| Advice needed regarding probable falsified car service history 19:34 - Jan 8 with 2255 views | Vic |
My son bought a car about 18 months ago; it broke down after 12 days and had to be towed home by Green Flag. RAC diagnosed dry solder joints in the cash computer which would in all likelihood have been present at sale. He asked for his money back, garage refused and long story short it’s about to go to court.
Now - in looking at all his paperwork I’ve noticed that the last 5 entries in the service record are all stamped, with mileage and date by a garage associated wit( the selling garage. So far so good - (apart from all looking rather similar (same angle on the stamp, same pen used and same writing!) So I decided to look at the MOT certificates for those years. Interestingly these were done on exactly the same dates as the service stamps, with exactly the same mileage. But they were done at garages 100 miles apart!!
Seems pretty obvious to me that the selling garage filled in the services stamps, copying the MOT mileage to sell it as a car with a full service history.
Is this a criminal offence? Anyone know whether, after 18 months my lad has any consumer rights with the garage?
Advice, comments or suggestions welcome please! |  |
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| Advice needed regarding probable falsified car service history on 19:50 - Jan 8 with 2171 views | redrickstuhaart |
It is something to raise with DVLA / VOSPA.
And by all means mention it to the Court (but avoid outright assertions withotu clear evidence).
If it is actively done to deceive and sell a car, then it is probably fraud, but you need to prove that to a high standard, so unlikely to be worth being too bombastic about.
If you can demonstrate it is plainly not accurate, you probably have a misrepresentation argument. However....
The key is the Consumer Rights Act- Garage has to prove the fault (assuming its fairly significant and he sought to promptly reject) was NOT present when sold. That is not easy without some very good records. Clearly, if their records look questionable, it gets even harder. [Post edited 8 Jan 19:56]
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| Advice needed regarding probable falsified car service history on 20:17 - Jan 8 with 2026 views | Vic |
| Advice needed regarding probable falsified car service history on 19:50 - Jan 8 by redrickstuhaart |
It is something to raise with DVLA / VOSPA.
And by all means mention it to the Court (but avoid outright assertions withotu clear evidence).
If it is actively done to deceive and sell a car, then it is probably fraud, but you need to prove that to a high standard, so unlikely to be worth being too bombastic about.
If you can demonstrate it is plainly not accurate, you probably have a misrepresentation argument. However....
The key is the Consumer Rights Act- Garage has to prove the fault (assuming its fairly significant and he sought to promptly reject) was NOT present when sold. That is not easy without some very good records. Clearly, if their records look questionable, it gets even harder. [Post edited 8 Jan 19:56]
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MOT’d in one place and serviced in another, 100 miles away, with no extra miles on the clock, 5 years on the trot? Yeah right! I wonder what opinion the judge will form?
Im interested in what you say about the garage having to prove the fault was not present at sale. We’ve obviously combed the CRA and don’t seem to have clarity and various people have given conflicting advice! Are yo7 well enough versed to direct us to the relevent clause? | |
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| Advice needed regarding probable falsified car service history on 20:30 - Jan 8 with 1976 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Advice needed regarding probable falsified car service history on 20:17 - Jan 8 by Vic |
MOT’d in one place and serviced in another, 100 miles away, with no extra miles on the clock, 5 years on the trot? Yeah right! I wonder what opinion the judge will form?
Im interested in what you say about the garage having to prove the fault was not present at sale. We’ve obviously combed the CRA and don’t seem to have clarity and various people have given conflicting advice! Are yo7 well enough versed to direct us to the relevent clause? |
Its a horribly drafted piece of legislation. Hard to find your way around and full of cross references. Its at 19(14).
Though it is superceded by the short term right to reject at 20 in any event, and it sounds like you rejected nice and early. If short term right doesnt apply, then you have to give them 1 opportunity to repair.
I can't offer specifics without knowing far more detail, but that should give you the key places to look.
CAB has a nice flowcharty online thing. https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/buying-or-repairing-a-car/problems-wi | | | |
| Advice needed regarding probable falsified car service history on 20:43 - Jan 8 with 1914 views | bluelagos |
| Advice needed regarding probable falsified car service history on 20:17 - Jan 8 by Vic |
MOT’d in one place and serviced in another, 100 miles away, with no extra miles on the clock, 5 years on the trot? Yeah right! I wonder what opinion the judge will form?
Im interested in what you say about the garage having to prove the fault was not present at sale. We’ve obviously combed the CRA and don’t seem to have clarity and various people have given conflicting advice! Are yo7 well enough versed to direct us to the relevent clause? |
What sort of garage was it? They got a half decent reputation and/or any main franchise attached?
If they did...suspect they'd quickly back down if you shared your detective work. |  |
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| Advice needed regarding probable falsified car service history on 21:17 - Jan 8 with 1820 views | factual_blue |
| Advice needed regarding probable falsified car service history on 20:43 - Jan 8 by bluelagos |
What sort of garage was it? They got a half decent reputation and/or any main franchise attached?
If they did...suspect they'd quickly back down if you shared your detective work. |
Quite. In a civil case, the judge will draw the same perfectly reasonable inferences from your evidence that you have drawn. Whether you call the authorities before your civil action is up to you. I'd go ahead with your the civil case first. Assuming you're successful, write a press release and send to the local paper.
Good luck. |  |
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| Advice needed regarding probable falsified car service history on 01:48 - Jan 9 with 1606 views | Vic |
| Advice needed regarding probable falsified car service history on 20:43 - Jan 8 by bluelagos |
What sort of garage was it? They got a half decent reputation and/or any main franchise attached?
If they did...suspect they'd quickly back down if you shared your detective work. |
Independent garage, mixed reviews - let’s just say on some review sites it has less than 4*! TBH I think it’s very dodgy - they advertise cars are being RAC approved and being sold with an 80 pt check. Vic Jr didn’t get any paperwork about that and when contacted the RAC they said they are not one of their approved garages!
He’s so annoyed with himself for buying from them, but he'd just pranged his own car and it was going to take a while to fix. As a Jn Dr he needed something to get him to and from hospital 45 mins away and so went to his local garage. Pride at pranging his car stopped him from telling me what had happened, he tried to sort it himself so it’s a painful, and potentially costly lesson learnt for him.
Im reassured you and others assess things the same as we do. The papers for the civil case have been submitted, it’s due before the judge next month. I’m hoping they’ll see his witness statement and settle before - but so far they have been reluctant to play ball and enter a mediated settlement so Well just have to see.
Thanks for your advice, much appreciated | |
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| Advice needed regarding probable falsified car service history on 01:50 - Jan 9 with 1605 views | Vic |
| Advice needed regarding probable falsified car service history on 20:17 - Jan 8 by Vic |
MOT’d in one place and serviced in another, 100 miles away, with no extra miles on the clock, 5 years on the trot? Yeah right! I wonder what opinion the judge will form?
Im interested in what you say about the garage having to prove the fault was not present at sale. We’ve obviously combed the CRA and don’t seem to have clarity and various people have given conflicting advice! Are yo7 well enough versed to direct us to the relevent clause? |
Abuse reported? Really? I assume this was a case of fat thumbs from someone. | |
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| Advice needed regarding probable falsified car service history on 02:53 - Jan 9 with 1583 views | Vic |
| Advice needed regarding probable falsified car service history on 21:17 - Jan 8 by factual_blue |
Quite. In a civil case, the judge will draw the same perfectly reasonable inferences from your evidence that you have drawn. Whether you call the authorities before your civil action is up to you. I'd go ahead with your the civil case first. Assuming you're successful, write a press release and send to the local paper.
Good luck. |
That’s our plan - see what happens in the case then go to trading standards as a minimum. Without getting in touch with previous owners (which is difficult these days) I can’t prove the falsification of the record, but it looks to me to be beyond reasonable doubt. As I understand it Trading standards will bring a criminal case if there’s one to be brought. | |
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| Advice needed regarding probable falsified car service history on 11:20 - Jan 9 with 1301 views | factual_blue |
| Advice needed regarding probable falsified car service history on 02:53 - Jan 9 by Vic |
That’s our plan - see what happens in the case then go to trading standards as a minimum. Without getting in touch with previous owners (which is difficult these days) I can’t prove the falsification of the record, but it looks to me to be beyond reasonable doubt. As I understand it Trading standards will bring a criminal case if there’s one to be brought. |
You only need to show dodginess on the balance of probabilities. Trading Standards will do the criminality bit. | |
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| Advice needed regarding probable falsified car service history on 16:23 - Jan 9 with 1088 views | ronnyd |
| Advice needed regarding probable falsified car service history on 01:50 - Jan 9 by Vic |
Abuse reported? Really? I assume this was a case of fat thumbs from someone. |
Perhaps the garage owner posts on TWTD.  | | | |
| Advice needed regarding probable falsified car service history on 17:39 - Jan 9 with 1033 views | Churchman |
| Advice needed regarding probable falsified car service history on 01:48 - Jan 9 by Vic |
Independent garage, mixed reviews - let’s just say on some review sites it has less than 4*! TBH I think it’s very dodgy - they advertise cars are being RAC approved and being sold with an 80 pt check. Vic Jr didn’t get any paperwork about that and when contacted the RAC they said they are not one of their approved garages!
He’s so annoyed with himself for buying from them, but he'd just pranged his own car and it was going to take a while to fix. As a Jn Dr he needed something to get him to and from hospital 45 mins away and so went to his local garage. Pride at pranging his car stopped him from telling me what had happened, he tried to sort it himself so it’s a painful, and potentially costly lesson learnt for him.
Im reassured you and others assess things the same as we do. The papers for the civil case have been submitted, it’s due before the judge next month. I’m hoping they’ll see his witness statement and settle before - but so far they have been reluctant to play ball and enter a mediated settlement so Well just have to see.
Thanks for your advice, much appreciated |
It all sounds well dodgy to me and whilst I’m no expert, I’d have done what you’ve done. There are some interesting and useful points made from fellow posters on here too. The garage may see the writing on the wall and back down nearer the time. Here’s hoping.
As for your son, there are valuable (and costly) lessons to learn from this, but heck we all make mistakes. He is not the first and won’t be the last and shouldn’t beat himself up too much.
What’s done is done and you are sorting it out the best way you can. |  | | |
| Advice needed regarding probable falsified car service history on 21:13 - Jan 9 with 906 views | strikalite |
What's to stop the garage saying that they do the MOTs in one garage then for whatever reason put the car on a transporter and drive it over to the other garage for the service? We both know that would be bollox of course but difficult to argue against it....? |  | | |
| Advice needed regarding probable falsified car service history on 21:54 - Jan 9 with 857 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Advice needed regarding probable falsified car service history on 21:13 - Jan 9 by strikalite |
What's to stop the garage saying that they do the MOTs in one garage then for whatever reason put the car on a transporter and drive it over to the other garage for the service? We both know that would be bollox of course but difficult to argue against it....? |
What you do is put the questions to the garage's witness during the hearing.
Look at page X. What is the date and location on the mot. And on the service? Can you help me understand it? No?
Well perhaps its an error, lets look at another one.... Look at page Y.... | | | |
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