Forum | I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after by BrixtonBlue

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I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after 09:39 - Mar 28 with 8930 views

itself. Whenever the human population is soaring too high a new disease comes along to knock them down a bit. Now, with pollution at all time highs, people protesting in the streets about it but governments slow to react or in denial, then suddenly we have this virus that has drastically slashed travel and the pollution that comes with it. Meanwhile, scientists discover a bacterium that eats plastic, a substance that can't easily be recycled, which has been mounting up to the tune of 8bn tonnes, and which has only been around since the 50's.

Is my imagination running away with itself or is there something bigger than us at work here?

	I bet Bloots will downarrow this.
Poll:	If you work in an office, when are you off over Christmas (not booked holiday)?

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 19:10 - Mar 28 with 1270 views

WeWereZombies

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 19:01 - Mar 28 by NthQldITFC
Totally agree re habitat destruction. The trouble is the more consumers there are, the more habitat is lost. It's inescapable.

Not if humans stop being consumers and start being custodians.

Poll:

How will we get fourteen points from the last five games ?

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 22:26 - Mar 28 with 1222 views

Keaneish

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 09:54 - Mar 28 by sparks

Your imagination is running away with itself.

Humans are pattern seeking creatures. We also constantly look to imbue things with meaning based, often through wishful thiking.

A pandemic virus of this type is a function of global movement, and unregulated animal markets in china (in all likelihood). It IS therefore connected, but not in the way you suggest, to our current over-dominance of the planet.

It is if that’s what you choose to believe which is pretty much what is disseminated by different media sources. This forum often digests media coverage and repurposes it as fact; is it?

Anyone with a belief against anything mainstream is depicted a conspiracy theorist and illogical, which was the whole design post the JFK assassination. To the OP’s point, if the world can take it upon itself to heal itself, who or what is controlling it? Circumstance is more palpable, comprehensible and relative than anything existential but it seems a bit blinkered in the greater scheme of the size / vastness of the Universe; our limited knowledge of science and indeed a primitive understanding of our own faculties and operative senses.

Surely an imagination running away with itself is a paradox?

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I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 22:50 - Mar 28 with 1211 views

BrixtonBlue

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 22:26 - Mar 28 by Keaneish

Sparks and Stokie won't entertain this. Science knows it all.

Certainly you shouldn't be believing everything an obviously devious media tells you.

I prefer to keep an open and mischievous mind.

	I bet Bloots will downarrow this.
Poll:	If you work in an office, when are you off over Christmas (not booked holiday)?

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 23:20 - Mar 28 with 1200 views

Ryorry

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 09:54 - Mar 28 by sparks

"A pandemic virus of this type is a function of global movement, and unregulated animal markets in china (in all likelihood)"

Yes, it *is* all down to those two things (see my earlier post of 16.37 on p 2 "It was humankind pushing nature's boundaries by crowding one species of bat taken from the wild, up against another kind of bat in open cages in an open market, when the 2 species would never meet naturally in the wild, then introducing large crowds of humans onto the scene, that caused this virus to transmit as rapidly as it did - perfect conditions from the virus' point of view! (according to doctor on R5l bout an hour ago)."

You can see there two species of bat which never mix in the wild, being literally squashed together within a crowd of densely packed humans because of that large human population's need for food. Then guess what - that actual situation creates & enables the very bug that goes on to kill large numbers of the population. Looks like cause & effect to me.


Poll:	Why can't/don't we protest like the French do? ðŸ¤”

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 23:28 - Mar 28 with 1191 views

ElderGrizzly

Imperial College said today, the Covid-19 pandemic would ‘only’ cause 2,000 more excess deaths than seasonal flu in the UK.

8,000 for flu and 10,000 for Covid-19.

I hope they are right, as that is very much on the low side of other estimates

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 23:34 - Mar 28 with 1182 views

Ryorry

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 09:59 - Mar 28 by BanksterDebtSlave
Have seen Red Kites locally for the first time this year too....luvverly....still plenty of old stuff for them on the roads here at least.

No idea where you live, but just to make you jealous - I was outside Sainsbury's in Harrogate one late afternoon a few weeks ago (twtd when we went to supermarkets "normally"!) - the store is right next to the Gt. Yorkshire Showground & a bit of open countryside - & there were at least 15, maybe 16 Red Kites just wheeling around quite low down - no more than 100' up anyway.


Poll:	Why can't/don't we protest like the French do? ðŸ¤”

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 23:35 - Mar 28 with 1180 views

StokieBlue

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 23:28 - Mar 28 by ElderGrizzly
Imperial College said today, the Covid-19 pandemic would ‘only’ cause 2,000 more excess deaths than seasonal flu in the UK. 8,000 for flu and 10,000 for Covid-19. I hope they are right, as that is very much on the low side of other estimates

Imperial college also said 3 days ago that if there had been no government action globally then 40,000,000 people would have died this year - I posted the study.

The huge difference here being that we aren't all locked in our homes for 3 months every year with seasonal flu.

I know you know that but lets not allow this to be ammunition to the idiots.

SB

Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 23:40 - Mar 28 with 1175 views

Ryorry

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 23:35 - Mar 28 by StokieBlue
Imperial college also said 3 days ago that if there had been no government action globally then 40,000,000 people would have died this year - I posted the study. The huge difference here being that we aren't all locked in our homes for 3 months every year with seasonal flu. I know you know that but lets not allow this to be ammunition to the idiots. SB

I wonder also if they've factored in a possible second wave later in the year? -

This was in the ST last w/e. Modelling is only as good as the data, but itâ€™s usefulness is in being indicative of the NHS being at capacity whilst we approach the peak of the pandemic curve, based on current precautions. Iâ€™m no expert but it looks the NHS is in trouble till June? pic.twitter.com/ZzPe8s4Ehq
— HelenSparkles (@HelenSparkles) March 28, 2020


Poll:	Why can't/don't we protest like the French do? ðŸ¤”

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 23:57 - Mar 28 with 1163 views

sparks

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 22:26 - Mar 28 by Keaneish

Good grief. So many straw men and non sequiturs in one post.

The time to personify the world and imbue it with intent is when there is a shred of evidence for it. Until then it is on the same level as claiming it was gremlins that moved your keys.

That does not mean that one has a closed mind about other possibilities. But one should really only seriously entertain ideas for which there is reason to believe they are possible.

	The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it. (Sir Terry Pratchett)
Poll:	Is Fred drunk this morning?

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 08:25 - Mar 29 with 1125 views

WeWereZombies

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 23:57 - Mar 28 by sparks

'We talk of processes and states and leave their nature undecided....And now the analogy which was to make us understand our thoughts falls to pieces. So we have to deny the yet uncomprehended process in the yet unexplored medium.'

Wittgenstein

Poll:

How will we get fourteen points from the last five games ?

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 10:20 - Mar 29 with 1103 views

Radlett_blue

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 23:20 - Mar 28 by Ryorry

Rather like when some people thought it was a great idea to feed bone meal to vegetarian cattle.

Poll:

Should horse racing be banned in the UK?

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 10:23 - Mar 29 with 1098 views

sparks

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 08:25 - Mar 29 by WeWereZombies
'We talk of processes and states and leave their nature undecided....And now the analogy which was to make us understand our thoughts falls to pieces. So we have to deny the yet uncomprehended process in the yet unexplored medium.' Wittgenstein

I think you miss the point.

	The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it. (Sir Terry Pratchett)
Poll:	Is Fred drunk this morning?

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 10:50 - Mar 29 with 1084 views

Radlett_blue

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 10:23 - Mar 29 by sparks
I think you miss the point.

There wasn't one.
It was a pointless answer.

Poll:

Should horse racing be banned in the UK?

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 10:52 - Mar 29 with 1079 views

Darth_Koont

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 23:28 - Mar 28 by ElderGrizzly
Imperial College said today, the Covid-19 pandemic would ‘only’ cause 2,000 more excess deaths than seasonal flu in the UK. 8,000 for flu and 10,000 for Covid-19. I hope they are right, as that is very much on the low side of other estimates

While it might give context to the epidemic in the UK as a whole it doesn't take into account the local situation and the risks of swamping healthcare resources. I think that's what we're seeing in the Italian and Spanish cities, New York and London it seems.

The risk of heathcare resources being overstretched (made worse by many in the workforce going down with the virus too) is the real threat. That's what the statistics don't really show in any comparison with deaths due to flu or pneumonia etc. that will kill a couple of million globally.

And of course these pockets can still hit anywhere even in smaller towns, cities and communities.

Pronouns: He/Him

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 11:56 - Mar 29 with 1049 views

WeWereZombies

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 10:23 - Mar 29 by sparks
I think you miss the point.

For the first time in a while; I laughed out loud when I read that.

Poll:

How will we get fourteen points from the last five games ?

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 12:12 - Mar 29 with 1044 views

Ryorry

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 10:52 - Mar 29 by Darth_Koont

I'm assuming you included in that, the numbers of other people who will die of other acute medical emergencies - heart attacks, head injuries as a result of falls etc. - who will die because the medical resources that are usually available and which would save them - are overwhelmed dealing with the virus?


Poll:	Why can't/don't we protest like the French do? ðŸ¤”

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 12:38 - Mar 29 with 1018 views

Darth_Koont

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 12:12 - Mar 29 by Ryorry
I'm assuming you included in that, the numbers of other people who will die of other acute medical emergencies - heart attacks, head injuries as a result of falls etc. - who will die because the medical resources that are usually available and which would save them - are overwhelmed dealing with the virus?

Not at this stage. That will also happen but the longterm effects of the NHS in panic mode (A&E and intensive care shortages and even a lot of preventive stuff like screening) will take longer to work out.

My sister is only working in her principle role as a radiologist on "high-priority" cases like children with cancer. So that's an awful lot of work that's going to be backlog with the risk that people die earlier than they should for all sorts of conditions.

Pronouns: He/Him

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 12:46 - Mar 29 with 1006 views

Ryorry

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 12:38 - Mar 29 by Darth_Koont

Yes :(

There's a big unspoken in all this - younger generations are being asked to make massive, massive sacrifices for 70plusses, who a century ago would just have died, and that would simply have been considered as part of the natural order of things.

Introducing this philosophical slant very, very gingerly!


Poll:	Why can't/don't we protest like the French do? ðŸ¤”

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 12:52 - Mar 29 with 991 views

sparks

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 12:46 - Mar 29 by Ryorry
Yes :( There's a big unspoken in all this - younger generations are being asked to make massive, massive sacrifices for 70plusses, who a century ago would just have died, and that would simply have been considered as part of the natural order of things. Introducing this philosophical slant very, very gingerly!

There is something in that.

But equally, they are being asked to make sacrifices for themselves, and for the sort of society they want to grow up in.

	The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it. (Sir Terry Pratchett)
Poll:	Is Fred drunk this morning?

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 13:02 - Mar 29 with 972 views

WeWereZombies

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 12:46 - Mar 29 by Ryorry
Yes :( There's a big unspoken in all this - younger generations are being asked to make massive, massive sacrifices for 70plusses, who a century ago would just have died, and that would simply have been considered as part of the natural order of things. Introducing this philosophical slant very, very gingerly!

Whilst it is true that there was no welfare state as we know it in 1920 there were pensions, almshouses and the dreaded poor house in the past. The old age pension actually started in 1908:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old-Age_Pensions_Act_1908

And this was in the midst of other, Liberal Party instigated, welfare reforms:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_welfare_reforms

Poll:

How will we get fourteen points from the last five games ?

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 13:48 - Mar 29 with 947 views

NewcyBlue

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 22:50 - Mar 28 by BrixtonBlue
Sparks and Stokie won't entertain this. Science knows it all. Certainly you shouldn't be believing everything an obviously devious media tells you. I prefer to keep an open and mischievous mind.

You know what mate? MrsN says she just trusts that Mother Nature knew what she was doing and that was the reason for the miscarriages we’ve had. If that’s what gives her comfort then that’s good enough for me.

Poll:

Who has been the best Bond?

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 14:11 - Mar 29 with 937 views

Radlett_blue

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 13:02 - Mar 29 by WeWereZombies
Whilst it is true that there was no welfare state as we know it in 1920 there were pensions, almshouses and the dreaded poor house in the past. The old age pension actually started in 1908: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old-Age_Pensions_Act_1908 And this was in the midst of other, Liberal Party instigated, welfare reforms: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_welfare_reforms

Ahh yes, the People's Budget, followed by war with the House of Lords (then all hereditary peers).

Poll:

Should horse racing be banned in the UK?

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 15:56 - Mar 29 with 913 views

Ryorry

I'm beginning to wonder if the planet, or Mother Nature, knows how to look after on 12:52 - Mar 29 by sparks
There is something in that. But equally, they are being asked to make sacrifices for themselves, and for the sort of society they want to grow up in.

True, & I must say I hadn't thought of it from that point of view, but I still think of it as at least a 70% negative for the youngsters - albeit that might change in time, depending on what kind of world emerges at the end of all this.

Us oldies are having negative consequences too of course - isolation, dying alone, possible food shortages - but the couple of people I've spoken with in person about it feel, like me, quite resigned & fatalistic - we've had our time etc etc. & are just concerned about those we may leave behind.

I'm probably currently influenced by experiences of son of close friend who's married with 2 young-ish kids, is buying & renovating a house while they rent another, so he's got double outlay. He shelled out over £15K in renovation materials which he hasn't yet received from a company who's now shut down & may not survive. Had to lay off the team of builders he had in. He's an independent self-employed film producer who built his company up from nothing, no parental or other help. Says he'll get little from the Chancellor's package, and that he feels like everything he's worked for over the last 15 years is going to zilch :(


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