up on all these facts.
https://fullfact.org/europe/who-trades-eu-under-wto-rules/
That's the problem with all this complexity, it's hard to make a well informed decision without a great deal of will or time to study all the facts in full. Cheers |
Bear in mind that we lose almost all of the free trade deals the EU has in place when we leave too, so it's not just the EU we potentially revert to WTO terms with but dozens of other countries too. | |
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| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 13:21 - Sep 5 with 2477 views | midastouch |
| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 12:50 - Sep 5 by midastouch |
https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-voters-favor-no-deal-brexit-over-jeremy-corby
Some even see a supposed no deal as better than Corbyn.
I actually find the term ‘No Deal’ Brexit rather curious. As far as I'm aware (and please correct me if I'm wrong as I don't pretend to be an expert in our existing trading arrangements) WTO is a type of deal which we currently use with the rest of the world.
I think to claim any expertise in this debate you would have to at least read the EU treaties and directives in detail to fully understand what we are partner to. I haven't done that so I can't claim to be a great expert in this arena. I did look at CAP in detail at university many years ago but I'm very rusty.
Have any of you looked at the treaties and directives in great detail? Not wanting to be condescending but unless you have grappled with those at length how can you be entirely sure what we are party to in order to determine if the EU is in our best interests or not? I think we are all missing key details and therefore we can't be entirely sure in our convictions and as such we're having to try and fill in the gaps as best we can via the media, and that is very problematic in itself. [Post edited 5 Sep 2019 12:53]
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The point I'm making here is that to get a better idea of how great or not the EU is we need to dig into the primary sources (i.e. the actual treaties and directives) rather than relying on questionable secondary sources (i.e. relying on arguments from those who already have skin in the game one way or the other). As they always say, read the small print before you sign! 99% of us were guilty of failing to read the small print (and we can't really be blamed as we are mostly all very busy with work and family life etc.) before we signed at the Referendum so how can any of us be entirely sure we made the right choice?
I read CAP in detail at university and I can assure you (at least from what I could gather) that its terms appeared to benefit the French a lot more than it did us (I've got an essay gathering dust somewhere in the loft about it!). I'm very rusty but if I recall correctly De Gaulle refused to budge an inch with Macmillan over CAP which in part caused our initial negotiations to break down. Tony Benn argued that the CAP was effectively a "siege economy" designed to favour the French and harm Britain. I know that might all seem long ago but the point I'm making is they played hardball when we joined and I imagine some of our membership terms (not all of course) have been a lot more advantageous to them than it has us ever since.
Moreover, our EU contributions were meant to rise by 20% in one year in recent times which if true is very steep!
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/19/britains-contribution-eu-rises-2
These are the sorts of things we need to wrestle with in far greater detail I think in order to decide is it such a great club to be a member of or not? | |
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| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 13:21 - Sep 5 with 2473 views | Darth_Koont |
| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 22:42 - Sep 4 by Herbivore |
Spiked? Lol. |
Amidst all the mess, it's satisfying to see The Great White Hope of populist neoliberalism losing air while Spiked and its other cheerleaders try in vain to pump it back up.
Admittedly, it's got as far as them actually being in power but probably shows why we shouldn't be afraid of that. As with Farage and Brexiteers, it's when they get their way and have to put their words into action that they show themselves to be useless, incompetent and ultimately irrelevant.
The end result could be that they'll be marginalised for a generation. If so, the important thing to do will be to actually address the legitimate dissatisfaction and disenfranchisement they were exploiting. |  |
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| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 13:26 - Sep 5 with 2462 views | midastouch |
| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 13:07 - Sep 5 by Guthrum |
We don't currently trade with the rest of the world on WTO terms, but instead under a framework of deals and arrangements negotiated by the EU as a whole. Very few countries do use WTO alone. Especially not with their most significant trading partner.
Also, the WTO is an organisation with its own sets of rules and big players. For example, if offering reduced tariffs to one country, a member must offer them to all, except by special arrangement - which requires the agreement of countries like Russia and China (not necessarily friends of ours).
There's a vast amount of paperwork. It takes a lifetime of work to gain expertise in just one particular area. That's why we employ professional experts and civil servants to understand and summarise the rules. The trick is to listen to those experts, rather than coming up with wizard wheezes from reading just a few pages (e.g. the GATT Article 24 supposed get-out).
The Corbyn vs No Deal poll is a rather contrived choice, tells us more about attitudes to the Labour leader than about forms of Brexit. |
Some good points cheers. One thing about Civil Servants. Call me cynical but don't you think there is a good argument that plenty of them would much rather remain as to do so means a hell of a lot less work and stress rather than having to rewrite and bring our own rules etc. up to date again? They've been able to delegate a lot of stuff to the EU which if we leave they will have to deal with again. It's a bit like Turkeys voting for Christmas.
Just a thought. [Post edited 5 Sep 2019 13:30]
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| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 13:32 - Sep 5 with 2444 views | Herbivore |
| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 13:26 - Sep 5 by midastouch |
Some good points cheers. One thing about Civil Servants. Call me cynical but don't you think there is a good argument that plenty of them would much rather remain as to do so means a hell of a lot less work and stress rather than having to rewrite and bring our own rules etc. up to date again? They've been able to delegate a lot of stuff to the EU which if we leave they will have to deal with again. It's a bit like Turkeys voting for Christmas.
Just a thought. [Post edited 5 Sep 2019 13:30]
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It won't be existing civil servants taking on extra responsibilities, we will need entirely new departments to take on functions currently covered by the EU and that will come at great extra cost. | |
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| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 13:41 - Sep 5 with 2430 views | midastouch |
| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 13:32 - Sep 5 by Herbivore |
It won't be existing civil servants taking on extra responsibilities, we will need entirely new departments to take on functions currently covered by the EU and that will come at great extra cost. |
One way or another it will still mean more work as they will have to at least recruit and interview (that's a job in itself!) and help the new people settle. If we take back control - I hate that saying - (which you could argue Parliament took back control from 17.4 million people last night lol!) then it's going to be a lot more work for the Civil Servants. Most people are resistant to change at work, especially massive change. So I would argue that a lot of Civil Servants see Brexit (regardless of their political ideology) as a total nightmare from a workload perspective.
Some good debate on here today. I've learned a few things from you guys and girls cheers. We're all doing our best to try and keep up to speed as best we can on a fast developing and seismic shift in the politics of the country. It's not so easy keeping up. Even one of the architects of this mess JRM has run out steam having a kip in the Commons! :-) | |
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| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 13:45 - Sep 5 with 2413 views | Herbivore |
| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 13:41 - Sep 5 by midastouch |
One way or another it will still mean more work as they will have to at least recruit and interview (that's a job in itself!) and help the new people settle. If we take back control - I hate that saying - (which you could argue Parliament took back control from 17.4 million people last night lol!) then it's going to be a lot more work for the Civil Servants. Most people are resistant to change at work, especially massive change. So I would argue that a lot of Civil Servants see Brexit (regardless of their political ideology) as a total nightmare from a workload perspective.
Some good debate on here today. I've learned a few things from you guys and girls cheers. We're all doing our best to try and keep up to speed as best we can on a fast developing and seismic shift in the politics of the country. It's not so easy keeping up. Even one of the architects of this mess JRM has run out steam having a kip in the Commons! :-) |
I think it's a hell of a stretch to say that civil servants are against Brexit because it will mean expanding the civil service. I tend to go with the simplest explanation, which is that most of them are against leaving because it's a terrible idea. | |
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