| Bolton Wanderers up for sale for £30 million. What price for Ipswich? 13:07 - Nov 30 with 11834 views | marcus1642 |
Just a bit of conjecture on my behalf. I would say about the same really. |  | | |  |
| Bolton Wanderers up for sale for £30 million. What price for Ipswich? on 16:06 - Nov 30 with 3151 views | PhilTWTD |
| Bolton Wanderers up for sale for £30 million. What price for Ipswich? on 16:04 - Nov 30 by ArnieM |
Does anyone know how much debt Bolton has attached to it? The last I’d heard a few seasons ago, was something ridiculous like £180m . Don’t know how true this is, or if it’s still the case. |
The previous owner wrote off those debts to him: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/34908977 |  | | |
| Bolton Wanderers up for sale for £30 million. What price for Ipswich? on 22:26 - Nov 30 with 3069 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Bolton Wanderers up for sale for £30 million. What price for Ipswich? on 13:49 - Nov 30 by PhilTWTD |
Town do own the stadium, which as you say has a value, £10 million if I remember from a previous set of accounts, only the land is leased. Agree re training ground. |
Doesn’t he only own part of the training ground, not all of it? The sale was for a bit of unused land, not the main Playford Road site? |  | | |
| Bolton Wanderers up for sale for £30 million. What price for Ipswich? on 22:36 - Nov 30 with 3063 views | soclopath |
| Bolton Wanderers up for sale for £30 million. What price for Ipswich? on 13:59 - Nov 30 by King_ding_a_lin_g |
Surely it's not got a market value though? Even if we do own the stadium, we couldn't sell it on it's own? |
There would be a profit in the SBR and Sir Alf stands when the club went pop the contractors never got paid up. |  | | |
| Bolton Wanderers up for sale for £30 million. What price for Ipswich? on 22:36 - Nov 30 with 3062 views | PhilTWTD |
| Bolton Wanderers up for sale for £30 million. What price for Ipswich? on 22:26 - Nov 30 by ElderGrizzly |
Doesn’t he only own part of the training ground, not all of it? The sale was for a bit of unused land, not the main Playford Road site? |
I think it's part of it rather than all of it but I don't think any of it isn't used. It's one half of it but I can't remember which off the top of my head. | | | |
| Bolton Wanderers up for sale for £30 million. What price for Ipswich? on 22:43 - Nov 30 with 3056 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
I haven't trawled through all the points made so I may have missed something, but isn't one of the biggest assets a place in the Championship. Of course, this is rapidly appearing to be valued at a place in League 1 instead. If an owner wishes to own a football club a=of a certain stature, the easiest way is to buy one already there. So Man City etc have a very high value. Those at the bottom of the Prem less so. Those at the top of the Championship less so again and so on. There is a guaranteed level of income associated with the level at which a club is competing. |  |
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| Bolton Wanderers up for sale for £30 million. What price for Ipswich? on 00:04 - Dec 1 with 3015 views | HARRY10 |
| Bolton Wanderers up for sale for £30 million. What price for Ipswich? on 13:19 - Nov 30 by clive_baker |
"no assets". Care to elaborate? |
or what assets would you claim ?
there isn't really any and we have a £90m debt | | | |
| Bolton Wanderers up for sale for £30 million. What price for Ipswich? on 10:25 - Dec 1 with 2949 views | Coastalblue |
| Bolton Wanderers up for sale for £30 million. What price for Ipswich? on 00:04 - Dec 1 by HARRY10 |
or what assets would you claim ?
there isn't really any and we have a £90m debt |
The debt isn't fixed though is it?
We don't owe the banks £90M, we're just a minus on the balance sheet of a much larger organisation so that can be adjusted in lots of ways unlike if it were external debt. |  |
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| Bolton Wanderers up for sale for £30 million. What price for Ipswich? on 10:52 - Dec 1 with 2937 views | Radlett_blue |
| Bolton Wanderers up for sale for £30 million. What price for Ipswich? on 00:04 - Dec 1 by HARRY10 |
or what assets would you claim ?
there isn't really any and we have a £90m debt |
Please stop worrying about the debt. It's owed to Marcus Evans or one of his companies.
If Evans decides he no longer wants to fund Town's annual operating losses, he has 2 choices.
1. Put Town into admin, whereby he will recoup virtually nothing.
2. Write off the debt & sell Town to the highest bidder, who will pay him £20m or so.
Which option do you think he will choose? |  |
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| Bolton Wanderers up for sale for £30 million. What price for Ipswich? on 12:21 - Dec 1 with 2920 views | clive_baker |
| Bolton Wanderers up for sale for £30 million. What price for Ipswich? on 00:04 - Dec 1 by HARRY10 |
or what assets would you claim ?
there isn't really any and we have a £90m debt |
The debt is a moot point as this is 100% inter company and will likely be written off at the point of disposal, so the new owner would acquire the club free of debts.
As for assets, the intangible assets are clearly of some value, hence the club not being worthless. Essentially, the difference between the market value of the club (lets assume ME thinks that's £30m) and the net book value of the tangible assets (the lawnmower, the computers in the ticket office, the stadium itself) etc, less liabilities (people we owe money to etc) is the value that ME is placing on the intangible assets, which will include players such as Dozzell who clearly have a value, albeit hard to quantify, also future potential incomes from players like Cresswell and those sell on agreements in place etc. Then there's a value on what's known as goodwill, which is essentially the brand, the league status as others have mentioned, the fact that we're 1 promotion from the promised land of the Premier League etc. For example Coca-Cola, if you broke up the business and sold off all it's assets, the factory, the stock etc. that's not going to get anything close to realising what Coke would actually be sold for. There's enormous value in their brand, their intellectual property, logo etc. The fact they can stick a new product in a tin on a shelf and people will buy it tomorrow. It's the same for us, Ipswich Town is worth more than Ipswich Wanderers even if we didn't own a tangible asset, because we are where we are in the industry with the reputation and status etc.
FWIW £30m probably is in the right ball park I would think. It'll take someone with very deep pockets to buy ME out, that £30m is loose change really, it's the ongoing investment to make us competitive that would be the bigger consideration. |  |
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| Bolton Wanderers up for sale for £30 million. What price for Ipswich? on 13:01 - Dec 1 with 2886 views | BanburyBlue |
| Bolton Wanderers up for sale for £30 million. What price for Ipswich? on 13:31 - Nov 30 by Marshalls_Mullet |
The ground / stadium does have an asset value.
We have it on a long lease, and pay a relatively low ground rent.
I also suspect that any deal would include buying the training ground from ME. [Post edited 30 Nov 2018 13:32]
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Is it a fully repairing lease ? |  |
| Banbury Blue Back in Town |
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| Bolton Wanderers up for sale for £30 million. What price for Ipswich? on 13:22 - Dec 1 with 2873 views | Radlett_blue |
| Bolton Wanderers up for sale for £30 million. What price for Ipswich? on 12:21 - Dec 1 by clive_baker |
The debt is a moot point as this is 100% inter company and will likely be written off at the point of disposal, so the new owner would acquire the club free of debts.
As for assets, the intangible assets are clearly of some value, hence the club not being worthless. Essentially, the difference between the market value of the club (lets assume ME thinks that's £30m) and the net book value of the tangible assets (the lawnmower, the computers in the ticket office, the stadium itself) etc, less liabilities (people we owe money to etc) is the value that ME is placing on the intangible assets, which will include players such as Dozzell who clearly have a value, albeit hard to quantify, also future potential incomes from players like Cresswell and those sell on agreements in place etc. Then there's a value on what's known as goodwill, which is essentially the brand, the league status as others have mentioned, the fact that we're 1 promotion from the promised land of the Premier League etc. For example Coca-Cola, if you broke up the business and sold off all it's assets, the factory, the stock etc. that's not going to get anything close to realising what Coke would actually be sold for. There's enormous value in their brand, their intellectual property, logo etc. The fact they can stick a new product in a tin on a shelf and people will buy it tomorrow. It's the same for us, Ipswich Town is worth more than Ipswich Wanderers even if we didn't own a tangible asset, because we are where we are in the industry with the reputation and status etc.
FWIW £30m probably is in the right ball park I would think. It'll take someone with very deep pockets to buy ME out, that £30m is loose change really, it's the ongoing investment to make us competitive that would be the bigger consideration. |
Though of course Evans probably wouldn't care if a potential new owner had the means to fund Town's ongoing losses. He would probably only be interested in recovering as much of his investment as possible. | |
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| Bolton Wanderers up for sale for £30 million. What price for Ipswich? on 13:31 - Dec 1 with 2868 views | NSL |
| Bolton Wanderers up for sale for £30 million. What price for Ipswich? on 13:38 - Nov 30 by monytowbray |
Quite. Plus the only time the land or a stadium a football club owns is going going to be considered as a sellable asset is the point the club's up sh1t creek. Owners buy clubs for football money, not land money in the event everything goes wrong. |
Untrue, there are many instances where hallowed turf has been turned into blocks of flats. The fact the ground isn’t in private ownership is a good thing. | |
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| Bolton Wanderers up for sale for £30 million. What price for Ipswich? on 14:50 - Dec 1 with 2830 views | stewartm |
ITFC would have to be sold for at least the value of the debt (or new owner agrees to service the debt) which in principle is the same but more expensive. |  |
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| Bolton Wanderers up for sale for £30 million. What price for Ipswich? on 14:51 - Dec 1 with 2829 views | stewartm |
| Bolton Wanderers up for sale for £30 million. What price for Ipswich? on 12:21 - Dec 1 by clive_baker |
The debt is a moot point as this is 100% inter company and will likely be written off at the point of disposal, so the new owner would acquire the club free of debts.
As for assets, the intangible assets are clearly of some value, hence the club not being worthless. Essentially, the difference between the market value of the club (lets assume ME thinks that's £30m) and the net book value of the tangible assets (the lawnmower, the computers in the ticket office, the stadium itself) etc, less liabilities (people we owe money to etc) is the value that ME is placing on the intangible assets, which will include players such as Dozzell who clearly have a value, albeit hard to quantify, also future potential incomes from players like Cresswell and those sell on agreements in place etc. Then there's a value on what's known as goodwill, which is essentially the brand, the league status as others have mentioned, the fact that we're 1 promotion from the promised land of the Premier League etc. For example Coca-Cola, if you broke up the business and sold off all it's assets, the factory, the stock etc. that's not going to get anything close to realising what Coke would actually be sold for. There's enormous value in their brand, their intellectual property, logo etc. The fact they can stick a new product in a tin on a shelf and people will buy it tomorrow. It's the same for us, Ipswich Town is worth more than Ipswich Wanderers even if we didn't own a tangible asset, because we are where we are in the industry with the reputation and status etc.
FWIW £30m probably is in the right ball park I would think. It'll take someone with very deep pockets to buy ME out, that £30m is loose change really, it's the ongoing investment to make us competitive that would be the bigger consideration. |
'The debt is a moot point as this is 100% inter company and will likely be written off at the point of disposal, so the new owner would acquire the club free of debts'
You are kidding right? | |
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| Bolton Wanderers up for sale for £30 million. What price for Ipswich? on 15:27 - Dec 1 with 2807 views | Radlett_blue |
| Bolton Wanderers up for sale for £30 million. What price for Ipswich? on 14:51 - Dec 1 by stewartm |
'The debt is a moot point as this is 100% inter company and will likely be written off at the point of disposal, so the new owner would acquire the club free of debts'
You are kidding right? |
Not at all. The debt is all owed to Marcus Evans (or his companies). Town have no means of repaying him so if Evans won't get it back. Putting town into administration or receivership won't get him much either as Town have few tangible assets.
So, if Evans wants out, he needs to write off the debt & then he can get £20m or so for Town. | |
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| Bolton Wanderers up for sale for £30 million. What price for Ipswich? on 15:30 - Dec 1 with 2800 views | stewartm |
| Bolton Wanderers up for sale for £30 million. What price for Ipswich? on 15:27 - Dec 1 by Radlett_blue |
Not at all. The debt is all owed to Marcus Evans (or his companies). Town have no means of repaying him so if Evans won't get it back. Putting town into administration or receivership won't get him much either as Town have few tangible assets.
So, if Evans wants out, he needs to write off the debt & then he can get £20m or so for Town. |
If you really think ME would write off £90 million plus you must be a very polite pleasant person who thinks every one else is the same. He would only write off the debt if through the years he has made £90 million in interests/loan charges but the debt was still there.
ps- I would not have you as a financial adviser... | |
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| Bolton Wanderers up for sale for £30 million. What price for Ipswich? on 15:49 - Dec 1 with 2776 views | Radlett_blue |
| Bolton Wanderers up for sale for £30 million. What price for Ipswich? on 15:30 - Dec 1 by stewartm |
If you really think ME would write off £90 million plus you must be a very polite pleasant person who thinks every one else is the same. He would only write off the debt if through the years he has made £90 million in interests/loan charges but the debt was still there.
ps- I would not have you as a financial adviser... |
So, what do you think Evan's options are for recouping his £90m?
Town operate at a loss.
Do you simply not understand how most football clubs operate - funded by their owners? | |
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| Bolton Wanderers up for sale for £30 million. What price for Ipswich? on 16:03 - Dec 6 with 2668 views | marcus1642 |
It would appear that Town is worth £35 million according to some reports. No smoke without fire. | | | |
| Bolton Wanderers up for sale for £30 million. What price for Ipswich? on 18:19 - Dec 6 with 2630 views | Bent_double |
| Bolton Wanderers up for sale for £30 million. What price for Ipswich? on 15:30 - Dec 1 by stewartm |
If you really think ME would write off £90 million plus you must be a very polite pleasant person who thinks every one else is the same. He would only write off the debt if through the years he has made £90 million in interests/loan charges but the debt was still there.
ps- I would not have you as a financial adviser... |
ME has spent the money on his 'hobby' over the past 11 years, how do you think he can force a buyer to include the £90m+ in the purchase price?
Simple answer, he can't, that money has gone, get over it. |  |
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