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Walters on Keane: I'm Possibly the Only One That Stood Up to Him, Maybe That's What Bothers Him Most
at 10:13:50

I’m no admirer of RK and loved JW as a player for us but if this tale is to be believed JW has let himself down. Whatever went on RK was the manager, perhaps not a good one, but nevertheless deserving of a bit of respect from his players.
The whole saga smells of petty posturing by both parties and neither appears to put the interests of the club above their own personal agendas. Sad but true.
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Bolton Could Be Liquidated as Takeover Collapses
at 15:25:47

I still have cold sweats when I think back to our situation in 2009. (Was it really only 10 years ago?) The difference between us and Bolton/Bury is that we were still a viable business especially in football terms. We were short of operating capital and were struggling to meet the usual day to day obligations. Not a good situation but not terminal or unmanageable even if unpalatable to local business. In comparison Bolton/Bury are financial basket cases and their problems are not going to disappear even with substantial cash injections. They have no players and no recruitment policy is going to work now!
Both clubs are drifting towards oblivion and while in my heart I feel desperately for the fans and hope fervently that there is a solution out there, my head tells me salvation is unlikely.
It just underlines the fact that we got away with it in 2009! It could easily have been us!
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Lambert: Very Professional, Very Thorough, Could Have Scored More
at 21:15:31

Interesting argument!
Bottom line is that football clubs must be sustainable! If things go pearshaped they need to go through the normal corporate processes associated with failed companies.
Numerous companies fail everyday but do not have the emotional impact of a failed football club!
It’s a horrible thing to contemplate! If a supermarket goes under or even a beloved shop like Woolworths fails, everyone swallows it. But supporters of football clubs in trouble can’t just swallow it. The jagged thing in your throat keeps sticking around and won’t be shifted.
We can only sympathise with the supporters of Bury and Bolton and pray that we will not be in their position any time soon! But it’s not a given.
However whatever happens Bolton and Bury can’t be saved by city chancers. If they are to survive at all they need community support. Both clubs operate in the Greater Manchester area and in straitened times in League 1 such support is unlikely. Sad but true! Sustainability looks beyond both clubs at the moment and sadly a happy ending is unlikely!
Selfishly I worry that if Bolton fold we will lose 3 points and 5 goals when their results are expunged!
But for the supporters of Bolton & Bury and football in general I hope resolutions can be achieved.
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Lambert: Deserved Point, Some Good Moments, Some Not So Good Moments
at 10:55:50

BettyBlue
Understand and in some ways empathise with you. PL is not everyone’s cup of tea but he has more experience of this league than any of us! At the moment it has to be a matter of trust!
In any event a sense of complacency in the Manager should not be seen as the issue for today!
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Evans on Relegation, New Arrivals and the Promotion Challenge
at 22:22:54

Too many people are banging on about the ‘three extra signings’. The caveat was that any such signings should suit the club! And why not! We don’t want signings for the sake of it. As others have outlined we want value for money and if, for any reason, these signings do not materialise it should not be another stick to beat ME with. If you accept that we have to act within budget the pool of opportunity is somewhat limited. Those who think that ME will agree player terms substantially outside budget are effectively howling at the moon. The probability is that there are precious few options available.
People scoff at the strategy of developing the Academy. But at least these boys will learn the point of playing for a wonderful club! Transfers in might get it too! Players on loan might just see it as a meal ticket until they move on.
But ultimately we want our team to be successful. And we need all the help we can get! It is clearly up to PL to create a team with a winning ethos which will make us successful. Any success after 15 years of underachievement would be a proper reward for the legions of faithful supporters who have been the shining stars in the darkest period of our history.
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Evans on Relegation, New Arrivals and the Promotion Challenge
at 14:49:34

Any business which purports to be a well run business operates under a predefined budget. ME has explained that the club’s budget requires a contribution from him to maintain the sustainability of the club. Only a deluded minority would surely dispute the veracity of this statement. There are those who feel that he should top up his contribution so that some new players can be acquired. The question is - Why should he? Why should he be the cash cow, routinely chucking good money after bad in pursuit of the improbable dream?
There are FFP rules to follow as well as corporate and financial law. Midas has provided information on the Salary Management Protocol and suggests that there is some wiggle room available under the guidelines to allow ME to up his contribution. Again why should he? The operating budget has been set and the club needs to work with it. The club’s financial statements do not present a rosy picture of the financial health of the club. Without the support of the ME Group we would be dead meat. ME can’t demand repayment of his contributions/loans because there is no money. He can only cut his losses by selling the club and in our situation we would not represent a good business opportunity. He could stop the funding which would very quickly result in administration and ultimately liquidation. In so doing ME even as a preferred creditor would get precious little of his money back!
So the bottom line is we are stuck with him and he is stuck with us and we just need to get along like it or not!
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Fourth Sell-On Windfall for Blues as Moore Completes Wigan Move
at 10:02:14

Beattie
I am no supporter of ME but the club have steadfastly observed the spirit of the FFP rules when other clubs do not. ITFC has basically been operating at a loss for at least 25 years and probably a lot longer than that. In recent years costs have soared and for those clubs outside the Premier League it is almost impossible to be competitive and still cover those costs through normal football streams of revenue. While I cannot comment on the finances of the two clubs you mention it should be remembered that they are both Championship clubs with access to better tv revenues, a preferential share of solidarity payments from the Premier League and better quality and more remunerative sponsorship deals. Given that we have a potential black hole of £9m to cover this season I would say that they are better placed to take a punt than we are.
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Fourth Sell-On Windfall for Blues as Moore Completes Wigan Move
at 22:39:06

Pilgrimblue
It’s not quite that simple. The fundamental point of FFP is that Clubs need to balance football-related expenditure - transfers and wages - with television and ticket income, plus revenues raised by their commercial departments. Significantly money spent on stadiums, training facilities, youth development or community projects is exempt.
We found to our cost in recent years that at least 50% of clubs in the Championship deliberately flout FFP rules in a desperate gamble to get promotion to the Premier League. ITFC did not! Most of these clubs could be considered as being big city clubs with substantial financial support from their owners. Over the years the EFL has been wary of potentially expensive challenges to their imposing penalties for supposed FFP breaches of FFP rules.
The situation is even worse in the divisions below the Championship inasmuch as television revenues are drastically reduced and the Premiership solidarity payments are spread much more thinly. But the FFP rules which, like them or not, are there to prevent clubs spending beyond their means and ultimately risking financial ruin and going out of business. As Bolton and Bury have found to their cost clubs outside of the elite are vulnerable to all kinds of financial issues. Both clubs now have to prove that they are financially viable or risk going out of business!
We can blame ME for all our ills but going forward we cannot, except for certain caveats, generally spend money that the club does not earn. Thus, Pilgrimblue, any signing must be affordable whether transfer fees are paid or not and longer term contracts are likely to be out of the question at the moment.
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Town Reported to Have Rebuffed QPR Judge Bid
at 12:59:37

Players and their agents rule these days! They might call us the best fans in the world one day and sell out for a bag of beans the next,
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Town Reported to Have Rebuffed QPR Judge Bid
at 11:50:23

Ok! But if the player wants to go it will be very difficult to keep him happy?
I for one am getting kinda tired of this ‘I know nothing’ response from PL. it is his job to know and his job to handle the matter!
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Lambert: Without Money It's a Different Project
at 11:29:12

One further point and then I will shut up! You dismiss the theory of the demise of the football club. It would make better sense for the IBC to simply give notice to the club to quit PR without any financial benefit to the football club! The bottom line is they won’t! The town needs a football club with all the economic benefits that go with it particularly if at any time soon we might actually have a successful season. That does not go hand in glove with an out of town stadium. Neither of us will be able to claim victory in this spat but I am truly confident that our Saturdays will be spent at Portman Road rather than in Felixstowe or the like. And now it’s goodbye from me!
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Lambert: Without Money It's a Different Project
at 10:43:35

Wow! As conspiracy theories go this is up there with the moon landings denial! The financial numbers simply don’t stack up. ME is not into property development and I cannot believe that he has waited more than 10 years racking up debts to the tune of £80m plus just to be forever known as the man who closed down Portman Road! PR is already a community stadium held, as previously stated, under a covenant. The ME Group, in their acquisition of the club, bought the responsibility for the debt incurred by the development of the North Stand. That debt is still due to the ME Group. If, and it’s a monumental if, a housing project on PR is on the cards, what advantage can there be for ME?
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Lambert: Without Money It's a Different Project
at 22:32:54

73
If, as you have said the overall project absorbs just 6% of the total development, do you not think that the problems (hidden or otherwise) are too much to handle for the developers? Do you really believe that the electorate in Ipswich are going to countenance the demise of their football club? There will be massive issues for any potential developers to deal with. As previously stated PR is subject to a covenant and you do the the representatives on the IBC a huge disservice in assuming that they would lie down and kowtow to the wishes of the supposed developers! ITFC is one of Ipswich’s jewels. A new out of town stadium might not work. It hasn’t worked in Colchester! It might not work in Southend! We have enough issues with things on the pitch please do not scare people with non existent off field nonsense.
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Lambert: Without Money It's a Different Project
at 15:42:11

No sir! It would require a lot more than that. The legal bill would be massive and the process with legal challenges and appeals etc could be protracted. And if you think that the objective of the takeover all those years ago was to build affordable homes on Portman Road incurring annual losses of £10 m for more than 10 years in the process you clearly have no business acumen. 100 starter homes attracting a profit of even £100,000 would only generate £10 m. Tell me, where’s the logic in that? ME has the power and the right to close us down in a heartbeat. Always has had! If he had any aspirations to asset strip he surely would have done so by now. Furthermore even a cooperative Borough Council would not remain in office very long if even a hint of a sale of PR got out!
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Lambert: Without Money It's a Different Project
at 15:04:22

73
ITFC does not own the ground. It is held under covenant by Ipswich Borough Council. The covenant states that the ground must be used for sports purposes so your assertion that it can be converted to housing is frankly risible. Any attempt to subvert the covenant would be challenged in court and the terms of the covenant would prevail.
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Lambert: Without Money It's a Different Project
at 13:56:55

73. When will you face reality. Of course ITFC is part of a group of corporations making up the ME empire. You would not get any access to financial information if it wasn’t. The shares in the ME holding company which itself owns all the shares in the ME empire are owned in entirety by ME and his family and friends and he derives a good living from their continued success in their fields of operation. Any fool will know that any business whatever the returns and risks needs to be protected through a corporate existence. Through the salary paid to him as CEO and no doubt the dividends the holding company declares to his shareholders he is able to enjoy a more than reasonable standard of living! How he spends his money is his affair. However he is under no obligation to throw good money after bad to satisfy discontented ‘customers’. Because you can be sure he did not get into football club ownership as a philanthropic gesture with a lifetime guarantee of being an ATM to deliver cash all the time. He saw an opportunity but with misguided management the project went wrong. It has cost him millions but as a businessman, instead of baling out, he is trying through standard good business practices to repair the damage that he and his managerial appointments have inflicted on us. They are gone and will never carry the can but ME, to his credit, is trying to pick up the pieces. I am not an apologist for ME but a lot of people on this thread expect too much!
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Lambert: Without Money It's a Different Project
at 22:19:50

73
But sorry he is NOT personally responsible for any operating debt that the ITFC company might accrue. The name of the company in legal terms is just a label, ie meaningless for anyone other than ME. You might lay the blame for all our ills on ME ( and believe me I can’t absolve him fro a litany of past errors) but he is propping up the club. Without his support we would already be doomed.
All companies are constituted so that investors have a degree of protection. In times past they were all set up as ‘Limited’ companies which ensured that the shareholders in the company had their liability limited to the nominal value of the shares. Nowadays companies are set up as PLCs (public Limited Companies) but investors still enjoy the same limited liability protections under corporate law.

Do you think Philip Green has any personal responsibility to the shareholders, customers or staff of BHS. He doesn’t! All perceived disadvantaged stakeholders have to claim against any remaining corporate assets. In our case, other than the football staff there are none.

So lobby all you can to get ME to give us a better deal. Just bear in mind what the ultimate price might be.
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Lambert: Without Money It's a Different Project
at 20:43:29

73 Your post 22.05 Jul 8 stated ‘If he walks he's liable for club debt that might be left behind’. How much more personal do you need it to be?
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Lambert: Without Money It's a Different Project
at 19:02:25

Thanks Rabbit! Re-reading your post I can understand the confusion. Keep posting my friend! One day the penny might drop!
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Mings Completes Villa Move
at 15:01:18

Unfortunately, as in domestic life, you can’t spend beyond your means. IE you can’t ringfence windfall payments or for that matter any other transfer receipts and freely spend the proceeds while still racking up debts elsewhere. Thus the transfer windfalls we are receiving have to be used to keep us operational. Of course ME could make funds available for getting players if so inclined but this would merely increase the debt to the ME Group. Recent history suggests that this is not likely! So please don’t expect any transfer receipts to automatically be made available for reinvestment. It just doesn’t work like that. Ask PL.
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