| ULEZ.... 08:12 - Jul 21 with 7711 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Considering that 90% of Londoners will be better off.... that's one strange result!
"Yet 90% of people within the ULEZ don't have to pay anything and get the benefit of less air pollution.
So clearly the average bod within the ULEZ is benefitting given they don't pay." |  |
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| ULEZ.... on 20:46 - Jul 21 with 1747 views | Lord_Lucan |
| ULEZ.... on 19:32 - Jul 21 by HARRY10 |
You don't need to read the Mail when there's this paranoid rightie stuff.
If you carry a phone about with you, this supposed big brother kns exactly where you are every minute of the day. If you pay by card or phone he also knows what you have bought/paid for, where and exactly when.
90% of cars will not be affected. Cameras that monitor your road usage in these areas have long been in use, just as they are in every major shopping area, pub shop, petrol station etc.
Of course the real sheep are those that spout whatever their betters tell them, unquestionably. It was the same rightie paranoia that told us the smoking ban in public buildings would soon criminalise smoking itself. It would kill off pubs, theatres football grounds, even trains. I suspect they were bleating out the same paranoia when the move to end smog in London as introduced.
So why would 'their betters' want to over excite their sheep. Because they always have had a convenient scapegoat at hand, when needed. Perhaps these paranoids might wish to vent their anger at the man who suggest all this. That big brother (well big, in the sense of fat), one Boris Johnson.
"The Mayor of London, Boris Johnson, said: “The world’s first Ultra Low Emission Zone is an essential measure to help improve air quality in our city, protect the health of Londoners, and lengthen our lead as the greatest city on earth. Together we can ensure everyone who lives, works in, or visits our city has the cleanest possible air to breathe.”
"Prime Minister David Cameron said: “I welcome this announcement which is a world first and great news for London, helping to enhance the quality of life " |
I can't be arsed to pick your heap of waffle apart but I have one question.
If you have a partner and you both have a bit of a row over something trivial, say maybe you want an Indian and she wants a Chinese.
Do you stomp your feet and call her / him / they / a big Rightie?
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| ULEZ.... on 20:47 - Jul 21 with 1744 views | Swansea_Blue |
| ULEZ.... on 10:17 - Jul 21 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I think it is the narrative that rich w@nkers driving Tesla's are going to save us while public transport remains unaffordable is what people have had enough of. |
Probably better than rich w@nkers driving luxury 4x4s! |  |
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| ULEZ.... on 21:30 - Jul 21 with 1714 views | DJR |
These reputed words by Starmer come from the John Crace in the Guardian, and made me laugh.
“I am also immensely encouraged by our failure to win Uxbridge. For too long, Labour has been seen as the party of the liberal metropolitan elite. This result proves we have broadened our appeal and can also lose in our heartlands. Even when we’re fighting in a constituency whose previous incumbent was the second worst prime minister ever.
“A word on the campaign. I am proud of the way we fought. It would have been all too easy to have said that the Ulez charge was a Tory creation which was forced on Sadiq Khan by Grant Shapps when he was transport secretary. But that’s not who we, as Labour, are. We are much more half-witted than that. So we just said nothing about Ulez and hoped nobody would notice. But never mind. There’s always next time. Hopefully everyone affected by Ulez will have calmed down by the general election.” |  | | |
| ULEZ.... on 01:12 - Jul 22 with 1672 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| ULEZ.... on 15:07 - Jul 21 by StokieBlue |
How many people are driving from zone 4 to zone 1? That would involve paying for petrol, congestion charge and parking and that's before you talk about the yearly cost of insurance, tax and maintenance.
The cap for a Zone 4 to Zone 1 for a day is 11.70 GBP. Cheaper than using a car in most circumstances and also a lot easier and probably faster. I believe there are also concessions for key workers. That's also the maximum price if you make more than the simple return journey which seems to be 8 GBP.
It would be nice if rather than obfuscating or ignoring points you could answer why public transport in London is the issue here?
SB [Post edited 21 Jul 2023 15:15]
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You do realise that people who can't afford cars need public transport to be cheaper than driving a car don't you? Thanks for confirming your disconnect from what is "affordable."
Edit.... https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/london-tube-crime-underground-tfl-fare
It came as Transport for London admitted it was losing £130m a year due to fare dodging – with one in 25 passengers not paying to travel. [Post edited 22 Jul 2023 1:21]
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| ULEZ.... on 01:17 - Jul 22 with 1670 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| ULEZ.... on 20:47 - Jul 21 by Swansea_Blue |
Probably better than rich w@nkers driving luxury 4x4s! |
Why on earth would you prefer a really smug rich w@nker to a smug rich w@nker? | |
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| ULEZ.... on 07:21 - Jul 22 with 1625 views | ElephantintheRoom |
Alternatively consider the fact that 100% of people are hit by the decision that makes deliveries something of a nightmare - puts up prices for everyone and threatens many businesses with closure. Just to make an expensive political point |  |
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| ULEZ.... on 08:25 - Jul 22 with 1591 views | DJR |
Interesting to note, with Labour blaming ULEZ for its defeat in Uxbridge and throwing Sadiq Khan under a bus (as Lewis Goodall on LBC put it), that the focus on the Today Programme this morning is now green issues.
Instead, Labour should have just said that they had never held Uxbridge which might have meant that the focus on the Today Programme was their astounding victory in Selby. Indeed, I am not wholly convinced ULEZ was the sole reason for their defeat anyway.
Adopting the approach they have appears to me to play into the Tories' hands because it will enable the Tories to further engage in the culture wars against green "crap". And with the timidity of Labour, it will merely mean they start to backtrack on the one issue where they appear to have shown some vision with their green investment plans. [Post edited 22 Jul 2023 8:26]
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| ULEZ.... on 08:28 - Jul 22 with 1577 views | GlasgowBlue |
| ULEZ.... on 07:21 - Jul 22 by ElephantintheRoom |
Alternatively consider the fact that 100% of people are hit by the decision that makes deliveries something of a nightmare - puts up prices for everyone and threatens many businesses with closure. Just to make an expensive political point |
Not sure why your post warranted a down vote.
I’m actually in favour of anything that reduces air pollution. Too many people die each year due to its effects.
However, you have explained supplier costs involved from ULEZ that are passed down to consumers and also the fact that some small businesses rely on passing traffic that will now reduce due to the scheme. Customers speak to small businesses. Those small business owners will point out the impact of ULEZ and that may affect how that customer may vote.
Nothing wrong in openly discussing the negative effects in a grown up manner. [Post edited 22 Jul 2023 9:33]
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| ULEZ.... on 08:29 - Jul 22 with 1577 views | StokieBlue |
| ULEZ.... on 01:12 - Jul 22 by BanksterDebtSlave |
You do realise that people who can't afford cars need public transport to be cheaper than driving a car don't you? Thanks for confirming your disconnect from what is "affordable."
Edit.... https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/london-tube-crime-underground-tfl-fare
It came as Transport for London admitted it was losing £130m a year due to fare dodging – with one in 25 passengers not paying to travel. [Post edited 22 Jul 2023 1:21]
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You're being disingenuous.
I've already shown it's cheaper than driving a car.
Honestly, these constant attempts to score points are becoming embarrassing, you should give it a rest.
SB [Post edited 22 Jul 2023 8:40]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| ULEZ.... on 09:25 - Jul 22 with 1531 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| ULEZ.... on 08:25 - Jul 22 by DJR |
Interesting to note, with Labour blaming ULEZ for its defeat in Uxbridge and throwing Sadiq Khan under a bus (as Lewis Goodall on LBC put it), that the focus on the Today Programme this morning is now green issues.
Instead, Labour should have just said that they had never held Uxbridge which might have meant that the focus on the Today Programme was their astounding victory in Selby. Indeed, I am not wholly convinced ULEZ was the sole reason for their defeat anyway.
Adopting the approach they have appears to me to play into the Tories' hands because it will enable the Tories to further engage in the culture wars against green "crap". And with the timidity of Labour, it will merely mean they start to backtrack on the one issue where they appear to have shown some vision with their green investment plans. [Post edited 22 Jul 2023 8:26]
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I agree with all of that. Labour need to actually make a policy offering to the less well off which needs to include how to make a green agenda socially just. Promising more of the same is far from inspiring to say the very least. | |
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| ULEZ.... on 09:43 - Jul 22 with 1516 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| ULEZ.... on 08:29 - Jul 22 by StokieBlue |
You're being disingenuous.
I've already shown it's cheaper than driving a car.
Honestly, these constant attempts to score points are becoming embarrassing, you should give it a rest.
SB [Post edited 22 Jul 2023 8:40]
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"I've already shown it's cheaper than driving a car."
When did you decide that was the debate? And anyway, good luck with getting tools on the tube if that is what your work requires. Or if you are a cleaner, care worker or midwife needing to get to several locations every day thus needing their own transport. Also 2 or 3 people sharing use of a second hand vehicle costing a few hundred pounds might disagree.
"Public transport in London is excellent and pretty affordable in general."
If you had to pay an hour's wage to get pretty much anywhere in London and back as anyone on minimum/low wage does would you regard that as affordable?
I in 25 users at the very least would disagree.
We initially disagreed about whether ULEZ "disproportionately affects the poorest in society." Do you still disagree, or is it the rich/middle classes that are really suffering here? [Post edited 22 Jul 2023 9:45]
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| ULEZ.... on 11:10 - Jul 22 with 1481 views | StokieBlue |
| ULEZ.... on 09:43 - Jul 22 by BanksterDebtSlave |
"I've already shown it's cheaper than driving a car."
When did you decide that was the debate? And anyway, good luck with getting tools on the tube if that is what your work requires. Or if you are a cleaner, care worker or midwife needing to get to several locations every day thus needing their own transport. Also 2 or 3 people sharing use of a second hand vehicle costing a few hundred pounds might disagree.
"Public transport in London is excellent and pretty affordable in general."
If you had to pay an hour's wage to get pretty much anywhere in London and back as anyone on minimum/low wage does would you regard that as affordable?
I in 25 users at the very least would disagree.
We initially disagreed about whether ULEZ "disproportionately affects the poorest in society." Do you still disagree, or is it the rich/middle classes that are really suffering here? [Post edited 22 Jul 2023 9:45]
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"When did you decide that was the debate?"
"You do realise that people who can't afford cars need public transport to be cheaper than driving a car don't you? "
It was literally a point you raised.
Given you're being disingenuous with your responses I'll bid you good day.
SB [Post edited 22 Jul 2023 11:12]
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| ULEZ.... on 11:39 - Jul 22 with 1458 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| ULEZ.... on 11:10 - Jul 22 by StokieBlue |
"When did you decide that was the debate?"
"You do realise that people who can't afford cars need public transport to be cheaper than driving a car don't you? "
It was literally a point you raised.
Given you're being disingenuous with your responses I'll bid you good day.
SB [Post edited 22 Jul 2023 11:12]
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Yes let's just say that you are correct in everything you say and leave it there then. Good day. | |
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| ULEZ.... on 12:50 - Jul 22 with 1423 views | Nomore4 |
| ULEZ.... on 11:39 - Jul 22 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Yes let's just say that you are correct in everything you say and leave it there then. Good day. |
I’ve said many times…. It’s what’s happening inside the ULEZ that’s the problem.
20mph zones. Cameras for speed. Cameras at pedestrian crossings. Cameras at traffic lights. Cameras at bus lanes. Cameras at cycle lanes. Cameras on parking spots. Cameras on yellow box junctions. Cameras for ULEZ enforcement. Etc Etc.
Paying the ULEZ charge is the cheap and easy bit. Coming out without a fine for something else is the hard bit. | | | |
| ULEZ.... on 13:10 - Jul 22 with 1403 views | giant_stow |
| ULEZ.... on 12:50 - Jul 22 by Nomore4 |
I’ve said many times…. It’s what’s happening inside the ULEZ that’s the problem.
20mph zones. Cameras for speed. Cameras at pedestrian crossings. Cameras at traffic lights. Cameras at bus lanes. Cameras at cycle lanes. Cameras on parking spots. Cameras on yellow box junctions. Cameras for ULEZ enforcement. Etc Etc.
Paying the ULEZ charge is the cheap and easy bit. Coming out without a fine for something else is the hard bit. |
When the 20mph first came in I too found it really hard to stick to them, but over time, you basically get conditioned to a slower pace / more sedate driving style. I've had no tickets (bar being done for a dodgy right hand turn) so it is possible - just drive fast on motorways now. |  |
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| ULEZ.... on 14:01 - Jul 22 with 1374 views | DJR |
| ULEZ.... on 08:25 - Jul 22 by DJR |
Interesting to note, with Labour blaming ULEZ for its defeat in Uxbridge and throwing Sadiq Khan under a bus (as Lewis Goodall on LBC put it), that the focus on the Today Programme this morning is now green issues.
Instead, Labour should have just said that they had never held Uxbridge which might have meant that the focus on the Today Programme was their astounding victory in Selby. Indeed, I am not wholly convinced ULEZ was the sole reason for their defeat anyway.
Adopting the approach they have appears to me to play into the Tories' hands because it will enable the Tories to further engage in the culture wars against green "crap". And with the timidity of Labour, it will merely mean they start to backtrack on the one issue where they appear to have shown some vision with their green investment plans. [Post edited 22 Jul 2023 8:26]
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It's much worse than I thought given these words from Starmer in the light of the Uxbridge loss.
“We are doing something very wrong if policies put forward by the Labour party end up on each and every Tory leaflet. We’ve got to face up to that and learn the lessons.”
So not only is he throwing Khan under a bus, and at the same time completely undermining localism, he is now suggesting the only policies that Labour can put forward are those that will not be attacked by the Tories.
The logical outcome of this is that Labour need to adopt only Tory policies, because the Tories will attack, or distort, non-Tory policies whatever they are.
I despair.
EDIT: I have mentioned elsewhere that I didn't think the Uxbridge result was necessarily just down to ULEZ, so interesting to hear that Ben Kentish on LBC also thinks the same. He visited Uxbridge during the campaign and found virtually no enthusiasm for the Labour offering. But blaming ULEZ, and throwing Sadiq Khan under a bus, avoids difficult questions about Labour's offering more generally, especially in the south. [Post edited 22 Jul 2023 19:13]
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| ULEZ.... on 09:08 - Jul 30 with 1020 views | Herbivore |
| ULEZ.... on 11:39 - Jul 22 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Yes let's just say that you are correct in everything you say and leave it there then. Good day. |
I would say that he's correct about public transport in London generally being cheaper than running a car, particularly an old one that is going to cost a fair whack in repairs and maintenance over the course of a year. Last car I owned I worked out that factoring in fuel, insurance, tax, MOT, and servicing/maintenance cost me about £200-250 a month and that was using it a couple of times a week at most, not daily, annual mileage under 5k. You're a bit out of touch if you think a trades person who needs to lug their tools around qualifies as a low earner these days. There are undoubtedly some low earners who will be affected by ULEZ but the focus should be on targeted support for them, not on scrapping a scheme designed to improve air quality and reduce emissions. |  |
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| ULEZ.... on 09:16 - Jul 30 with 1016 views | wischip |
Another side effect of ULEZ roll out near me is that ULEZ compliant cars are getting their registration plates stolen at night presumably to put on non-compliant vehicles. Someone near me went into Halfords to get new plates and the staff told him he was the 4th customer that day replacing stolen plates. Looks like ULEZ plates is the new crime category, easier to pinch than catalytic converters. |  | | |
| ULEZ.... on 09:20 - Jul 30 with 1009 views | Herbivore |
That's the sort of scheme we need. Although ultimately if we are serious about climate change we also need to be phasing out private car ownership. Electric cars, their production and ongoing use and maintenance, are still polluting. Money needs to go into massively improving the quality, coverage and cost of public transport. | |
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| ULEZ.... on 09:44 - Jul 30 with 991 views | eireblue |
I am slightly surprised that Labour didn’t do one of those Twitter attack ads that it liked a while back.
Rishi doesn’t care about your child’s health. [Post edited 30 Jul 2023 9:44]
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| ULEZ.... on 10:39 - Jul 30 with 965 views | ronnyd |
| ULEZ.... on 13:10 - Jul 22 by giant_stow |
When the 20mph first came in I too found it really hard to stick to them, but over time, you basically get conditioned to a slower pace / more sedate driving style. I've had no tickets (bar being done for a dodgy right hand turn) so it is possible - just drive fast on motorways now. |
Do they have motorways in Norfolk Ulla?  | | | |
| ULEZ.... on 10:46 - Jul 30 with 942 views | ronnyd |
| ULEZ.... on 09:20 - Jul 30 by Herbivore |
That's the sort of scheme we need. Although ultimately if we are serious about climate change we also need to be phasing out private car ownership. Electric cars, their production and ongoing use and maintenance, are still polluting. Money needs to go into massively improving the quality, coverage and cost of public transport. |
Can't see that private car ownership ending in rural areas being a feasible thing. Rural bus services are being axed as it is. For people living in rural areas, car ownership is a must. [Post edited 30 Jul 2023 10:47]
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| ULEZ.... on 10:56 - Jul 30 with 932 views | StokieBlue |
That sounds like something that should be implemented I agree.
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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