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Pathetic stuff from some members of the French parliament on 10:03 - Jul 27 by StokieBlue
I have no idea of the figure but it's likely something up at that level yes.
The reason for that, as per Dan's post, is there is no debate to be had on whether it's happened and whether it's caused by humans.
The science speaks for itself. Unfortunately that's not enough for some people.
SB
I am fairly sure that those scientists would accept there are other cyclical/wave climatalogical factors alongside which the human factor exists and consequently makes that impact lesser/greater.
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Pathetic stuff from some members of the French parliament on 10:30 - Jul 27 by jeera
Lectured by children.
For one, who gives a crap who or where the message comes from?
Secondly, if that what it takes, then again, who cares?
Indeed.
And ironic that people can attack her credentials but she's only there because they've already ignored the credentials of the experts. And without admitting their own lack of credentials and motivations for doing so.
It's delusional and dishonest.
Pronouns: He/Him
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Pathetic stuff from some members of the French parliament on 10:41 - Jul 27 with 4045 views
Pathetic stuff from some members of the French parliament on 10:31 - Jul 27 by DanTheMan
Sorry if I misinterpreted, it is just phrases like the one you used (climate has always changed) are incredibly common but are a misunderstanding of what the data shows.
For sure deforestation has had a large impact. A quick look suggests that in 2009 it was estimated at 18% (although this includes what the land is commonly used for after).
As for Greta, people find it easier to listen to a figurehead than they do scientists. Scientists have been banging this drum for decades to no substantial effect except for countries promising to fix it in three decades... maybe.
[Post edited 27 Jul 2019 10:32]
Thanks I think there has been a lot of misinterpretting in this thread I was merely alluding to the wave patterns that occur throughout climatology.
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Pathetic stuff from some members of the French parliament on 10:36 - Jul 27 by footers
1) People are debating whether man-made global warming is real? Ffs. The state of that.
2) It's global warming, not climate change. Look at the political/corporate interests who lobbied to create this purposeful terminology.
Global warming and climate change are two different but related things, and both are valid terms. Global warming just relating to the temperature changes, climate change being that and also any other effects like the recent heat waves.
I know about the Luntz memo btw, just that he was just thought you could swap the terms but that's just incorrect.
Pathetic stuff from some members of the French parliament on 10:38 - Jul 27 by BanksterDebtSlave
I am fairly sure that those scientists would accept there are other cyclical/wave climatalogical factors alongside which the human factor exists and consequently makes that impact lesser/greater.
No they wouldn't.
That's an obfuscation of the issue. Historically there were cycles and there will be again but that isn't really the case this time and is disingenuous to push it as part of the issue.
These are classic denier arguments.
SB
[Post edited 27 Jul 2019 10:47]
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Pathetic stuff from some members of the French parliament on 10:48 - Jul 27 with 3991 views
Pathetic stuff from some members of the French parliament on 10:45 - Jul 27 by BanksterDebtSlave
The problem being that this is all about story telling and 'spectacle' and feeling better about ourselves while still nothing actually changes!
What? By design?
You're actually defending and using the arguments of people who ARE intent on us doing nothing, often to protect fossil fuel company profits and/or their ideology of rampant capitalist growth.
There's the "storytelling". And Greta Thunberg is not their latest double-bluff weapon.
Pathetic stuff from some members of the French parliament on 10:41 - Jul 27 by BanksterDebtSlave
Thanks I think there has been a lot of misinterpretting in this thread I was merely alluding to the wave patterns that occur throughout climatology.
That's fair.
I would point out though that there is no natural long term wave that causes heating -> cooling -> heating. At least that we know of, again there is a small chance something will come along that shows there is but it is a very small chance.
There is always something driving the changes measured, whether global or regional.
Decent 5 minute explanation of why some of the other drivers can be ruled out here:
Pathetic stuff from some members of the French parliament on 10:41 - Jul 27 by DanTheMan
Global warming and climate change are two different but related things, and both are valid terms. Global warming just relating to the temperature changes, climate change being that and also any other effects like the recent heat waves.
I know about the Luntz memo btw, just that he was just thought you could swap the terms but that's just incorrect.
Hmm, interesting. Hadn't seen that before, buh! All the way back to the 50s eh?
Still, I'm happier with using the term man-made global warming than I am climate change in general chinwaggery, just to cut out the plausible deniability!
Dear old footers KC - Private Counsel to Big Farmer - Liberator of Vichy TWTD
Pathetic stuff from some members of the French parliament on 10:46 - Jul 27 by StokieBlue
No they wouldn't.
That's an obfuscation of the issue. Historically there were cycles and there will be again but that isn't really the case this time and is disingenuous to push it as part of the issue.
These are classic denier arguments.
SB
[Post edited 27 Jul 2019 10:47]
I think we may be talking about different things....if you are referring to variations above and beyond the mean recurring cyclical/wave patterns then we agree!
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Pathetic stuff from some members of the French parliament on 10:52 - Jul 27 by footers
Hmm, interesting. Hadn't seen that before, buh! All the way back to the 50s eh?
Still, I'm happier with using the term man-made global warming than I am climate change in general chinwaggery, just to cut out the plausible deniability!
A really quick way of looking this up is using Google's Ngram viewer. It's not entirely accurate but gives a decent "broad picture".
Pathetic stuff from some members of the French parliament on 11:17 - Jul 26 by caught-in-limbo
Thanks for your measured reply to my really nasty comment.
"I actually think if that's what you think, you're way too optimistic. The majority of capitalists don't care if half the world become uninhabitable, if anything it's climate change that will make us all easier to dominate."
I don't completely agree with "the science" we are fed by our media channels or with the idea that the debate is over. Closing the debate in this way is just too totalitarian for my liking.
I am a socialist-sympathising environmentalist at heart and live in a very eco-friendly way. I think Global warming -> Climate change (lol) is being used as a pro-globalist agenda (as you suggest).
Check out the work of Cory Morningstar for more on this theme.
Also, have a look at this. It's non-dramatic research produced by Scandinavian scientists looking at actual data rather than climate projection models. The debate certainly isn't over:
Pathetic stuff from some members of the French parliament on 10:52 - Jul 27 by footers
Hmm, interesting. Hadn't seen that before, buh! All the way back to the 50s eh?
Still, I'm happier with using the term man-made global warming than I am climate change in general chinwaggery, just to cut out the plausible deniability!
It was actually being speculated about as far back as the 1890's by people like Arvid Högbom who noted that eventually industrial emissions could have the same affect as prolonged volcanism.
SB
Avatar - M51 - The Whirlpool Galaxy - Taken on 29th April 2024
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Pathetic stuff from some members of the French parliament on 11:00 - Jul 27 with 3955 views
Pathetic stuff from some members of the French parliament on 10:58 - Jul 27 by gordon
That looks brilliant - a 50 page report on Climate Change with 6 references, only 2 references from the last 8 years.
Aren't you interested in who funds the GWPF, or do you only get animated by that kind of stuff when it's convenient to your point of view?
No she isn't because she still hasn't had the decency to address the point I made on this exact hypocrisy even though she made me post the point twice.
SB
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Pathetic stuff from some members of the French parliament on 11:01 - Jul 27 with 3950 views
Pathetic stuff from some members of the French parliament on 10:59 - Jul 27 by StokieBlue
It was actually being speculated about as far back as the 1890's by people like Arvid Högbom who noted that eventually industrial emissions could have the same affect as prolonged volcanism.
SB
I was just talking about the specific term 'climate change', Stokers. Thought it had been invented by commission sometime in the 80s/90s by certain vested interests but Dan is indeed the man and proved me wrong!
But glad to see some bright sparks were on the ball early doors. Shame no one listened.
Dear old footers KC - Private Counsel to Big Farmer - Liberator of Vichy TWTD
Pathetic stuff from some members of the French parliament on 10:50 - Jul 27 by Darth_Koont
What? By design?
You're actually defending and using the arguments of people who ARE intent on us doing nothing, often to protect fossil fuel company profits and/or their ideology of rampant capitalist growth.
There's the "storytelling". And Greta Thunberg is not their latest double-bluff weapon.
What? By design?Â
You're actually defending and using the arguments of people who ARE intent on us doing nothing, often to protect fossil fuel company profits and/or their ideology of rampant capitalist growth.Â
"George Soros behind Greta Thunberg" "So who is then this young idealist? Greta Thunberg is now 16-years old and the daughter of famous opera singer and left-liberal activist Marlena Ernman, who in the background has helped her daughter get started. Thunberg soon also got her own coach — a well known climate activist from Germany by the name Luisa-Marie Neubauer. How big is the likelyhood that a young girl who starts a school strike outside the Swedish parliament can get schoolchildren from all over the world to join her cause and fight for the climate? How often does 16 year olds have their own coaches?
"Luisa-Marie Neubauer, who has figured on a large amount of images and movies together with Greta when they jointly run climate strikes all over the world, belongs to the organization ”one foundation” which has several well-known wealthy financiers, including Bono, Bill and Melissa Gates. An even more striking name is the multi-billionaire oligarch George Soros, world famous for his currency speculation and maybe even more well-known as the father of the global, radical, and left-liberal lobby and activist network “Open Society”, supporting thousands of NGO:s.
Behind every world famous 16 year old climate activist there is a liberal oligarch and a globalist movement."
It's my view that Greta is being used by her wealthy parents and globalist backers to heighten emotional investment in a pro-globalist cause.
If you're in any doubt about that, these are the words of Board of Director member David JP Phillips, We Don’t Have Time Greta's original main sponsor, in his book “The Magical Science of Storytelling”:
“How is it possible for you to be so easily tricked by something so simple as a story, because you are tricked? Well, it all comes down to one core thing and that is emotional investment. The more emotionally invested you are in anything in your life, the less critical and the less objectively observant you become.”
Using minors in this way is actually child abuse.
With regards to the actions of certain French parliamentarians, don't get your knickers in a twist over it. It's all theatre and the French centre right party are in on it too.
But I think you know that and that's possibly why this forum is subjected to your almost daily, pro-globalist, news story links.
Let the capitalist globalists reveal themselves by downvoting this post.
Jesus wept. I hope someone grabs you by the ankles and pulls you out of the rabbit hole soon, dear.
Pathetic stuff from some members of the French parliament on 10:45 - Jul 27 by BanksterDebtSlave
The problem being that this is all about story telling and 'spectacle' and feeling better about ourselves while still nothing actually changes!
I do agree that there is an element of 'spectacle' and 'event-tourism' around Greta Thunberg, but the woman herself seems to me to be utterly sincere, focused, and frustrated by the hype on both sides of the issue.
If, for every ten people who go along for the ride, she inspires just one young person to make a real difference now or a few years down the line, for me she's one of the most important and effective leaders on the planet.
As many have said, despite overwhelming evidence of the staggering threat the Earth and most of its species (including humans) face, none of the more mature establishments have been able to achieve anything like the kind of changes which are almost certainly needed, and fast.
Most of us, even ardent 'believers' are STILL not taking nearly enough selfless, effective action, and I include myself firmly in that group.
Its so easy, perhaps even more so these days, to derail a constructive discussion by focusing on the bits that annoy us, rather than on the core of the issue itself.
# WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE #
Pathetic stuff from some members of the French parliament on 11:07 - Jul 27 by BanksterDebtSlave
What? By design?Â
You're actually defending and using the arguments of people who ARE intent on us doing nothing, often to protect fossil fuel company profits and/or their ideology of rampant capitalist growth.Â
No, it's not me just saying it. I suggest you actually read up on the Climate Change deniers and their lobby.
Here's just a snippet from wikipedia and all of this is in the public domain:
"Organised campaigning to undermine public trust in climate science is associated with conservative economic policies and backed by industrial interests opposed to the regulation of CO2 emissions. Climate change denial has been associated with the fossil fuels lobby, the Koch brothers, industry advocates and conservative think tanks, often in the United States.More than 90% of papers sceptical on climate change originate from right-wing think tanks."
[Post edited 27 Jul 2019 11:13]
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Pathetic stuff from some members of the French parliament on 11:20 - Jul 27 with 3898 views
Pathetic stuff from some members of the French parliament on 11:10 - Jul 27 by NthQldITFC
I do agree that there is an element of 'spectacle' and 'event-tourism' around Greta Thunberg, but the woman herself seems to me to be utterly sincere, focused, and frustrated by the hype on both sides of the issue.
If, for every ten people who go along for the ride, she inspires just one young person to make a real difference now or a few years down the line, for me she's one of the most important and effective leaders on the planet.
As many have said, despite overwhelming evidence of the staggering threat the Earth and most of its species (including humans) face, none of the more mature establishments have been able to achieve anything like the kind of changes which are almost certainly needed, and fast.
Most of us, even ardent 'believers' are STILL not taking nearly enough selfless, effective action, and I include myself firmly in that group.
Its so easy, perhaps even more so these days, to derail a constructive discussion by focusing on the bits that annoy us, rather than on the core of the issue itself.
Agreed(not so sure about the most important, effective leader bit to be honest though)....as with the Extinction Rebellion movement though I do think Greta's story raises similar questions about (comfortable) class issues and how the whole debate/actual actions can be expanded to include the less comfortable.
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Pathetic stuff from some members of the French parliament on 10:25 - Jul 27 by BanksterDebtSlave
As you say yourself the debate is "fairly settled" so let the debate play out....people saying we are right while sticking their fingers in their ears doesn't generally pan out well. By the way I would not subscribe to any of those 'tropes' and personally have no doubt that humanity is the problem. My actual interest in the thread was more about the recent trend to being lectured to by children and the further dumbing down of us as a society to buckets of emotive mush!
"Â There is no other driver beyond the incredibly simple explanation that us pumping greenhouse gases into the sea and atmosphere." Just to add the other human angle of deforestation affecting the balance of the equation from the other end as it were.
"My actual interest in the thread was more about the recent trend to being lectured to by children and the further dumbing down of us as a society to buckets of emotive mush!"
So your sole objection to this youngster, who is seen as inspiring by millions of other people of all ages, but mostly other youngsters, across the planet, is her "style"?!
Jeez, does it really have to be pointed out to you that those young people are the ones who will have to bail humankind out if our species is to survive? One good thing about the digital media age is that her message is reaching all parts of the world, incl India, Russia, China etc where it most needs to be seen & taken up by their young people if humans are ever to turn things around.
You should be thanking and applauding her, not bashing her for a "style" that you personally dislike.
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