| 8 changes last night 09:10 - Jun 29 with 1768 views | FrimleyBlue |
So why are there a lot of people online etc who are now negative about England..........
Good tactics by Southgate imo. Those who have been involved in past 2 wins, know they haven't been beaten themselves so go into the Tuesday game on a high and also shows Southgate those on the 'fringe' of the team, who could do a job and who needs to be sat on the bench never to see light of a pitch again lol.
One thing I did like about last nights game, different players involved, but we still tried to play out from the back, there were some nice triangle plays on the flanks and it showed Southgate has a certain way of playing and all squad players are involved in this, although some aren't as good as others when it comes to the match itself. |  |
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| 8 changes last night on 09:20 - Jun 29 with 1741 views | GlebeTractor |
Oh mate.
The amount of idiots on Twitter saying we were ****.
It does my head in. Clearly anyone with half a brain would prefer to play Columbia (who I'm not saying are easy oppo by any stretch of the imagination) then go onto playing Switz/Swe etc rather than Brazil, Portugal, Arg type teams.
Good tactics, a rest, a preventative measure discipline wise too.
You need to look at the bigger picture.
We're far more likely to get further in the comp by losing last night.
IF we get beaten by Columbia, then thats that. [Post edited 29 Jun 2018 9:21]
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| 8 changes last night on 09:30 - Jun 29 with 1716 views | SouperJim |
| 8 changes last night on 09:20 - Jun 29 by GlebeTractor |
Oh mate.
The amount of idiots on Twitter saying we were ****.
It does my head in. Clearly anyone with half a brain would prefer to play Columbia (who I'm not saying are easy oppo by any stretch of the imagination) then go onto playing Switz/Swe etc rather than Brazil, Portugal, Arg type teams.
Good tactics, a rest, a preventative measure discipline wise too.
You need to look at the bigger picture.
We're far more likely to get further in the comp by losing last night.
IF we get beaten by Columbia, then thats that. [Post edited 29 Jun 2018 9:21]
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I'd much rather be playing Japan next than Columbia. Further into the competition? To try and predict further than the next game is playing with fire, we have already seen plenty of upsets this tournament.
The biggest disappointment for me is the wave of good feeling towards the team has largely been eroded by what we saw last night. It's a real shame and it gives me no sense of pride in my national team. |  |
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| 8 changes last night on 09:33 - Jun 29 with 1703 views | FrimleyBlue |
| 8 changes last night on 09:30 - Jun 29 by SouperJim |
I'd much rather be playing Japan next than Columbia. Further into the competition? To try and predict further than the next game is playing with fire, we have already seen plenty of upsets this tournament.
The biggest disappointment for me is the wave of good feeling towards the team has largely been eroded by what we saw last night. It's a real shame and it gives me no sense of pride in my national team. |
oh shut up
no sense of pride. we've qualified for the knockout stage. Germany and others haven't. | |
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| 8 changes last night on 09:36 - Jun 29 with 1692 views | King_of_Portman_Rd |
It was probably a 'typical' England performance.. Did alright in patches, looked average in patches. No one looked dreadful, but then no one looked incredible so a decent run out for those involved.
I was a little disappointed to see so many changes, personally I would have made maybe 4 changes to keep some of the core of the team together. Jones for Walker, Rose for Young, Dier for Henderson, Rashford for Vardy & maybe rested Lingard.
Also, I cannot believe that 3 games in and Lingard is possibly one of the most influential players for us in terms of providing an attacking threat. I though Delph played well last night, but it isn't his game to run in behind players or drive at the them in possession and we need at least one of Ali or Lingard on the pitch to do that for the rest of the tournament |  | | |
| 8 changes last night on 09:41 - Jun 29 with 1681 views | SouperJim |
| 8 changes last night on 09:33 - Jun 29 by FrimleyBlue |
oh shut up
no sense of pride. we've qualified for the knockout stage. Germany and others haven't. |
And instead of celebrating the fact that we're through to the next round, here we are arguing about our approach and which team we'd rather be playing in the next two games. Resting so many players and trying to look too far ahead is to blame. Winning games of football breeds confidence. | |
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| 8 changes last night on 09:46 - Jun 29 with 1674 views | farkenhell |
Well said, I couldn't agree more.
There were many benefits from giving the reserves a full game and Southgate probably learned more about his squad last night than he would have done had he picked the first team.
Yes, Columbia are probably stronger than Japan, but as others have said, if we are going to progress in this tournament, then we will need to beat the stronger teams. If our first team don't beat Columbia, then surely this tells us that we are not as advanced as we all thought after thrashing Panama and therefore, in all likelihood, we would come up short against Brazil or Mexico.
Imagine what it would have done for our confidence and momentum if Southgate had played our first team last night but we failed to beat Belgium's reserves. Imagine the bedwetting then! |  | | |
| 8 changes last night on 09:48 - Jun 29 with 1668 views | FrimleyBlue |
| 8 changes last night on 09:41 - Jun 29 by SouperJim |
And instead of celebrating the fact that we're through to the next round, here we are arguing about our approach and which team we'd rather be playing in the next two games. Resting so many players and trying to look too far ahead is to blame. Winning games of football breeds confidence. |
Confidence for who
I assure you the 'starting 11' are full of confidence and that's all that matters
Remember we are a young squad. Those in the starting 11 would also imo preferred the route we will take as they will take it as having a better chance to win.
You say winning breads confidence, yes it does. But beating those in our group won't suddenly make us believe we could be ready to beat the Brazil's of the tournament.
I Don't think we can win the world cup. But I think the players want to get as far as possible. Even a QF would have exceeded expectations.
I'm celebrating going through and so should everyone else. Those who are arguing about approach to the game are doing so just to provide a negative to what has been a success so far.
Just out of interest, say we played our 1st 11 last night and lost. We'd be in the same situation but confidence knocked. this way, we go into Tuesday absolutely buzzing | |
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| 8 changes last night on 09:50 - Jun 29 with 1664 views | SouperJim |
| 8 changes last night on 09:46 - Jun 29 by farkenhell |
Well said, I couldn't agree more.
There were many benefits from giving the reserves a full game and Southgate probably learned more about his squad last night than he would have done had he picked the first team.
Yes, Columbia are probably stronger than Japan, but as others have said, if we are going to progress in this tournament, then we will need to beat the stronger teams. If our first team don't beat Columbia, then surely this tells us that we are not as advanced as we all thought after thrashing Panama and therefore, in all likelihood, we would come up short against Brazil or Mexico.
Imagine what it would have done for our confidence and momentum if Southgate had played our first team last night but we failed to beat Belgium's reserves. Imagine the bedwetting then! |
All games carry a risk of defeat. Isn't that why the game is played? I watch football to be entertained and to see my side win. Last night we attempted to do neither.
Many England fans get on their high horse and berate other nations for their diving, influencing the ref etc and put England up on a pedestal as some kind of moral authority on how the game should be played. What we did last night makes us look like massive hypocrites. | |
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| 8 changes last night on 09:53 - Jun 29 with 1655 views | farkenhell |
| 8 changes last night on 09:36 - Jun 29 by King_of_Portman_Rd |
It was probably a 'typical' England performance.. Did alright in patches, looked average in patches. No one looked dreadful, but then no one looked incredible so a decent run out for those involved.
I was a little disappointed to see so many changes, personally I would have made maybe 4 changes to keep some of the core of the team together. Jones for Walker, Rose for Young, Dier for Henderson, Rashford for Vardy & maybe rested Lingard.
Also, I cannot believe that 3 games in and Lingard is possibly one of the most influential players for us in terms of providing an attacking threat. I though Delph played well last night, but it isn't his game to run in behind players or drive at the them in possession and we need at least one of Ali or Lingard on the pitch to do that for the rest of the tournament |
For me, the most telling point from last night is that, on current form, Dier appears to be nowhere near Henderson's performance level. I couldn't imagine saying that 12 months ago!
It also brought it home to me that Southgate's preferred starting 11 is spot on. | | | |
| 8 changes last night on 09:55 - Jun 29 with 1647 views | FrimleyBlue |
| 8 changes last night on 09:50 - Jun 29 by SouperJim |
All games carry a risk of defeat. Isn't that why the game is played? I watch football to be entertained and to see my side win. Last night we attempted to do neither.
Many England fans get on their high horse and berate other nations for their diving, influencing the ref etc and put England up on a pedestal as some kind of moral authority on how the game should be played. What we did last night makes us look like massive hypocrites. |
I didn't see any diving, influencing the ref?
I just saw a manager provide playing opportunities to those in the squad in a worldcup game. | |
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| 8 changes last night on 09:55 - Jun 29 with 1646 views | SouperJim |
| 8 changes last night on 09:48 - Jun 29 by FrimleyBlue |
Confidence for who
I assure you the 'starting 11' are full of confidence and that's all that matters
Remember we are a young squad. Those in the starting 11 would also imo preferred the route we will take as they will take it as having a better chance to win.
You say winning breads confidence, yes it does. But beating those in our group won't suddenly make us believe we could be ready to beat the Brazil's of the tournament.
I Don't think we can win the world cup. But I think the players want to get as far as possible. Even a QF would have exceeded expectations.
I'm celebrating going through and so should everyone else. Those who are arguing about approach to the game are doing so just to provide a negative to what has been a success so far.
Just out of interest, say we played our 1st 11 last night and lost. We'd be in the same situation but confidence knocked. this way, we go into Tuesday absolutely buzzing |
Do you think the England side who played Tunisia and Panama would have struggled to beat the side Belgium put out last night? I don't. You risk defeat in every game, that's football. I'd rather see us try and win than just accept a draw or loss.
If we don't think we can win this tournament, maybe we should try being positive every game instead? As a footballing nation we are mentally fragile and this is what has held us back in my lifetime, more than any lack of ability on the pitch. Until we change our approach I don't see this changing.
Negativity breeds negativity. | |
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| 8 changes last night on 09:59 - Jun 29 with 1635 views | FrimleyBlue |
| 8 changes last night on 09:55 - Jun 29 by SouperJim |
Do you think the England side who played Tunisia and Panama would have struggled to beat the side Belgium put out last night? I don't. You risk defeat in every game, that's football. I'd rather see us try and win than just accept a draw or loss.
If we don't think we can win this tournament, maybe we should try being positive every game instead? As a footballing nation we are mentally fragile and this is what has held us back in my lifetime, more than any lack of ability on the pitch. Until we change our approach I don't see this changing.
Negativity breeds negativity. |
But only some fans are being negative. It's all positive in the England camp and that's where it counts.
I might not think we can win it, But the players may feel they can but knew it would be harder the other way
Look at it this way. If town had the choice to be in the same situ in the fa cup...
Would you rather win a game and end up having to play Newcastle, Utd and City
or Draw/Lose a game and play Bristol, Swansea, Wigan | |
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| 8 changes last night on 09:59 - Jun 29 with 1633 views | farkenhell |
| 8 changes last night on 09:48 - Jun 29 by FrimleyBlue |
Confidence for who
I assure you the 'starting 11' are full of confidence and that's all that matters
Remember we are a young squad. Those in the starting 11 would also imo preferred the route we will take as they will take it as having a better chance to win.
You say winning breads confidence, yes it does. But beating those in our group won't suddenly make us believe we could be ready to beat the Brazil's of the tournament.
I Don't think we can win the world cup. But I think the players want to get as far as possible. Even a QF would have exceeded expectations.
I'm celebrating going through and so should everyone else. Those who are arguing about approach to the game are doing so just to provide a negative to what has been a success so far.
Just out of interest, say we played our 1st 11 last night and lost. We'd be in the same situation but confidence knocked. this way, we go into Tuesday absolutely buzzing |
Well said - again. The starting 11 should go into the next match full of confidence, having thrashed a fellow world cup qualifier 6-1 a little over a week before.
Another benefit that should not be understated, as Gary Neville pointed out last night, is that the team can begin preparing for the Colombia game today. Had we played the first team last night, today and tomorrow would have largely been resting days, therefore delaying the preparations to Sunday. | | | |
| 8 changes last night on 10:06 - Jun 29 with 1620 views | SouperJim |
| 8 changes last night on 09:59 - Jun 29 by FrimleyBlue |
But only some fans are being negative. It's all positive in the England camp and that's where it counts.
I might not think we can win it, But the players may feel they can but knew it would be harder the other way
Look at it this way. If town had the choice to be in the same situ in the fa cup...
Would you rather win a game and end up having to play Newcastle, Utd and City
or Draw/Lose a game and play Bristol, Swansea, Wigan |
I don't think you can state that it's all positive in the England camp, that's speculation. We don't know what the impact of last night's defeat might be on the players. I do think it's fair to say the generally speaking, losing games has a negative impact on confidence.
You don't progress in the FA cup by failing to win and rounds are spaced much further apart, I don't think you can compare the two. But for what it's worth, we've lost a game and face a stronger side next as a result, not a weaker one.
Anyway, I don't think we're going to resolve anything discussing this, differing opinions. Hopefully we smash Columbia to pieces and go on to win the whole thing, then there'll be no autopsy and further analysis of this game. | |
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| 8 changes last night on 10:06 - Jun 29 with 1620 views | farkenhell |
| 8 changes last night on 09:50 - Jun 29 by SouperJim |
All games carry a risk of defeat. Isn't that why the game is played? I watch football to be entertained and to see my side win. Last night we attempted to do neither.
Many England fans get on their high horse and berate other nations for their diving, influencing the ref etc and put England up on a pedestal as some kind of moral authority on how the game should be played. What we did last night makes us look like massive hypocrites. |
I'm sorry, but you're not seeing the bigger picture. We had already qualified for the knock-out phase and last night's match was a dead rubber. The real business starts with the next match.
Southgate made a low-risk decision to make the changes that he did. There were many benefits to be gained in so doing and, as far as I can see, not a lot to lose.
I don't agree that we didn't attempt to win lat night. I will agree that it showed that we don't have the same strength in depth as Belgium.
I'm sorry, but I find your last paragraph to be little short of ridiculous. | | | |
| 8 changes last night on 10:30 - Jun 29 with 1597 views | Lord_Lucan |
Are people negative? I haven't read a lot about that.
I remain quite positive. I agree that it was wise to rest players (quite so many is up for debate maybe) the only thing that wrankles me is when people think it's a good thing that we finished 2nd. I'll never get my head around that. |  |
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| 8 changes last night on 10:35 - Jun 29 with 1590 views | SouperJim |
| 8 changes last night on 10:06 - Jun 29 by farkenhell |
I'm sorry, but you're not seeing the bigger picture. We had already qualified for the knock-out phase and last night's match was a dead rubber. The real business starts with the next match.
Southgate made a low-risk decision to make the changes that he did. There were many benefits to be gained in so doing and, as far as I can see, not a lot to lose.
I don't agree that we didn't attempt to win lat night. I will agree that it showed that we don't have the same strength in depth as Belgium.
I'm sorry, but I find your last paragraph to be little short of ridiculous. |
I understand what your bigger picture is, I just think that the benefits of resting players and finishing second are smaller than if we had won the game and topped the group. Also I didn't say the players on the pitch didn't attempt to win, Southgate just didn't do everything in his power to win the game. Or even most of the things.
The moral authority thing probably was a bit of a stretch though. | |
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| 8 changes last night on 10:45 - Jun 29 with 1570 views | farkenhell |
| 8 changes last night on 10:35 - Jun 29 by SouperJim |
I understand what your bigger picture is, I just think that the benefits of resting players and finishing second are smaller than if we had won the game and topped the group. Also I didn't say the players on the pitch didn't attempt to win, Southgate just didn't do everything in his power to win the game. Or even most of the things.
The moral authority thing probably was a bit of a stretch though. |
OK, point noted.
My 6-year old boy was still in bits this morning about last night's result. I tried to explain to him about "the bigger picture". Like you, I don't think he agreed with me though - he still had tears in his eyes when I dropped him off at school. Christ knows what he's going to be like when are knocked out! | | | |
| 8 changes last night on 10:53 - Jun 29 with 1556 views | SouperJim |
| 8 changes last night on 10:45 - Jun 29 by farkenhell |
OK, point noted.
My 6-year old boy was still in bits this morning about last night's result. I tried to explain to him about "the bigger picture". Like you, I don't think he agreed with me though - he still had tears in his eyes when I dropped him off at school. Christ knows what he's going to be like when are knocked out! |
Well I hope for his sake we see at least one more good result this tournament, I think quarter finals would be a decent return for a very young work-in-progress side. Lots to be optimistic about for the future, if we can avoid falling into the same old traps. | |
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| 8 changes last night on 11:23 - Jun 29 with 1532 views | BrixtonBlue |
| 8 changes last night on 10:45 - Jun 29 by farkenhell |
OK, point noted.
My 6-year old boy was still in bits this morning about last night's result. I tried to explain to him about "the bigger picture". Like you, I don't think he agreed with me though - he still had tears in his eyes when I dropped him off at school. Christ knows what he's going to be like when are knocked out! |
To be fair to him, he's 6! The rest of us are adults, we should be able to see what Southgate was doing and appreciate the logic behind it.
Onwards and upwards with a fully-fit, non-banned, extra days' prepped first team! |  |
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| 8 changes last night on 11:24 - Jun 29 with 1529 views | BrixtonBlue |
| 8 changes last night on 09:41 - Jun 29 by SouperJim |
And instead of celebrating the fact that we're through to the next round, here we are arguing about our approach and which team we'd rather be playing in the next two games. Resting so many players and trying to look too far ahead is to blame. Winning games of football breeds confidence. |
Can you imagine the outcry if Southgate had played Kane and he'd got injured? | |
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| 8 changes last night on 11:51 - Jun 29 with 1512 views | farkenhell |
| 8 changes last night on 11:23 - Jun 29 by BrixtonBlue |
To be fair to him, he's 6! The rest of us are adults, we should be able to see what Southgate was doing and appreciate the logic behind it.
Onwards and upwards with a fully-fit, non-banned, extra days' prepped first team! |
I couldn't agree more. However, as someone remarked on another thread, if it goes tits-up against Colombia, you just know people will be queueing up to blame it on the reserve team's loss to Belgium's reserves.
On that note and at that point, I might join the bandwagon if it will help stem the flow of Junior F's tears! | | | |
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