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80% of UK growth from Immigration on 14:04 - Aug 24 by eireblue
Does racism have a good definition?
I think you have mentioned it is the target of the racism that should define if a comment is racist, offensive etc.
Someone may find something offensive, humorous, or the language suitable loose, to be racist.
I once used the term "Brits" and was taken to task by a poster. I apologised and edited my post. The B word has been used by others, but said poster must have missed those. Maybe I should be offended, since other people can use the B word, and as was pointed out in this instance, I was a person of Irishness using the B word. Hmmm..
Anyhoo back to the main topic, If someone falls foul of a recipients view on what is acceptable, does that necessarily make the perpetrator racist or his comment racist, or a even a third party that thinks the original comment is okay, racist?
Should that question be a simple yes or no answer?
[Post edited 24 Aug 2018 14:07]
"Anyhoo back to the main topic, If someone falls foul of a recipients view on what is acceptable, does that necessarily make the perpetrator racist or his comment racist, or a even a third party that thinks the original comment is okay, racist?"
If it's Corbyn, it must be racist/anti-semitic/anti British/ terrorist supporting. It's just the way it is. He's the devil in beige chinos.
80% of UK growth from Immigration on 14:20 - Aug 24 by GlasgowBlue
I'm only 40 -0 down if there is no problem with antisemitism in the Labour party, Jezza hasn't shared a platform with terrorists and lied about attending events organised by a self proclaimed Holocaust denier.
The part I don't understand is... what has TWTD got to do with any of that? What's your end game here?
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
80% of UK growth from Immigration on 13:52 - Aug 24 by GlasgowBlue
Well he only thing that could help him is if the individuals came forward and it turned out that they weren’t Jewish after all and that Mr Corbyn knew that.
edit. But we know he isn't talking about anyone who is indigenous as he clearly states "and secondly, having lived in this country for a very long time, probably all their lives"
[Post edited 24 Aug 2018 14:03]
Using quotes devoid of context isn't often a good way to go, Glassers. It's easy to manipulate things to make them look how you want them to look. On the very last page I was shocked to see you using the following words, quoted verbatim here:
"....the Jewish community has an ulterior motive for highlighting the instances of anti semitism within the labour party and it's leadership". Z It's quite shocking to see you using exactly the kind of anti-Semitic tropes that you claim to rail against. Or maybe I just ignored the question mark at the end and the opening part of the question to demonstrate how easy it is to accuse someone of something if you don't bother with context and select snippets of quotes to back yourself up.
Out of interest, given that this happened 5 years ago in a room full of Jewish people and you are claiming that the words used were unequivocally anti-Semitic, how do you account for the fact that nobody made a complaint against Cornyn at the time and why has this story only come out now?
80% of UK growth from Immigration on 14:32 - Aug 24 by Herbivore
Using quotes devoid of context isn't often a good way to go, Glassers. It's easy to manipulate things to make them look how you want them to look. On the very last page I was shocked to see you using the following words, quoted verbatim here:
"....the Jewish community has an ulterior motive for highlighting the instances of anti semitism within the labour party and it's leadership". Z It's quite shocking to see you using exactly the kind of anti-Semitic tropes that you claim to rail against. Or maybe I just ignored the question mark at the end and the opening part of the question to demonstrate how easy it is to accuse someone of something if you don't bother with context and select snippets of quotes to back yourself up.
Out of interest, given that this happened 5 years ago in a room full of Jewish people and you are claiming that the words used were unequivocally anti-Semitic, how do you account for the fact that nobody made a complaint against Cornyn at the time and why has this story only come out now?
[Post edited 24 Aug 2018 14:34]
I've made the same (last) point but he appears to have gone off to play tennis. Apart from the other times when he replies.
80% of UK growth from Immigration on 14:25 - Aug 24 by noggin
"Anyhoo back to the main topic, If someone falls foul of a recipients view on what is acceptable, does that necessarily make the perpetrator racist or his comment racist, or a even a third party that thinks the original comment is okay, racist?"
If it's Corbyn, it must be racist/anti-semitic/anti British/ terrorist supporting. It's just the way it is. He's the devil in beige chinos.
I wonder if it is not Corbyn, should the same black and white, yes/no answer be applied to all forms of commentary with respect to racism?
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80% of UK growth from Immigration on 14:44 - Aug 24 with 1452 views
80% of UK growth from Immigration on 14:32 - Aug 24 by Herbivore
Using quotes devoid of context isn't often a good way to go, Glassers. It's easy to manipulate things to make them look how you want them to look. On the very last page I was shocked to see you using the following words, quoted verbatim here:
"....the Jewish community has an ulterior motive for highlighting the instances of anti semitism within the labour party and it's leadership". Z It's quite shocking to see you using exactly the kind of anti-Semitic tropes that you claim to rail against. Or maybe I just ignored the question mark at the end and the opening part of the question to demonstrate how easy it is to accuse someone of something if you don't bother with context and select snippets of quotes to back yourself up.
Out of interest, given that this happened 5 years ago in a room full of Jewish people and you are claiming that the words used were unequivocally anti-Semitic, how do you account for the fact that nobody made a complaint against Cornyn at the time and why has this story only come out now?
[Post edited 24 Aug 2018 14:34]
Remember when Boris wrote a long article on the Burka and he defended a woman's right to wear it but you took one quote and claimed it was Islamophobic? And remember when I completely agreed with you because regardless of context that one quote definitely was Islamophobic. There was no context anyone could put forward that would defend his remarks.
Corbyn hasn't been quoted out of context. He has been roundly condemned for his comments.
With regards to whether anyone complain ed five years ago. I can't answer that. What I do know is that a lot of the stuff that is reaching a wider audience about what he has said has been challenged at the time by the Jewish Chronicle and other Jewish media outlets.
The only reason we are hearing about it again is that it is now getting mainstream media publicity. Do papers like the Mail or the Sun care about antisemitism? Probably not. That doesn't make his words and actions any less repulsive.
80% of UK growth from Immigration on 11:43 - Aug 23 by Pinewoodblue
Shall we try and find some common ground? The original post was unnecessary but instead of having a go, taking the moral high ground, it would best have been ignored.
"Do we not have a moral duty to try and inform the ignorant?" I would counter that by asking If we have the right to suggest someone is ignorant just because they hold views you don't agree with?
‘The left has made the word fascist meaningless. They brand everyone they disagree with a fascist. Even if you believe in free speech and democracy they’ll call you a fascist, unaware that these are actually the principles of anti-fascism.’
80% of UK growth from Immigration on 14:45 - Aug 24 by Jonnosdreadlocks
‘The left has made the word fascist meaningless. They brand everyone they disagree with a fascist. Even if you believe in free speech and democracy they’ll call you a fascist, unaware that these are actually the principles of anti-fascism.’
80% of UK growth from Immigration on 12:09 - Aug 24 by Nthsuffolkblue
He accused "a group of British Zionists" in 2013 according to the previous one you shared. This needs more context I would suggest.
Can I ask you two questions? I expect you will deflect and/or ignore it but let's see.
Do you agree that Israel should treat Palestine in the way it does?
Does answering "no" to that question make you anti-Semitic?
He would definitely have been referring to all zionists, not just a few British ones, in fact probably all jews everywhere.......def info, I'm convinced, can GB officially declare me 'clean' now please! ....and 2 of my great grand parents were jewish so it's personal!
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
80% of UK growth from Immigration on 14:44 - Aug 24 by BrixtonBlue
I'll post this again as you seem to have missed it between serves...
"So are you admitting here that you don't know if the people Corbyn was talking about are Jewish, yet you're declaring it's anti-semitism?!?
Righto."
I have already addressed this elsewhere. We know he isn't talking about anyone who is indigenous as he clearly states "and secondly, having lived in this country for a very long time, probably all their lives"
It's racist whatever way you look at it as he is mocking immigrants for not being English enough.
The reason I don't want to keep answering you is that you are a cult follower who won't accept anything I post so what the F is the point tbh.
btw. You still haven't answered my question from earlier.
80% of UK growth from Immigration on 14:45 - Aug 24 by GlasgowBlue
Remember when Boris wrote a long article on the Burka and he defended a woman's right to wear it but you took one quote and claimed it was Islamophobic? And remember when I completely agreed with you because regardless of context that one quote definitely was Islamophobic. There was no context anyone could put forward that would defend his remarks.
Corbyn hasn't been quoted out of context. He has been roundly condemned for his comments.
With regards to whether anyone complain ed five years ago. I can't answer that. What I do know is that a lot of the stuff that is reaching a wider audience about what he has said has been challenged at the time by the Jewish Chronicle and other Jewish media outlets.
The only reason we are hearing about it again is that it is now getting mainstream media publicity. Do papers like the Mail or the Sun care about antisemitism? Probably not. That doesn't make his words and actions any less repulsive.
Here is the full quote btw
Listen how angry he gets.
"The only reason we are hearing about it again is that it is now getting mainstream media publicity."
What an odd argument. That's like saying "the only reason we are hearing about it is because we are hearing about it."
80% of UK growth from Immigration on 14:45 - Aug 24 by Jonnosdreadlocks
‘The left has made the word fascist meaningless. They brand everyone they disagree with a fascist. Even if you believe in free speech and democracy they’ll call you a fascist, unaware that these are actually the principles of anti-fascism.’
80% of UK growth from Immigration on 14:51 - Aug 24 by GlasgowBlue
I have already addressed this elsewhere. We know he isn't talking about anyone who is indigenous as he clearly states "and secondly, having lived in this country for a very long time, probably all their lives"
It's racist whatever way you look at it as he is mocking immigrants for not being English enough.
The reason I don't want to keep answering you is that you are a cult follower who won't accept anything I post so what the F is the point tbh.
btw. You still haven't answered my question from earlier.
I can't believe you still post that type of line
"You still haven't answered my question from earlier."
I would play a 3-setter, and go back through a few posts before making that sort of comment.
2
80% of UK growth from Immigration on 14:54 - Aug 24 with 1385 views
You have mentioned previously that you are engaged in fighting anti-semitism in real life. That's excellent, 99.9% of people on here would be behind you with that. Racism and discrimination in all it's forms should be highlighted and eradicated. That is exactly where you should be focusing your efforts.
However, while there is a space for non-football causes on here, if you bicker day in day out with Dolly et al, you achieve nothing other than getting people to just tune out. I'm not saying I'd want you to quit highlighting the things you are concerned about on here, I would just like to see you bring these things to our attention in a way which didn't descend into the same old spats. If that involves ignoring the people you consider to be trolls, then so be it.
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
80% of UK growth from Immigration on 14:54 - Aug 24 by SpruceMoose
You have mentioned previously that you are engaged in fighting anti-semitism in real life. That's excellent, 99.9% of people on here would be behind you with that. Racism and discrimination in all it's forms should be highlighted and eradicated. That is exactly where you should be focusing your efforts.
However, while there is a space for non-football causes on here, if you bicker day in day out with Dolly et al, you achieve nothing other than getting people to just tune out. I'm not saying I'd want you to quit highlighting the things you are concerned about on here, I would just like to see you bring these things to our attention in a way which didn't descend into the same old spats. If that involves ignoring the people you consider to be trolls, then so be it.
edit. you make a fair point re the endless bickering. Fir that reason I am putting dollers on ignore and hopefully debates can be of a higher quality.
Did you read the article? If so could you see that happening here?
80% of UK growth from Immigration on 14:45 - Aug 24 by Jonnosdreadlocks
‘The left has made the word fascist meaningless. They brand everyone they disagree with a fascist. Even if you believe in free speech and democracy they’ll call you a fascist, unaware that these are actually the principles of anti-fascism.’
I've only been skim reading the thread so might have missed it, but could you point me in the right direction to see where anyone has been called a fascist just for disagreeing with a 'leftie'?
In fact, doesn't have to be on this thread, could be on any.
No rush, but I would like to reassure myself that your meme isn't completely irrelevant and untrue.
1
80% of UK growth from Immigration on 14:58 - Aug 24 with 1355 views
80% of UK growth from Immigration on 14:45 - Aug 24 by Jonnosdreadlocks
‘The left has made the word fascist meaningless. They brand everyone they disagree with a fascist. Even if you believe in free speech and democracy they’ll call you a fascist, unaware that these are actually the principles of anti-fascism.’
I guess that could make sense, if you were as thick as two short planks and deeply insecure about your achievements in life.
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
80% of UK growth from Immigration on 14:45 - Aug 24 by GlasgowBlue
Remember when Boris wrote a long article on the Burka and he defended a woman's right to wear it but you took one quote and claimed it was Islamophobic? And remember when I completely agreed with you because regardless of context that one quote definitely was Islamophobic. There was no context anyone could put forward that would defend his remarks.
Corbyn hasn't been quoted out of context. He has been roundly condemned for his comments.
With regards to whether anyone complain ed five years ago. I can't answer that. What I do know is that a lot of the stuff that is reaching a wider audience about what he has said has been challenged at the time by the Jewish Chronicle and other Jewish media outlets.
The only reason we are hearing about it again is that it is now getting mainstream media publicity. Do papers like the Mail or the Sun care about antisemitism? Probably not. That doesn't make his words and actions any less repulsive.
Here is the full quote btw
Listen how angry he gets.
He's defending someone who was "berated" by a specific group of people after that person gave a talk. He's talking about those people specifically not understanding British irony.
How can you still claim that's attacking ALL of one race?
How can you still claim you're not taking it out of context?
Do you agree you don't even know if the people he was referring to are Jewish and yet are still shouting "ANTI-SEMITISM"?!?
80% of UK growth from Immigration on 14:56 - Aug 24 by GlasgowBlue
edit. you make a fair point re the endless bickering. Fir that reason I am putting dollers on ignore and hopefully debates can be of a higher quality.
Did you read the article? If so could you see that happening here?
[Post edited 24 Aug 2018 14:58]
I'm reading it now. Give me five minutes and I'll get back to you.
Edit - The premise that a Corbyn government would be far-left seems to be a false one, especially when the comparative examples given are the Communist government in Poland, and a Socialist one in in Venezuela.
I suppose the argument hinges on whether or not you believe Corbyn would institute a form of far-left politics should he ever find himself in a position of power. I personally do not, any more than I think that the Tories have implemented any kind of far-right government.
[Post edited 24 Aug 2018 15:04]
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
80% of UK growth from Immigration on 14:54 - Aug 24 by SpruceMoose
You have mentioned previously that you are engaged in fighting anti-semitism in real life. That's excellent, 99.9% of people on here would be behind you with that. Racism and discrimination in all it's forms should be highlighted and eradicated. That is exactly where you should be focusing your efforts.
However, while there is a space for non-football causes on here, if you bicker day in day out with Dolly et al, you achieve nothing other than getting people to just tune out. I'm not saying I'd want you to quit highlighting the things you are concerned about on here, I would just like to see you bring these things to our attention in a way which didn't descend into the same old spats. If that involves ignoring the people you consider to be trolls, then so be it.
Do you mean, say someone said something racist, and was possible a hate crime.
Are you saying what we should do is report the person to the authorities?
Rather than point out the likes and dislikes of the potential hate crime perpetrator?
And possible, just possible, make political comments about why the current government/police will not/cannot take action on potential hate crimes?
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80% of UK growth from Immigration on 15:01 - Aug 24 with 1329 views
80% of UK growth from Immigration on 13:16 - Aug 24 by GlasgowBlue
I was bailing out of this because I'm aware that these these threads can go like a game of ping pong. Especially when Dolly is involved. But I want to be clear on this because you are debating with an open mind.
I refer you to what David Baddiel said: "But he brings into the frame factors of culture and nationality. Why? Why bring in how long they've lived here and their level of Englishness?
That is racist. And it's not one isolated incident.
You could, as somebody earlier said, that his comments were directed at one group of Zionists. Not all Zionists and not all Jews. Just the Zionists who were in the room and had upset him in some fashion.
But that means Corbyn told a group of Jews who he disagreed with that they weren't English enough. That is racism.
There is no context that can be used to defend what he said.
......is this about whether you like Monty Python or not?
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
80% of UK growth from Immigration on 12:42 - Aug 23 by Ryorry
"Free Councils to spend house sale receipts on building new houses which meet local needs ..."
Isn't it a bit late for that though, surely the money's long gone? and many Councils are desperately stretched now as it is.
The money was ring-fenced and just sat in bank accounts earning negligible interest for years, only being allowed to be spent on repairing Council Houses, not building new ones.
That was the heart of what was wrong with the policy. Thatcher forced the sale of these assets that belonged to society, but didn't allow the capital to be re-invested to create more social benefit.
One of her worst policies, in my opinion, whereas encouraging Right-to-Buy but allowing the capital to be re-invested in new housing stock would have been a policy which would have reaped benefits for generations.
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