| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! 06:44 - Dec 8 with 3852 views | gordon |
Those players have been hung out to dry by the decision-making at the club - sacking the manager and the whole coaching staff and then replacing them with someone who they've basically met for an hour before a run of 3 difficult league games and cup embarrassment on TV.
And obviously, people in football with any interest in the job will see those scenes from Charlton, know that Paul Cook has a reputation for basically being a good manager at this level, see the investment and the smarmy CEO and won't touch this with a bargepole.
The idea that Warnock would come here and work with Ashton, or that Ashton would be willing to hire him is nonsensical, Warnock would have Ashton on toast - it's obviously going to be someone relatively inexperienced so that Ashton doesn't lose influence/power within the club. |  | | |  |
| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 06:46 - Dec 8 with 2390 views | Rjitfc |
Yes, the good footballing man Cook had them playing oh so well didn't he? |  |
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| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 06:51 - Dec 8 with 2368 views | wkj |
Is Ahston really all that bad? I mean, he's hardly been caught with his pants down about anything? DGMW - I don't see the man as the ITFC messiah as some like to, and he could very well end up being a villain here - but surely it's to soon to be riding him as the escape goat.
That said, yes, Warnock coming here under Ashton would not be an easy relationship you'd imagine. And yes, the decision-making at the club has probably raised many more questions than have been answered. |  |
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| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 06:54 - Dec 8 with 2356 views | gordon |
| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 06:46 - Dec 8 by Rjitfc |
Yes, the good footballing man Cook had them playing oh so well didn't he? |
This post isn't about Cook - I'm just saying that the atmosphere within the club, between the players and the administrators, between the players and the fans, and between the fans and the owners etc. is all going to be an absolute mess.
Added to the fact that there were already a fair few players in that squad who were brought in to be first choice players and were tossed aside after a few games and replaced, the atmosphere and morale amongst those players must be incredibly low - they won't have any clue what's about to happen with new managers / January transfers - Fraser could be loaned out to Swindon, or the whole team could be built to his style - there's probably 10 or 12 players in similar situations. | | | |
| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 06:58 - Dec 8 with 2326 views | gordon |
| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 06:51 - Dec 8 by wkj |
Is Ahston really all that bad? I mean, he's hardly been caught with his pants down about anything? DGMW - I don't see the man as the ITFC messiah as some like to, and he could very well end up being a villain here - but surely it's to soon to be riding him as the escape goat.
That said, yes, Warnock coming here under Ashton would not be an easy relationship you'd imagine. And yes, the decision-making at the club has probably raised many more questions than have been answered. |
Not saying he's good or bad really, just that whoever made this decision (and it won't have just been him) will have created an awful lot of problems for themselves, and that there's no way we're going to get an Warnock / Allardyce type expereinced manager. | | | |
| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 06:58 - Dec 8 with 2325 views | King_ding_a_lin_g |
An excellent summary of our current plight. |  | | |
| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 07:21 - Dec 8 with 2187 views | pennblue |
| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 06:54 - Dec 8 by gordon |
This post isn't about Cook - I'm just saying that the atmosphere within the club, between the players and the administrators, between the players and the fans, and between the fans and the owners etc. is all going to be an absolute mess.
Added to the fact that there were already a fair few players in that squad who were brought in to be first choice players and were tossed aside after a few games and replaced, the atmosphere and morale amongst those players must be incredibly low - they won't have any clue what's about to happen with new managers / January transfers - Fraser could be loaned out to Swindon, or the whole team could be built to his style - there's probably 10 or 12 players in similar situations. |
We should not have fired cook, end of. Stupid stupid impatient supporters. | |
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| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 07:23 - Dec 8 with 2165 views | wkj |
| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 07:21 - Dec 8 by pennblue |
We should not have fired cook, end of. Stupid stupid impatient supporters. |
Even if we regret firing Cook- he did very little to secure his place here. Our league position was more instrumental in his dismissal than the fans were. | |
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| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 07:30 - Dec 8 with 2122 views | brazil1981 |
best post of the day! | | | |
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| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 07:33 - Dec 8 with 2079 views | Herbivore |
| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 06:58 - Dec 8 by gordon |
Not saying he's good or bad really, just that whoever made this decision (and it won't have just been him) will have created an awful lot of problems for themselves, and that there's no way we're going to get an Warnock / Allardyce type expereinced manager. |
I see that as a good thing. |  |
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| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 07:39 - Dec 8 with 2052 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Completely agree...ridiculous timing! The King is dead, long live the King. (I think we all know who that is.) |  |
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| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 07:49 - Dec 8 with 1976 views | Herbivore |
| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 07:21 - Dec 8 by pennblue |
We should not have fired cook, end of. Stupid stupid impatient supporters. |
The fans didn't sack him, stop being a bell. The board sacked him because he built this side and has failed to make a talented bunch of players any good as a collective. Performances under him lately had been poor, last night was a continuation of that trajectory. Thinking Cook is the answer is crazy based on what we've seen from him here. It's interesting that you are calling others impatient whilst losing your head over one game under a caretaker manager who only had a couple of hours to work with the players. Stupid, stupid impatient fans. | |
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| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 07:51 - Dec 8 with 1961 views | gordon |
| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 07:21 - Dec 8 by pennblue |
We should not have fired cook, end of. Stupid stupid impatient supporters. |
The decision was made by the Board of ITFC, under very little pressure from supporters. | | | |
| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 07:56 - Dec 8 with 1930 views | gordon |
| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 07:49 - Dec 8 by Herbivore |
The fans didn't sack him, stop being a bell. The board sacked him because he built this side and has failed to make a talented bunch of players any good as a collective. Performances under him lately had been poor, last night was a continuation of that trajectory. Thinking Cook is the answer is crazy based on what we've seen from him here. It's interesting that you are calling others impatient whilst losing your head over one game under a caretaker manager who only had a couple of hours to work with the players. Stupid, stupid impatient fans. |
We don't really know the extent to which Cook built the side, and it's a stretch to think that Ashton wasn't behind some of those transfers. Don't think it was ever going to work with Cook here under the new owners although he might have been brilliant if we hadn't had the takeover.
Point is that the timing of the sacking before a really difficult run, throwing McGreal the job of being caretaker having brought him into the club to do something else a week ago with all the coaches gone feels like a complete dereliction of leadership from higher up. | | | |
| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 08:02 - Dec 8 with 1876 views | Herbivore |
| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 07:56 - Dec 8 by gordon |
We don't really know the extent to which Cook built the side, and it's a stretch to think that Ashton wasn't behind some of those transfers. Don't think it was ever going to work with Cook here under the new owners although he might have been brilliant if we hadn't had the takeover.
Point is that the timing of the sacking before a really difficult run, throwing McGreal the job of being caretaker having brought him into the club to do something else a week ago with all the coaches gone feels like a complete dereliction of leadership from higher up. |
I doubt we'd have done any better in these games under Cook, given recent performances under him. We've been toothless for weeks and good sides have found ways to score against us. That's always a recipe for disaster. He was failing, a change was needed, I don't really think there was much benefit in dragging it out any longer.
I also don't buy this narrative that these weren't Cook's players. Several of them have played under him previously and I seriously doubt that he didn't green light all incoming transfers. If Ashton was signing players behind his back I doubt he'd have stayed, he's walked away before when he's felt things aren't right. Feels like it's excusing his performance here. A good manager should have been able to get a tune out of that squad of players. | |
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| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 08:05 - Dec 8 with 1858 views | braveblue |
| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 06:46 - Dec 8 by Rjitfc |
Yes, the good footballing man Cook had them playing oh so well didn't he? |
A lot better than last night. Just give it a month and see what a great decision it was. | | | |
| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 08:07 - Dec 8 with 1837 views | portmanking |
| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 06:51 - Dec 8 by wkj |
Is Ahston really all that bad? I mean, he's hardly been caught with his pants down about anything? DGMW - I don't see the man as the ITFC messiah as some like to, and he could very well end up being a villain here - but surely it's to soon to be riding him as the escape goat.
That said, yes, Warnock coming here under Ashton would not be an easy relationship you'd imagine. And yes, the decision-making at the club has probably raised many more questions than have been answered. |
I do think we have to interrogate the summer's recruitment and decide whether it was Ashton or Cook pulling the strings in the transfer market. How many of the new faces could you actually say - hand on heart - were a perfect fit for Cook's system/style? Very few if the truth be told.
You do have to wonder if Ashton leant heavily on his agent chums without this so-called data dashboard in operation until next year. | | | |
| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 08:08 - Dec 8 with 1829 views | gordon |
| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 08:02 - Dec 8 by Herbivore |
I doubt we'd have done any better in these games under Cook, given recent performances under him. We've been toothless for weeks and good sides have found ways to score against us. That's always a recipe for disaster. He was failing, a change was needed, I don't really think there was much benefit in dragging it out any longer.
I also don't buy this narrative that these weren't Cook's players. Several of them have played under him previously and I seriously doubt that he didn't green light all incoming transfers. If Ashton was signing players behind his back I doubt he'd have stayed, he's walked away before when he's felt things aren't right. Feels like it's excusing his performance here. A good manager should have been able to get a tune out of that squad of players. |
Suppose we'll find out after a while - but lots of those signings just didn't really fit with Cook's ethos - he knew the importance of creating a positive atmosphere said he wanted a small squad, and ended up with signings being tossed aside a few weeks after bringing them in after a more high profile signing rocks up. | | | |
| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 08:12 - Dec 8 with 1810 views | gordon |
| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 08:07 - Dec 8 by portmanking |
I do think we have to interrogate the summer's recruitment and decide whether it was Ashton or Cook pulling the strings in the transfer market. How many of the new faces could you actually say - hand on heart - were a perfect fit for Cook's system/style? Very few if the truth be told.
You do have to wonder if Ashton leant heavily on his agent chums without this so-called data dashboard in operation until next year. |
He's got loads of contacts in the game, he works from 6am to 9pm or whatever, he will have wanted to prove to the owners what a brilliant operator in the transfer market he was, deliver a championship squad to a league one manager etc. That summer was all about hubris, the club celebrating each new signing as if they'd won promotion, videos of Ashton meeting Celina on arrival etc.
They created an expectations monster that's swallowed up the club. | | | |
| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 08:12 - Dec 8 with 1801 views | chicoazul |
Afraid so Gordon. All any of us can do now is watch. |  |
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| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 08:15 - Dec 8 with 1754 views | Herbivore |
| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 08:08 - Dec 8 by gordon |
Suppose we'll find out after a while - but lots of those signings just didn't really fit with Cook's ethos - he knew the importance of creating a positive atmosphere said he wanted a small squad, and ended up with signings being tossed aside a few weeks after bringing them in after a more high profile signing rocks up. |
I just don't see it. Cook isn't the sort of manager to tolerate someone else building a squad for him without his input. He got as carried away as everyone else in collecting players who were too good for this level on paper. At the time the fans lapped it up. Anyone who sounded a cautionary note got shouted down. | |
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| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 08:16 - Dec 8 with 1753 views | portmanking |
| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 08:12 - Dec 8 by gordon |
He's got loads of contacts in the game, he works from 6am to 9pm or whatever, he will have wanted to prove to the owners what a brilliant operator in the transfer market he was, deliver a championship squad to a league one manager etc. That summer was all about hubris, the club celebrating each new signing as if they'd won promotion, videos of Ashton meeting Celina on arrival etc.
They created an expectations monster that's swallowed up the club. |
I do fear this has been the Ashton show in the main. I always found it strange that Ashton was pictured with each new signing rather than Cook too. Might be fascinating to look at the agents of all 19 new faces to see if there's some interesting correlations... | | | |
| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 08:18 - Dec 8 with 1741 views | portmanking |
| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 08:15 - Dec 8 by Herbivore |
I just don't see it. Cook isn't the sort of manager to tolerate someone else building a squad for him without his input. He got as carried away as everyone else in collecting players who were too good for this level on paper. At the time the fans lapped it up. Anyone who sounded a cautionary note got shouted down. |
Cook will have - somewhat naively - thought he could mould whoever Ashton brought in to the club into his system. Plus, he was at a club saying all the right things about going places. He was hardly going to resign in protest was he? But I do think Cook's been hung out to dry. So few of the new faces fit his mould when you take a step back in the cold light of day. | | | |
| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 08:20 - Dec 8 with 1721 views | Vic |
| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 07:49 - Dec 8 by Herbivore |
The fans didn't sack him, stop being a bell. The board sacked him because he built this side and has failed to make a talented bunch of players any good as a collective. Performances under him lately had been poor, last night was a continuation of that trajectory. Thinking Cook is the answer is crazy based on what we've seen from him here. It's interesting that you are calling others impatient whilst losing your head over one game under a caretaker manager who only had a couple of hours to work with the players. Stupid, stupid impatient fans. |
This!
And it isn’t going to help is we start looking for a scape goat. I’m not at all sure that I like this sudden rubbishing off Ashton. Many, most, had got to the point on Saturday of thinking that it just wasn’t working, despite our best hopes, and knew he had to go. The board have been decisive and acted in time time to potentially salvage someth8ng this season. Let’s be grateful for such decisive action after years and years of dithering! |  |
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| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 08:22 - Dec 8 with 1698 views | Herbivore |
| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 08:18 - Dec 8 by portmanking |
Cook will have - somewhat naively - thought he could mould whoever Ashton brought in to the club into his system. Plus, he was at a club saying all the right things about going places. He was hardly going to resign in protest was he? But I do think Cook's been hung out to dry. So few of the new faces fit his mould when you take a step back in the cold light of day. |
Yeah, not buying it personally. | |
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| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 08:23 - Dec 8 with 1694 views | gordon |
| We better be prepared for this to get a whole lot worse! on 08:20 - Dec 8 by Vic |
This!
And it isn’t going to help is we start looking for a scape goat. I’m not at all sure that I like this sudden rubbishing off Ashton. Many, most, had got to the point on Saturday of thinking that it just wasn’t working, despite our best hopes, and knew he had to go. The board have been decisive and acted in time time to potentially salvage someth8ng this season. Let’s be grateful for such decisive action after years and years of dithering! |
There's absolutely no way were going to salvage something from this season. | | | |
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