| Let’s talk about the defence 10:15 - Nov 12 with 5215 views | GlasgowBlue |
But before we do, I’ll start by saying that although I’d have liked a crack at the play offs this year, I’d have be3n more than happy with mid table consolidation. We had spent four seasons in League One and to find ourselves joint top in November is beyond my wildest dreams.
Now back to the defence.
Hladky is top of the goal keeping charts on all metrics. He has been absolutely incredible. Yet we are conceding a lot of goals lately. Soft goals at that. Hladky has literally kept us in games all season. Some amazing point saving saves in every game.
This would suggest there is work to do with the defence.
Are we a little inexperienced at this level when it comes to our two central defenders? Woolfy and Burgess started this season so well, but there have been occasions when attackers have waltzed past the pair of them with ease. We saw this happen a few times last season. McKenna got very frustrated and dropped the pair of them for Fridge and Keogh.
I’d say that a fit Tuanzebe is the most experienced and best central defender we have by a country mile. Fridge also has Championship experience with Derby and has played in the pressure cooker of an old firm Derby. If Tuanzebe stays fit and Fridge can regain his firm of 2021 then they could emerge as the preferred pairing.
Or would KM consider going back to three at the back. Just to add that extra defensive cover? That could also solve the defensive frailties of Clarke and Davis, who look far better going forward than they do defending.
But that would mean taking out an attacking player. And attacking is our biggest strength. Do we dpsaxrifice scoring goals to avoid conceding goals?
I think this may well be a conversation McKenna will be having with his coaching staff over the international break.
Anyway. Not a moan. Just a topic of debate to open up.
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| Let’s talk about the defence on 19:00 - Nov 12 with 798 views | bluejacko |
Some good points made but we have conceded both early and late goals lately! Seems to me it could really be down to a lack of concentration more than anything else. |  | | |
| Let’s talk about the defence on 20:54 - Nov 12 with 745 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Let’s talk about the defence on 17:25 - Nov 12 by SomethingBlue |
I really see no evidence at this point that he's an upgrade on Woolfenden, who is playing out of his skin, or that he walks in anywhere! Michael Clegg had Premier League and Champions League experience too. Think we need to see Tuanzebe play some actual football first, which hasn't been a theme in his career. He doesn't have vast experience, assuming we're talking about the same player here? Hopefully we are the club where he gets on track and shows he's a top-quality operator – it'd be tremendous for us and I think he can do it – but there's no logic whatsoever for wishing him into the place of one of our best and most consistent players as things stand.
(Also worth noting that 23 of his 93 senior apps haven't been at CB – I'm really not dumping on the guy as he's clearly very good if we get him going but in my view there's quite a long way to go)
[Post edited 12 Nov 2023 17:39]
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I take on board your point regarding Axel's relative lack of experience. And Woolfy has been class for the past two seasons. There's a reason he's clled a Rolls Royce.
But I do think he can be a little laid back and lacks aggression. Which we need sometimes. We have it in midfield.
We do seem to concede a certain type of goal. The Rotherham equaliser reminded me of so many we conceded over the past two seasons. The ball bounces around in our box. We put in a few half hearted headers that don't get much further than the 'D' on the edge our our box, and an opposition player pounces on the ball before we can clear our lines and fires it in the back of the net.
We need to be more dominant in our own box and get that ball out of the danger area better. | |
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| Let’s talk about the defence on 21:09 - Nov 12 with 729 views | Vic |
| Let’s talk about the defence on 12:31 - Nov 12 by MK1 |
Can't defend for toffee. I am happy with the we will score more than you approach. Let's play.....
Hladky
Harness
Jackson
Hutchinson
Burns
Taylor
Chaplin
Hirst
Broadhead
Ladapo
Scarlett
Let's go all in. There is no way that WBA will be expecting that.
Or, just carry on as we are. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. |
Or, If it ain’t broke … …can we make it even better? |  |
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| Let’s talk about the defence on 21:47 - Nov 12 with 711 views | Rocky |
Perhaps another factor in our defensive record is that Kieran McKenna always tends to make like-for-like substitutes - Ladapo for Hirst, Harness for Chaplin or Broadhead etc. For instance, would he have been better served in defending a lead v Swansea by bringing on Luongo instead of Hirst or Broadhead, making us more solid? |  | | |
| Let’s talk about the defence on 22:40 - Nov 12 with 689 views | SheffordBlue |
| Let’s talk about the defence on 21:47 - Nov 12 by Rocky |
Perhaps another factor in our defensive record is that Kieran McKenna always tends to make like-for-like substitutes - Ladapo for Hirst, Harness for Chaplin or Broadhead etc. For instance, would he have been better served in defending a lead v Swansea by bringing on Luongo instead of Hirst or Broadhead, making us more solid? |
He's done that a few times (most notably Charlton away last season) and it hasn't often worked out. Even against Rotherham he brought on Ball in place of Chaplin and we conceded immediately.
Personally think making non-like for like subs causes more confusion to our patterns of play than it helps. | |
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| Let’s talk about the defence on 22:48 - Nov 12 with 676 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Let’s talk about the defence on 22:40 - Nov 12 by SheffordBlue |
He's done that a few times (most notably Charlton away last season) and it hasn't often worked out. Even against Rotherham he brought on Ball in place of Chaplin and we conceded immediately.
Personally think making non-like for like subs causes more confusion to our patterns of play than it helps. |
Has dom ball ever won a game with us? It just always seems like he comes on and first do what you're expecting him to do. V rotherham. He comes on. Heads the ball 2 yards out of the box in the lead up to their goal. He always makes me nervous.
I think our late subs should be
Jackson for Hirst. Keep the work rate up, high press and wouldn't allow opponents to breath at the back compared to freddie
Luongo for Chaplin, keep broady on to keep the ball. Allow luongo to sit deep and let taylor stay forward to be the other holder.
Clarke/williams/humpreys for fullback swapping |  |
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| Let’s talk about the defence on 05:44 - Nov 13 with 647 views | ibbleobble |
I think you’ve missed the biggest point. The reason we score so many goals is that we commit a lot of bodies forward, which comes at the expense of defending. Defending is a responsibility of everyone all over the pitch with and without the ball so rather than think of straight swaps to solve the ‘problem’ I think it’s more about how we’re using the ball and defending without the ball in different areas of the field or transitions of play.
On the other point, I thought the days of ‘accepting mid-table consolidation’ died when we came back up. Let’s not harp back to that; let’s be more ambitious and always demand better. [Post edited 13 Nov 2023 6:24]
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| Let’s talk about the defence on 10:08 - Nov 13 with 577 views | gosblue |
The early goal was mostly down to Hirst and Broadhead ball watching. We had enough bodies in there. I think the problem is that we believe we are the only team in this league that is doing their homework. Also, we believe we will score more than the opposition. We struggle against teams whose managers know us well. Now we have played 16 games, teams have had plenty of time to work us out. What would you say to your lads if you were the opposition gaffer.
I’d be saying - we can’t match them for fitness for 90 minutes so let’s get at them for 20 minutes and nick an early goal. Then we set up 2 banks of 4 and do that right and hit them on the counter with width and pace as they leave 2 at the back. They try to play through Morsey so stop him and Davis playing. We’ll have another go at them for 10 minutes after half time, then again for the last 20 minutes with the subs.
That was exactly what happened last season and has started to happen again this season with teams playing a high press for short periods of the game. The big difference between us and Swansea was transition. They had periods of possession for 2 or 3 minutes at a time without really threatening whereas whenever we got the ball in our defensive third, within 10 seconds we were in and around their box. That needs to continue but we need to maintain better defensive shape at the same time.
Donacien was awesome at knowing when to go and when to stay and that comes from leadership at the back. | | | |
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| Let’s talk about the defence on 10:29 - Nov 13 with 566 views | BiGDonnie |
Would you still be happy with midtable after this start? |  |
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| Let’s talk about the defence on 10:37 - Nov 13 with 560 views | Reus30 |
| Let’s talk about the defence on 15:40 - Nov 12 by pointofblue |
I think Williams and Burns coming back will strengthen us to a degree. Felt a bit for Woolfenden yesterday; watching a replay, he had a similar defensive situation with Lowe in the 78th minute. Morsy supported him, and they handled it well. Would still blame Clarke as much as, if not more than, Woolfenden for the second goal.
Watching back we didn't really concede many chances other than the two goals and, other than those aforementioned goals, we marshalled Lowe - their only real threat - very well. |
Burns 100% - he covers that right hand side and is an engine up and down.
Whilst Omari is great going forward and really good at pressing high, he doesn't come all the way back like we have seen with Wes do and to a certain extent, KJ.
We do leave our CBs exposed or 1v1 which is probably why Morsy has been eating cards but at the same time, concentration is sometimes an issue.
I expect this to be ironed out after the break, the gaffer was not a happy chappy! |  | | |
| Let’s talk about the defence on 10:41 - Nov 13 with 557 views | BiGDonnie |
| Let’s talk about the defence on 12:37 - Nov 12 by Herbivore |
Agree with that except the finishing 8th bit. If we finish 8th we'll have only picked up around 30 or so points from our remaining 30 games and that kind of prolonged poor form won't give us a great springboard for the summer and next season. I don't expect us to sustain the form we're in currently - although I wouldn't completely rule it out either based on what McKenna has achieved here to date - but I also don't foresee us collapsing to the extent we're picking up a point a game for the rest of the season. Play offs has to be the minimum expectation now, imo, purely because our first 16 games have been so strong that it would take a monumental collapse for us to miss out on the top 6. We will likely only need another 36 points from our remaining 30 games, the same number of points we took from our opening 15 games. |
They wouldn't have been 'excellent additions' if we finish 8th either. | |
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| Let’s talk about the defence on 10:47 - Nov 13 with 535 views | Mookamoo |
| Let’s talk about the defence on 12:31 - Nov 12 by MK1 |
Can't defend for toffee. I am happy with the we will score more than you approach. Let's play.....
Hladky
Harness
Jackson
Hutchinson
Burns
Taylor
Chaplin
Hirst
Broadhead
Ladapo
Scarlett
Let's go all in. There is no way that WBA will be expecting that.
Or, just carry on as we are. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. |
Hladky
Burns Hirst Taylor Broadhead
Harness Chaplin
Jackson Hutchinson Scarlett
Ladapo
That would work. Burns can play RB, Broadhead can motor up and down much like Davis. Hirst and Taylor at the back can put themselves about a bit. Harness and Chaplin are good enough footballers to play midfield. Hutchinson in the No10 role would be interesting.
Go for it. |  | | |
| Let’s talk about the defence on 11:12 - Nov 13 with 498 views | BseaBlue |
| Let’s talk about the defence on 05:44 - Nov 13 by ibbleobble |
I think you’ve missed the biggest point. The reason we score so many goals is that we commit a lot of bodies forward, which comes at the expense of defending. Defending is a responsibility of everyone all over the pitch with and without the ball so rather than think of straight swaps to solve the ‘problem’ I think it’s more about how we’re using the ball and defending without the ball in different areas of the field or transitions of play.
On the other point, I thought the days of ‘accepting mid-table consolidation’ died when we came back up. Let’s not harp back to that; let’s be more ambitious and always demand better. [Post edited 13 Nov 2023 6:24]
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Quite right! I think we have to accept that our expansive football will leave holes and opportunites for the opposition, but we have enough about us to ensure we out score other teams. There will be times where this wont work (Like Rotherham which included some poor officiating) but its exciting and we are level on points with top of the league!
I know he can make mistakes (and I have been critical of him in past seasons for his defensive duties) but for me, Wolfie has been the most consistent outfield player this season. Personally, he would be the first name on the team sheet for me.
I think we have looked a bit frail in the right back area with Clarke playing there, but to be honest I don't think he has looked fully fit, so would be harsh to start pointing blame.
I'd quite like to see us play Wolfie in the hybrid central defensive/ CDM role that Stones plays for City, with Axel and Burgess behind him, but then we are joint top of the league so can't see KMAC piddling about with it at this time. |  | | |
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