| North Sea oil 09:52 - Aug 1 with 5515 views | Cotty |
What the feck are we doing??! |  | | |  |
| North Sea oil on 15:02 - Aug 3 with 463 views | lowhouseblue |
| North Sea oil on 12:15 - Aug 3 by jayessess |
Like I say, just airily saying that people should behave differently is not meaningfully a mechanism for change when you're talking about global scale problems in complex societies.
And it's a massive cop out to say it's not worth confronting any of the power structures that shape global human society because it's all just individuals choosing to do stuff. |
clearly governments need to take the lead. coordination and compulsion are important - individual decisions won't be enough. but the outcome is still that the middle classes in the rich west must consume less. societies are indeed complex and the issue is global but it is also the cumulative consequence of what we do individually. no one is forced to fly around the world etc. over generations we (the middle classes in the rich west) have invented systems that have provided what we wanted, and individually we have all gone along with it and benefitted hugely from an unprecedented standard of living which, alas, is simply unsustainable. unless that's recognised at an individual level there will kick back against any government led attempt to make us change. for example, if you fly more than 1 short haul return journey every 3 years and 1 long haul return journey every 8 years that's a choice - you can't blame the airlines or the oil companies. saying it's all the fault of marketing and profits gets us no where. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| North Sea oil on 16:38 - Aug 3 with 399 views | HotShotHamish |
| North Sea oil on 10:23 - Aug 1 by NthQldITFC |
We've accepted that we won't sacrifice our luxuries in order to prevent the collapse of climate systems, food and water supplies, law and order, civil society, international peace and natural ecosystems.
We've then taken the arguably rational if immoral and defeatist position of maximising pretty meaningless personal and corporate wealth in a dying and blindingly obviously incompatible growth-focussed economic system.
We don't care.
We've given up, whilst trying to pretend we haven't.
We're dead.
And that's what we're passing on to our children.
...except there's still a chance to make some potentially beneficial changes if we all just face up to the fact that we have to live far, far, far more frugally, and co-incidentally more happily. |
Try telling that to those who already live frugally. There are billions of people on this planet that have a standard of life lower than that experieced by the working classes in Victorian times, how do those people live more frugally?
Your statement is complete nonsense written by someone from a western democracy who almost definitely is not living under the poverty line.
Most western countries have done an awful lot to reduce carbon emmisions - the easy wins have been taken. It would make far more sense to stop virtue signalling to the world and concentrate our resources on helping those in developing countries. It makes no sense at all to spend billions making what will amount to tiny changes in the worlds carbon emmissions when we could be spending that money in developing countries which will then have a far more positive effect.
Most of your post is alarmist nonsense and just the rhetoric that puts people off making any changes. |  | | |
| North Sea oil on 17:20 - Aug 3 with 358 views | NthQldITFC |
| North Sea oil on 16:38 - Aug 3 by HotShotHamish |
Try telling that to those who already live frugally. There are billions of people on this planet that have a standard of life lower than that experieced by the working classes in Victorian times, how do those people live more frugally?
Your statement is complete nonsense written by someone from a western democracy who almost definitely is not living under the poverty line.
Most western countries have done an awful lot to reduce carbon emmisions - the easy wins have been taken. It would make far more sense to stop virtue signalling to the world and concentrate our resources on helping those in developing countries. It makes no sense at all to spend billions making what will amount to tiny changes in the worlds carbon emmissions when we could be spending that money in developing countries which will then have a far more positive effect.
Most of your post is alarmist nonsense and just the rhetoric that puts people off making any changes. |
I should have thought it was blindingly obvious that I was talking about the better off living more frugally. I mean, blindingly obvious.
I'm in favour a massive redistribution of wealth from the rich to the poor, coupled with putting a big brake on consumption by the human population as a whole.
'Most western countries have done an awful lot to reduce carbon emmisions' - Bullsh!t!
The reality of the situation might be frightening, but if we all grew up a bit and accepted that we can't go on as we are (particularly your Western democracies) we could give ourselves a fighting chance of at least mitigating the damage. |  |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
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| North Sea oil on 17:27 - Aug 3 with 341 views | CoachRob |
| North Sea oil on 16:38 - Aug 3 by HotShotHamish |
Try telling that to those who already live frugally. There are billions of people on this planet that have a standard of life lower than that experieced by the working classes in Victorian times, how do those people live more frugally?
Your statement is complete nonsense written by someone from a western democracy who almost definitely is not living under the poverty line.
Most western countries have done an awful lot to reduce carbon emmisions - the easy wins have been taken. It would make far more sense to stop virtue signalling to the world and concentrate our resources on helping those in developing countries. It makes no sense at all to spend billions making what will amount to tiny changes in the worlds carbon emmissions when we could be spending that money in developing countries which will then have a far more positive effect.
Most of your post is alarmist nonsense and just the rhetoric that puts people off making any changes. |
The classic Bjorn Lomborg nonsense that we can adapt our way out of the climate and ecological crisis. All of what NthQldITFC stated is in the IPCC AR6 synthesis report which happens to include a piece on mal-adaptation. The best way to help those in the Global South is rapid mitigation of GHG's due to the nonlinear impacts of rising temperatures.
I think it is clear you have a deep distrust of scientists and seem to want to believe the anti-science peddled by cranks and grifters. I usually find people who hold these views to be religiously pro-capitalist - you seem to be pointing out what a crap job it does of allocating resources. |  | | |
| North Sea oil on 17:44 - Aug 3 with 331 views | Ryorry |
| North Sea oil on 17:27 - Aug 3 by CoachRob |
The classic Bjorn Lomborg nonsense that we can adapt our way out of the climate and ecological crisis. All of what NthQldITFC stated is in the IPCC AR6 synthesis report which happens to include a piece on mal-adaptation. The best way to help those in the Global South is rapid mitigation of GHG's due to the nonlinear impacts of rising temperatures.
I think it is clear you have a deep distrust of scientists and seem to want to believe the anti-science peddled by cranks and grifters. I usually find people who hold these views to be religiously pro-capitalist - you seem to be pointing out what a crap job it does of allocating resources. |
I assume it's HotShotH's second & last paragraphs that you're objecting to, as his first and third paras do make sense imho. |  |
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