| Players that Mick has improved? 17:49 - Jan 27 with 8192 views | chrice |
Think this is my biggest issue with him. Trying to think of players that actually improved under him?!
I’ve got Cresswell, Mings and maybe Skuse
Also Bart, but I don’t think that counts cause he probably doesn’t work with him much. |  | | |  |
| Players that Mick has improved? on 18:53 - Jan 27 with 3487 views | Darth_Koont |
| Players that Mick has improved? on 18:46 - Jan 27 by Trequartista |
Partly, but i think that had he been playing at the level he did when he first came in, he would have been fighting for a place. |
Against Huws, Adeyemi, Bishop or Dozzell?
He's a senior player who'd by rights dropped down to 6th or 7th in the pecking order. And really nothing against Bru but the quality of the players we'd signed or were coming through.
He came back in because we're now weak in midfield but that's purely down to injuries. |  |
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| Players that Mick has improved? on 18:56 - Jan 27 with 3483 views | Trequartista |
| Players that Mick has improved? on 18:53 - Jan 27 by Darth_Koont |
Against Huws, Adeyemi, Bishop or Dozzell?
He's a senior player who'd by rights dropped down to 6th or 7th in the pecking order. And really nothing against Bru but the quality of the players we'd signed or were coming through.
He came back in because we're now weak in midfield but that's purely down to injuries. |
Even if i accept all that, it still doesn't mean he didn't go backwards, which i think happened before Huws, Adeyemi and Dozzell arrived on the scene. |  |
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| Players that Mick has improved? on 18:58 - Jan 27 with 3479 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Players that Mick has improved? on 18:41 - Jan 27 by Trequartista |
I think he's gone backwards, I think McCarthy does too hence him not getting a squad number this season. It's all opinion though so not really much more to discuss. |
I’m not sure McCarthy thinks that at all, he’s just finally got better options than having to rely on a trial list picked up in desperation to pad out the squad |  |
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| Players that Mick has improved? on 19:00 - Jan 27 with 3473 views | Darth_Koont |
| Players that Mick has improved? on 18:56 - Jan 27 by Trequartista |
Even if i accept all that, it still doesn't mean he didn't go backwards, which i think happened before Huws, Adeyemi and Dozzell arrived on the scene. |
Howe exactly did he go backwards? I've always thought him a solid 7/10 player with the ball and generally weak off it, which can be fine if the rest of the team is set up to cope with that.
But nothing he's done over the past 4 years has changed that opinion. | |
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| Players that Mick has improved? on 19:01 - Jan 27 with 3472 views | Trequartista |
| Players that Mick has improved? on 18:58 - Jan 27 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
I’m not sure McCarthy thinks that at all, he’s just finally got better options than having to rely on a trial list picked up in desperation to pad out the squad |
Again, this is not a question of how shrewd his signings have been, so Bru being a triallist is irrelevant, it was comment on if players have gone backwards during their time here, which i think he did last season in comparison to his first season here. | |
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| Players that Mick has improved? on 19:10 - Jan 27 with 3455 views | Trequartista |
| Players that Mick has improved? on 19:00 - Jan 27 by Darth_Koont |
Howe exactly did he go backwards? I've always thought him a solid 7/10 player with the ball and generally weak off it, which can be fine if the rest of the team is set up to cope with that.
But nothing he's done over the past 4 years has changed that opinion. |
I know there are other factors in play, but it seems rather far-fetched to me that no players have gone backwards yet the team has gone backwards in the past two seasons. [Post edited 27 Jan 2018 19:32]
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| Players that Mick has improved? on 19:11 - Jan 27 with 3444 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Players that Mick has improved? on 19:01 - Jan 27 by Trequartista |
Again, this is not a question of how shrewd his signings have been, so Bru being a triallist is irrelevant, it was comment on if players have gone backwards during their time here, which i think he did last season in comparison to his first season here. |
You literally posted that you thought Mick thought he had gone backwards as he was no longer a prominent part of the squad
I don’t believe that to be the case - I think he just feels he has better options, and that Bru would probably have never been an Ipswich player in the first place had he not been forced to scrape the barrel at the time | |
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| Players that Mick has improved? on 19:12 - Jan 27 with 3444 views | StirlingArcher |
| Players that Mick has improved? on 18:34 - Jan 27 by Trequartista |
It's not logic, it's opinion, i listed players who i think have gone backwards since they first played for us, you disagree with all of them. I disagree with Cameron Stewart, how can he have got any better or worse if he never played? |
oh so you actually mean "that I've seen" |  | | |
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| Players that Mick has improved? on 19:12 - Jan 27 with 3443 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Players that Mick has improved? on 19:10 - Jan 27 by Trequartista |
I know there are other factors in play, but it seems rather far-fetched to me that no players have gone backwards yet the team has gone backwards in the past two seasons. [Post edited 27 Jan 2018 19:32]
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It’s almost like we sold our most important player at the start of last season | |
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| Players that Mick has improved? on 19:19 - Jan 27 with 3428 views | Darth_Koont |
| Players that Mick has improved? on 19:10 - Jan 27 by Trequartista |
I know there are other factors in play, but it seems rather far-fetched to me that no players have gone backwards yet the team has gone backwards in the past two seasons. [Post edited 27 Jan 2018 19:32]
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Has it gone backwards though? We're younger and are trying to play the ball on the deck/keep possession. Added to which we seem to have more value throughout despite having a tight wage structure.
I think the midfield injuries have had a huge effect. FWIW I believe Mick could have thrown in Hyam or Bru from the start today and made us more solid but it's a marginal call. It's been difficult to judge him when he's not had an obvious choice to play midfielders.
On a related note, and nothing you've said, but I do find it funny with the perception that Mick sets up for a draw from the start. As far as I'm concerned we've been far too attacking throughout this season with the result that we've never really pressured sides. If we could get more "negative" and get 1 or 2 of our first-choice midfielders in there, then I think we'd look far better going forward. | |
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| Players that Mick has improved? on 19:30 - Jan 27 with 3422 views | Trequartista |
| Players that Mick has improved? on 19:11 - Jan 27 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
You literally posted that you thought Mick thought he had gone backwards as he was no longer a prominent part of the squad
I don’t believe that to be the case - I think he just feels he has better options, and that Bru would probably have never been an Ipswich player in the first place had he not been forced to scrape the barrel at the time |
I don't think that believing someone is not as good as they were previously and having better options are mutually exclusive in deciding on if someone gets a squad number. And i agree on your last comment about how he arrived here, but once he was here and got into the team, he was as good as those that cost fees, as opposed to Bajner who looked like what he was, a barrel-scraper. | |
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| Players that Mick has improved? on 19:32 - Jan 27 with 3422 views | Trequartista |
| Players that Mick has improved? on 19:12 - Jan 27 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
It’s almost like we sold our most important player at the start of last season |
It's almost like someone deliberately ignored the words "i know there are other factors in play" | |
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| Players that Mick has improved? on 19:36 - Jan 27 with 3418 views | Trequartista |
| Players that Mick has improved? on 19:19 - Jan 27 by Darth_Koont |
Has it gone backwards though? We're younger and are trying to play the ball on the deck/keep possession. Added to which we seem to have more value throughout despite having a tight wage structure.
I think the midfield injuries have had a huge effect. FWIW I believe Mick could have thrown in Hyam or Bru from the start today and made us more solid but it's a marginal call. It's been difficult to judge him when he's not had an obvious choice to play midfielders.
On a related note, and nothing you've said, but I do find it funny with the perception that Mick sets up for a draw from the start. As far as I'm concerned we've been far too attacking throughout this season with the result that we've never really pressured sides. If we could get more "negative" and get 1 or 2 of our first-choice midfielders in there, then I think we'd look far better going forward. |
I was referring to the last two seasons' league positions. This season we are yet to find where we will finish, and I haven't seen enough games to contradict or agree with your fuller analysis. [Post edited 27 Jan 2018 19:36]
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| Players that Mick has improved? on 19:36 - Jan 27 with 3416 views | jas0999 |
Skuse hasn’t improved. In recent years he has got worse. His earlier performances in line with Bristol days. Mick has just discouraged any forward movement, | | | |
| Players that Mick has improved? on 19:49 - Jan 27 with 3402 views | Darth_Koont |
| Players that Mick has improved? on 19:36 - Jan 27 by jas0999 |
Skuse hasn’t improved. In recent years he has got worse. His earlier performances in line with Bristol days. Mick has just discouraged any forward movement, |
As Skuse is still an obvious starter for Mick (and most of the posters that make any sense on here) I don't think he has gone backwards.
How exactly has he got worse as a player? He wasn't exactly Frank Lampard at Bristol City. | |
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| Players that Mick has improved? on 20:22 - Jan 27 with 3380 views | rayman_10 |
| Players that Mick has improved? on 19:36 - Jan 27 by jas0999 |
Skuse hasn’t improved. In recent years he has got worse. His earlier performances in line with Bristol days. Mick has just discouraged any forward movement, |
If you think Skuse has got worse than you have been watching a different player to me. Skuse is one of the most important players in the team. It’s no coincidence when he’s injured we seem to have worse results |  |
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| Players that Mick has improved? on 20:28 - Jan 27 with 3370 views | Darth_Koont |
| Players that Mick has improved? on 19:36 - Jan 27 by Trequartista |
I was referring to the last two seasons' league positions. This season we are yet to find where we will finish, and I haven't seen enough games to contradict or agree with your fuller analysis. [Post edited 27 Jan 2018 19:36]
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But you have to look beyond results and see where we are in a competitive sense over the next few years, not just the current season.
That's the only way to build a side and the momentum you need to do anything in football. Unless you just pour millions into it instead and are happy with the possibility of League One or worse. | |
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| Players that Mick has improved? on 20:33 - Jan 27 with 3370 views | Terry_Nutkins |
Off the top of my head: Murphy (massively), McGoldrick (injuries now taking toll a bit), Waghorn and Garner so far, Connelly so far, mings, Cresswell, Bart, Gerken, Spence, Celina, Frazer, Lawrence, Downes, Nydam, Bru. | |
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| Players that Mick has improved? on 21:20 - Jan 27 with 3347 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Players that Mick has improved? on 19:32 - Jan 27 by Trequartista |
It's almost like someone deliberately ignored the words "i know there are other factors in play" |
Were they in there before you edited your post?
If so then yes, I rather scooted over them - but the loss of Murphy is for me clearly the biggest factor in our regression, not individuals getting worse
Of course, you can make a case that the likes of McGoldrick and Chambers are not quite as good now as in our playoff season. But I would argue that that is more due to being a couple of years older (and in McGoldricks case injuries) rather than Mick making them worse - indeed both of those played the best football of their careers under McCarthy | |
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| Players that Mick has improved? on 21:23 - Jan 27 with 3344 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Players that Mick has improved? on 19:30 - Jan 27 by Trequartista |
I don't think that believing someone is not as good as they were previously and having better options are mutually exclusive in deciding on if someone gets a squad number. And i agree on your last comment about how he arrived here, but once he was here and got into the team, he was as good as those that cost fees, as opposed to Bajner who looked like what he was, a barrel-scraper. |
I think it’s pretty obvious really
Bru played lots before as we had very few other options. Now we have the likes of Adeyemi and Huws plus youngsters who have emerged, Bru was demoted. Of course since we have been riddled with injuries Bru has earned a reprieve | |
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| Players that Mick has improved? on 21:30 - Jan 27 with 3339 views | LeoMuff |
| Players that Mick has improved? on 20:33 - Jan 27 by Terry_Nutkins |
Off the top of my head: Murphy (massively), McGoldrick (injuries now taking toll a bit), Waghorn and Garner so far, Connelly so far, mings, Cresswell, Bart, Gerken, Spence, Celina, Frazer, Lawrence, Downes, Nydam, Bru. |
Exactly, this has to be one of the most desperate knock MM threads so far, he turned murph into the leagues top scorer and £10k Mings into £8m Mings ffs
And yet we are arguing if Kevin Brus performances have dipped 1%.... |  |
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| Players that Mick has improved? on 21:38 - Jan 27 with 3333 views | NSL |
Knudsen has improved from the player he was when brought in to now. Granted he's gone from terrible to average but he's improved all the same.
Daryl Murphy must have had the biggest improvement margin in the history of the club. | |
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| Players that Mick has improved? on 22:21 - Jan 27 with 3320 views | J4ck22 |
| Players that Mick has improved? on 18:14 - Jan 27 by Trequartista |
i don't care how much they cost or where they were before, a decline under McCarthy is a comparison between the level they played at when they first pulled on a town shirt, and the level they are at now. |
Did you even see Smith before Mick arrived?! Does Peterborough away 2011 mean anything to you? | | | |
| Players that Mick has improved? on 22:31 - Jan 27 with 3308 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Players that Mick has improved? on 21:30 - Jan 27 by LeoMuff |
Exactly, this has to be one of the most desperate knock MM threads so far, he turned murph into the leagues top scorer and £10k Mings into £8m Mings ffs
And yet we are arguing if Kevin Brus performances have dipped 1%.... |
Haha, well said | |
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