| More Hamas terrorists caught in the West Bank. on 08:56 - Dec 19 with 1673 views | DJR |
I think the IDF rules of engagement are that if it moves shoot it. But at least they don't discriminate, given that a fifth of IDF fatalities since the ground operation started are from friendly fire. |  | |  |
| More Hamas terrorists caught in the West Bank. on 09:31 - Dec 19 with 1597 views | positivity |
| More Hamas terrorists caught in the West Bank. on 08:56 - Dec 19 by DJR |
I think the IDF rules of engagement are that if it moves shoot it. But at least they don't discriminate, given that a fifth of IDF fatalities since the ground operation started are from friendly fire. |
a fifth?! so they're incompetent on top of everything else... |  |
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| More Hamas terrorists caught in the West Bank. on 09:38 - Dec 19 with 1575 views | MattinLondon |
| More Hamas terrorists caught in the West Bank. on 09:31 - Dec 19 by positivity |
a fifth?! so they're incompetent on top of everything else... |
I was always under the impression that Mossad and the IDF are amongst the best (and best equipped) in the world. I would have thought that all of that destruction and whole scale killing could have been limited. |  | | |
| More Hamas terrorists caught in the West Bank. on 09:58 - Dec 19 with 1507 views | Guthrum |
| More Hamas terrorists caught in the West Bank. on 09:31 - Dec 19 by positivity |
a fifth?! so they're incompetent on top of everything else... |
Tho the circumstances of very close quarters combat in a built up area mean there may be less than a second to decide whether the person you glimpse briefly is on your side, a civilian, or trying to kill you. Take too long to find out and you're dead.
You're hot, encumbered by equipment, surrounded by loud noises, adrenaline-pumped and afraid. Perhaps slightly disorientated and probably not entirely clear exactly where the enemy is. With shots flying past from an unclear direction and with no indication of whether hostile or your own people.
Friendly fire casualties are not at all uncommon in modern warfare. |  |
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| More Hamas terrorists caught in the West Bank. on 09:59 - Dec 19 with 1498 views | positivity |
| More Hamas terrorists caught in the West Bank. on 09:38 - Dec 19 by MattinLondon |
I was always under the impression that Mossad and the IDF are amongst the best (and best equipped) in the world. I would have thought that all of that destruction and whole scale killing could have been limited. |
same here.
although i guess the systemic failings that allowed the cross-border incursions from the hamas terrorists in the first place might given us a clue that netanyahu's incompetence has spread there too... | |
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| More Hamas terrorists caught in the West Bank. on 10:09 - Dec 19 with 1460 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| More Hamas terrorists caught in the West Bank. on 09:58 - Dec 19 by Guthrum |
Tho the circumstances of very close quarters combat in a built up area mean there may be less than a second to decide whether the person you glimpse briefly is on your side, a civilian, or trying to kill you. Take too long to find out and you're dead.
You're hot, encumbered by equipment, surrounded by loud noises, adrenaline-pumped and afraid. Perhaps slightly disorientated and probably not entirely clear exactly where the enemy is. With shots flying past from an unclear direction and with no indication of whether hostile or your own people.
Friendly fire casualties are not at all uncommon in modern warfare. |
And then there are the ones with SOS signs and calling out in Hebrew.
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| More Hamas terrorists caught in the West Bank. on 10:14 - Dec 19 with 1440 views | Guthrum |
| More Hamas terrorists caught in the West Bank. on 09:38 - Dec 19 by MattinLondon |
I was always under the impression that Mossad and the IDF are amongst the best (and best equipped) in the world. I would have thought that all of that destruction and whole scale killing could have been limited. |
But they are not supermen, neither are all the IDF's troops elite commandos.
No army fighting in a dense, largely urban situation like Gaza would be able to avoid destruction and killing on a massive scale. War is simply not a clean and surgical affair. Never has been.
Especially so when one side bases itself in the middle of a civilian population and cares little how many are "martyred" for their cause. If Hamas cared so much for the Gazans, they wouldn't have started this - anyone who thought the Israelis (especially under Netanyahu) wouldn't respond massively to a killing spree and the taking of hostages is a fool.
That having been said, Israel's rules of engagement are not particularly tight by Western military standards. They are using excessive aerial bombing (which is not even particularly effective in this kind of situation). | |
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| More Hamas terrorists caught in the West Bank. on 10:19 - Dec 19 with 1418 views | Guthrum |
| More Hamas terrorists caught in the West Bank. on 10:09 - Dec 19 by BanksterDebtSlave |
And then there are the ones with SOS signs and calling out in Hebrew.
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Even if they can see/hear it clearly, how does the bloke on the ground know that's not a ruse to lure them into an ambush? | |
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| More Hamas terrorists caught in the West Bank. on 10:36 - Dec 19 with 1371 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| More Hamas terrorists caught in the West Bank. on 10:19 - Dec 19 by Guthrum |
Even if they can see/hear it clearly, how does the bloke on the ground know that's not a ruse to lure them into an ambush? |
In the case of the third injured hostage who had crawled into a building they went looking for him and he was shot again despite his use of Hebrew. | |
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| More Hamas terrorists caught in the West Bank. on 10:40 - Dec 19 with 1346 views | WD19 |
| More Hamas terrorists caught in the West Bank. on 10:09 - Dec 19 by BanksterDebtSlave |
And then there are the ones with SOS signs and calling out in Hebrew.
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Probably code for a Hammas command centre. Probably best to raze it to the ground just to be sure.
Then bomb it some more. |  | | |
| More Hamas terrorists caught in the West Bank. on 10:54 - Dec 19 with 1327 views | Guthrum |
| More Hamas terrorists caught in the West Bank. on 10:36 - Dec 19 by BanksterDebtSlave |
In the case of the third injured hostage who had crawled into a building they went looking for him and he was shot again despite his use of Hebrew. |
That they shouldn't have done even with a wounded enemy.
However, you also have to think of their mindset. Suicide (or suicidal) attacks have been a regular part of Israeli life. What if you approach the wounded man - even speaking Hebrew - and they suddenly produce a grenade?
Cool rationality goes out of the window in these circumstances. That's why massacres happen, often sparked by wild rumours of civilians attacking troops or spying for the enemy.
BTW (referencing the OP), I'm not justifying the Israeli action, simply pointing out that horrific things do happen in war. Which is why the fighting in Gaza needs to stop ASAP, to save lives. But it won't, because of the hostages, because the international community is toothless due to its own rivalries and because Netanyahu is furious at being caught with his pants down (too busy suppressing the judiciary to stay out of prison and supporting his West Bank settler allies). | |
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| More Hamas terrorists caught in the West Bank. on 11:10 - Dec 19 with 1276 views | positivity |
| More Hamas terrorists caught in the West Bank. on 10:14 - Dec 19 by Guthrum |
But they are not supermen, neither are all the IDF's troops elite commandos.
No army fighting in a dense, largely urban situation like Gaza would be able to avoid destruction and killing on a massive scale. War is simply not a clean and surgical affair. Never has been.
Especially so when one side bases itself in the middle of a civilian population and cares little how many are "martyred" for their cause. If Hamas cared so much for the Gazans, they wouldn't have started this - anyone who thought the Israelis (especially under Netanyahu) wouldn't respond massively to a killing spree and the taking of hostages is a fool.
That having been said, Israel's rules of engagement are not particularly tight by Western military standards. They are using excessive aerial bombing (which is not even particularly effective in this kind of situation). |
agree 100%, the same goes the other way too.
if netanyahu cared so much for the israelis, they wouldn't have done any of this - anyone who thought that hamas (especially with iranian backing) wouldn't respond massively to a killing spree is a fool | |
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| More Hamas terrorists caught in the West Bank. on 11:11 - Dec 19 with 1270 views | DJR |
| More Hamas terrorists caught in the West Bank. on 10:14 - Dec 19 by Guthrum |
But they are not supermen, neither are all the IDF's troops elite commandos.
No army fighting in a dense, largely urban situation like Gaza would be able to avoid destruction and killing on a massive scale. War is simply not a clean and surgical affair. Never has been.
Especially so when one side bases itself in the middle of a civilian population and cares little how many are "martyred" for their cause. If Hamas cared so much for the Gazans, they wouldn't have started this - anyone who thought the Israelis (especially under Netanyahu) wouldn't respond massively to a killing spree and the taking of hostages is a fool.
That having been said, Israel's rules of engagement are not particularly tight by Western military standards. They are using excessive aerial bombing (which is not even particularly effective in this kind of situation). |
I think not particularly tight is an understatement given the following, the third article (mentioned in the second) being from a left wing Israeli website.
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/13/politics/intelligence-assessment-dumb-bombs-i
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/09/civilian-toll-israeli-airstrikes-g
https://www.972mag.com/mass-assassination-factory-israel-calculated-bombing-gaza | | | |
| More Hamas terrorists caught in the West Bank. on 11:21 - Dec 19 with 1232 views | WeWereZombies |
| More Hamas terrorists caught in the West Bank. on 10:54 - Dec 19 by Guthrum |
That they shouldn't have done even with a wounded enemy.
However, you also have to think of their mindset. Suicide (or suicidal) attacks have been a regular part of Israeli life. What if you approach the wounded man - even speaking Hebrew - and they suddenly produce a grenade?
Cool rationality goes out of the window in these circumstances. That's why massacres happen, often sparked by wild rumours of civilians attacking troops or spying for the enemy.
BTW (referencing the OP), I'm not justifying the Israeli action, simply pointing out that horrific things do happen in war. Which is why the fighting in Gaza needs to stop ASAP, to save lives. But it won't, because of the hostages, because the international community is toothless due to its own rivalries and because Netanyahu is furious at being caught with his pants down (too busy suppressing the judiciary to stay out of prison and supporting his West Bank settler allies). |
And that is why it is important for absolutely everyone in this World to be a pacifist and never get lured into warfare, the race and all the other species affected by us have far bigger problems coming up than religious differences or territorial battles. |  |
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| More Hamas terrorists caught in the West Bank. on 11:21 - Dec 19 with 1239 views | Guthrum |
| More Hamas terrorists caught in the West Bank. on 11:10 - Dec 19 by positivity |
agree 100%, the same goes the other way too.
if netanyahu cared so much for the israelis, they wouldn't have done any of this - anyone who thought that hamas (especially with iranian backing) wouldn't respond massively to a killing spree is a fool |
Indeed.
It's not like Netanyahu wasn't warned that giving settlers free rein and introducing restrictive measures at the Al-Aqsa Mosque was raising tensions massively.
Mind you, I don't believe that was the only reason Hamas attacked when they did. There were people further afield pulling strings, too. | |
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| More Hamas terrorists caught in the West Bank. on 11:23 - Dec 19 with 1228 views | Guthrum |
| More Hamas terrorists caught in the West Bank. on 11:21 - Dec 19 by WeWereZombies |
And that is why it is important for absolutely everyone in this World to be a pacifist and never get lured into warfare, the race and all the other species affected by us have far bigger problems coming up than religious differences or territorial battles. |
Indeed.
Tho some of the Israeli-Palestinian struggle (plus other tensions in the Middle East) comes down to water supplies. Which refers back to Climate Change and related issues. | |
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| More Hamas terrorists caught in the West Bank. on 12:11 - Dec 19 with 1156 views | Clapham_Junction |
| More Hamas terrorists caught in the West Bank. on 10:36 - Dec 19 by BanksterDebtSlave |
In the case of the third injured hostage who had crawled into a building they went looking for him and he was shot again despite his use of Hebrew. |
Many Palestinians speak Hebrew too. |  | | |
| More Hamas terrorists caught in the West Bank. on 12:53 - Dec 19 with 1109 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| More Hamas terrorists caught in the West Bank. on 12:11 - Dec 19 by Clapham_Junction |
Many Palestinians speak Hebrew too. |
I appreciate that but in the context of what had happened before this point.... | |
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| More Hamas terrorists caught in the West Bank. on 13:30 - Dec 19 with 1040 views | ronnyd |
| More Hamas terrorists caught in the West Bank. on 09:58 - Dec 19 by Guthrum |
Tho the circumstances of very close quarters combat in a built up area mean there may be less than a second to decide whether the person you glimpse briefly is on your side, a civilian, or trying to kill you. Take too long to find out and you're dead.
You're hot, encumbered by equipment, surrounded by loud noises, adrenaline-pumped and afraid. Perhaps slightly disorientated and probably not entirely clear exactly where the enemy is. With shots flying past from an unclear direction and with no indication of whether hostile or your own people.
Friendly fire casualties are not at all uncommon in modern warfare. |
Are conscripts a part of the IDF force? As if so, being there if you're not a professional soldier must be frightening.
Still far worse for the civilian population though. | | | |
| More Hamas terrorists caught in the West Bank. on 19:37 - Dec 19 with 812 views | Clapham_Junction |
| More Hamas terrorists caught in the West Bank. on 13:30 - Dec 19 by ronnyd |
Are conscripts a part of the IDF force? As if so, being there if you're not a professional soldier must be frightening.
Still far worse for the civilian population though. |
The vast majority of the Israeli army are conscripts. Men do service from 18-21, women from 18-20; only the ultra-orthodox and some Arab groups are exempted from service. People who did national service then become reserve soldiers until the age of 40 and many will have been called up for the current conflict. | | | |
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