| EFL - P&S Rules 07:25 - Apr 5 with 1309 views | pennblue |
Does anybody actually understand why Leicester can breach P&S Loss Limits but NOT get a points deduction?
Is it because they have not had 3 contiguous years in the Championship?
Here are the rules:
https://www.efl.com/governance/regulations/#heading-profitability-and-sustainabi
I suppose I am asking because if EFL + P&S mean basically nothing, ie. no points deductions, then why did we not just blow a load of cash in January? |  |
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| EFL - P&S Rules on 09:17 - Apr 5 with 1175 views | Guthrum |
I think the current issue is down to the Prem and the EFL being separate organisations. The question is whether the EFL can impose a penalty on behalf of the Prem, given the transgressions currently being talked about happened while playing in the latter's competition (i.e. the last three years up to June 2023).
If there was a national set of rules governed by the FA, then it wouldn't be a problem. But they'd likely also be bullied by the Prem into having an utterly lax system allowing big teams to get away with overspending. |  |
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| EFL - P&S Rules on 11:00 - Apr 5 with 1050 views | cooperd5 |
| EFL - P&S Rules on 09:17 - Apr 5 by Guthrum |
I think the current issue is down to the Prem and the EFL being separate organisations. The question is whether the EFL can impose a penalty on behalf of the Prem, given the transgressions currently being talked about happened while playing in the latter's competition (i.e. the last three years up to June 2023).
If there was a national set of rules governed by the FA, then it wouldn't be a problem. But they'd likely also be bullied by the Prem into having an utterly lax system allowing big teams to get away with overspending. |
hopefully the independent regulator will oversee this sort of thing.. |  | | |
| EFL - P&S Rules on 11:05 - Apr 5 with 1030 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| EFL - P&S Rules on 09:17 - Apr 5 by Guthrum |
I think the current issue is down to the Prem and the EFL being separate organisations. The question is whether the EFL can impose a penalty on behalf of the Prem, given the transgressions currently being talked about happened while playing in the latter's competition (i.e. the last three years up to June 2023).
If there was a national set of rules governed by the FA, then it wouldn't be a problem. But they'd likely also be bullied by the Prem into having an utterly lax system allowing big teams to get away with overspending. |
And that means that if there does continue to be the difference, deliberately breaking the rules would be gambling on promotion (or even more bizarrely in Leicester's situation, relegation) to avoid them. Something Derby and many others have shown can never be guaranteed (although nodge have shown the relegation one can be).
The other factor you appear to miss is that Leicester are still likely to get a points deduction just not this season. I can envisage a situation where they possibly get one in the Premier League if they go up and another one in the Championship after being relegated (but I doubt that would stand in the end). |  |
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| EFL - P&S Rules on 11:24 - Apr 5 with 1001 views | Guthrum |
| EFL - P&S Rules on 11:05 - Apr 5 by Nthsuffolkblue |
And that means that if there does continue to be the difference, deliberately breaking the rules would be gambling on promotion (or even more bizarrely in Leicester's situation, relegation) to avoid them. Something Derby and many others have shown can never be guaranteed (although nodge have shown the relegation one can be).
The other factor you appear to miss is that Leicester are still likely to get a points deduction just not this season. I can envisage a situation where they possibly get one in the Premier League if they go up and another one in the Championship after being relegated (but I doubt that would stand in the end). |
I think they'll probably be hit with both, as the excess spending works its way through the three-year cycle.
Also that legal challenges over juristiction may hold up punishment (at least until after the season is over), but not avoid it altogether. | |
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| EFL - P&S Rules on 11:45 - Apr 5 with 955 views | pennblue |
| EFL - P&S Rules on 11:05 - Apr 5 by Nthsuffolkblue |
And that means that if there does continue to be the difference, deliberately breaking the rules would be gambling on promotion (or even more bizarrely in Leicester's situation, relegation) to avoid them. Something Derby and many others have shown can never be guaranteed (although nodge have shown the relegation one can be).
The other factor you appear to miss is that Leicester are still likely to get a points deduction just not this season. I can envisage a situation where they possibly get one in the Premier League if they go up and another one in the Championship after being relegated (but I doubt that would stand in the end). |
But the point is, if they get a points deduction next season, that will still have allowed them to break the rules this season and potentially (if they get promoted) benefit from that fact.
I have this:
Broadly speaking, all Clubs are aware of the requirements set out within the EFL regulations and any breaches would be investigated accordingly.
As you can read on the EFL website here, as part of its continuing commitment to establish appropriate governance arrangements, the EFL created a separate department, the Club Financial Reporting Unit (or “CFRU”) to monitor and enforce the financial regulations member Clubs are required to follow. The team consists of qualified accountants and has been in place since March 2022. It acts independently of EFL Board influence or that from other parts of the EFL.
Where the CFRU considers there has been a breach of the Rules that cannot be resolved by a registration embargo, it can raise it to an external panel of experts, the Club Financial Review Panel (“CFRP”) for an independent determination.
So surely there has been a breach of the rules, and it should be referred to the CFRP, and there should naturally be a points deduction.
I think all Championship clubs should be making a lot of noise about this, because if it turns out that Leicester get promoted by breaching the rules, then it just isn't fair, and it makes a mockery of the rules. | |
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| EFL - P&S Rules on 13:38 - Apr 5 with 824 views | ElderGrizzly |
| EFL - P&S Rules on 11:00 - Apr 5 by cooperd5 |
hopefully the independent regulator will oversee this sort of thing.. |
The proposed regulator would have the power to apply financial review in real time, not at a season's end so clubs like Leicester would be penalised within the season.
Of course, the PL are pushing back against it. |  | | |
| EFL - P&S Rules on 13:57 - Apr 5 with 735 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| EFL - P&S Rules on 11:45 - Apr 5 by pennblue |
But the point is, if they get a points deduction next season, that will still have allowed them to break the rules this season and potentially (if they get promoted) benefit from that fact.
I have this:
Broadly speaking, all Clubs are aware of the requirements set out within the EFL regulations and any breaches would be investigated accordingly.
As you can read on the EFL website here, as part of its continuing commitment to establish appropriate governance arrangements, the EFL created a separate department, the Club Financial Reporting Unit (or “CFRU”) to monitor and enforce the financial regulations member Clubs are required to follow. The team consists of qualified accountants and has been in place since March 2022. It acts independently of EFL Board influence or that from other parts of the EFL.
Where the CFRU considers there has been a breach of the Rules that cannot be resolved by a registration embargo, it can raise it to an external panel of experts, the Club Financial Review Panel (“CFRP”) for an independent determination.
So surely there has been a breach of the rules, and it should be referred to the CFRP, and there should naturally be a points deduction.
I think all Championship clubs should be making a lot of noise about this, because if it turns out that Leicester get promoted by breaching the rules, then it just isn't fair, and it makes a mockery of the rules. |
That's the nature of crime and punishment, isn't it? A criminal only suffers the punishment once caught, investigated and found guilty. Until then the victims suffer and the criminal appears to be benefitting.
Similarly see suspensions due to red cards and accumulated bookings. | |
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| EFL - P&S Rules on 19:03 - Apr 5 with 579 views | MaySixth |
They will be getting a points deduction. |  |
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| EFL - P&S Rules on 20:59 - Apr 5 with 501 views | Pinewoodblue |
It seems to that Leicester set out to break the rules believing they were not watertight. While a club relegated from EPL has to agree to EFL regulations to be allowed into play in the Championship cannot see any reference to any punishment dealt out by EPL will automatically apply in EFL.
Leicester appear to have carried on in the EFL in much the same way they did in EPL despite the accumulative amount they could lose over 3 years being reduced from £105m to £83m. They also took the decision very late in the last financial year , late April, to end the financial year by one month. This presumably while adding an extra months wages also allowed some end of season sales to reduce th3 overall loss. The losses for 2021/22 & 2022/23 are around double the total amount they are permitted to lose in the 3 year period ending in 2024.
They need to make a massive profit this season to comply, the fact thr EFL have already imposed a transfer ban seems to make it abundantly clear the EFL knows they will be massively overspent.
Some expenditure doesn’t count towards th3 loss permitted.
I know how let down I would feel if Ipswich ever got themselves in such a mess. We could probably afforded to make bigger losses if we adopted the Leicester approach.
I feel very sorry for Leicester fans, it is always the fans who suffer. |  |
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| EFL - P&S Rules on 21:34 - Apr 5 with 458 views | Vegtablue |
| EFL - P&S Rules on 20:59 - Apr 5 by Pinewoodblue |
It seems to that Leicester set out to break the rules believing they were not watertight. While a club relegated from EPL has to agree to EFL regulations to be allowed into play in the Championship cannot see any reference to any punishment dealt out by EPL will automatically apply in EFL.
Leicester appear to have carried on in the EFL in much the same way they did in EPL despite the accumulative amount they could lose over 3 years being reduced from £105m to £83m. They also took the decision very late in the last financial year , late April, to end the financial year by one month. This presumably while adding an extra months wages also allowed some end of season sales to reduce th3 overall loss. The losses for 2021/22 & 2022/23 are around double the total amount they are permitted to lose in the 3 year period ending in 2024.
They need to make a massive profit this season to comply, the fact thr EFL have already imposed a transfer ban seems to make it abundantly clear the EFL knows they will be massively overspent.
Some expenditure doesn’t count towards th3 loss permitted.
I know how let down I would feel if Ipswich ever got themselves in such a mess. We could probably afforded to make bigger losses if we adopted the Leicester approach.
I feel very sorry for Leicester fans, it is always the fans who suffer. |
Leicester got promoted cheating FFP in 2013/14 as it happens; their greatest memories may never have been!
To Penn's point, unfortunately the CFRU may believe a registration embargo is sufficient, however unlikely it is that Leicester will take the steps necessary to become compliant by June 30th. The squad is valued at roughly £200M and they'll have two weeks in which to conclude their sales. Provision is sadly granted for early summer transfers to be counted in the previous season's financial reports, as was the case when Leicester sold Maddison early last summer. | | | |
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