| The Fracking Hell on 13:15 - Nov 4 with 598 views | StokieBlue |
| The Fracking Hell on 13:11 - Nov 4 by chicoazul |
We're just talking, but ok. |
OK sure, but was it a serious question?
Any sequestered carbon which is released directly contributes to climate change. Coal is a form of sequestered carbon and thus the argument is self-evident and the correlation clear.
Can you put forward how there isn't a climate argument against opening a new coal mine?
SB [Post edited 4 Nov 2019 13:15]
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| The Fracking Hell on 13:18 - Nov 4 with 591 views | chicoazul |
| The Fracking Hell on 13:15 - Nov 4 by StokieBlue |
OK sure, but was it a serious question?
Any sequestered carbon which is released directly contributes to climate change. Coal is a form of sequestered carbon and thus the argument is self-evident and the correlation clear.
Can you put forward how there isn't a climate argument against opening a new coal mine?
SB [Post edited 4 Nov 2019 13:15]
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Certainly. Given that there are so many new coal plants opening in China India and Japan, just 3 countries, then it is pure folly to think us opening one in Cumbria, this specific one you have mentioned, will make any difference whatsoever to climate change. |  |
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| The Fracking Hell on 13:24 - Nov 4 with 583 views | StokieBlue |
| The Fracking Hell on 13:18 - Nov 4 by chicoazul |
Certainly. Given that there are so many new coal plants opening in China India and Japan, just 3 countries, then it is pure folly to think us opening one in Cumbria, this specific one you have mentioned, will make any difference whatsoever to climate change. |
Incorrect.
It will have a direct affect on climate change just as any sequestered carbon which is released does. The scale is small compared to your examples but it's still and effect.
You've cited that argument before. I'll counter by saying that if everyone applied your argument to it's logical conclusion then we should write-off the planet and humanity now, all buy SUVs, fly everywhere whenever possible and generally not worry about anything.
Just because another person or entity does something it doesn't mean you should. Someone has to make the first moves. It's ultimately a self-defeating argument.
SB | |
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| The Fracking Hell on 13:29 - Nov 4 with 578 views | chicoazul |
| The Fracking Hell on 13:24 - Nov 4 by StokieBlue |
Incorrect.
It will have a direct affect on climate change just as any sequestered carbon which is released does. The scale is small compared to your examples but it's still and effect.
You've cited that argument before. I'll counter by saying that if everyone applied your argument to it's logical conclusion then we should write-off the planet and humanity now, all buy SUVs, fly everywhere whenever possible and generally not worry about anything.
Just because another person or entity does something it doesn't mean you should. Someone has to make the first moves. It's ultimately a self-defeating argument.
SB |
A completely negligible, tiny effect. It will make no difference whatsoever in the grand scheme of things, nor will pretty much anything we do in this country in this regard, because we are a tiny insignificant country in the grand scheme of climate change (and in just about every other way too). | |
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| The Fracking Hell on 13:33 - Nov 4 with 567 views | StokieBlue |
| The Fracking Hell on 13:29 - Nov 4 by chicoazul |
A completely negligible, tiny effect. It will make no difference whatsoever in the grand scheme of things, nor will pretty much anything we do in this country in this regard, because we are a tiny insignificant country in the grand scheme of climate change (and in just about every other way too). |
You've missed the point again.
Have a lovely afternoon.
SB | |
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| The Fracking Hell on 13:34 - Nov 4 with 565 views | chicoazul |
| The Fracking Hell on 13:33 - Nov 4 by StokieBlue |
You've missed the point again.
Have a lovely afternoon.
SB |
I really don think I have although I suppose its not for me to say. You said it will have a direct effect and I say that effect will be so minuscule as to be irrelevant in the light of what just 3 other countries are doing, never mind the rest of the world. | |
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| The Fracking Hell on 13:39 - Nov 4 with 560 views | StokieBlue |
| The Fracking Hell on 13:34 - Nov 4 by chicoazul |
I really don think I have although I suppose its not for me to say. You said it will have a direct effect and I say that effect will be so minuscule as to be irrelevant in the light of what just 3 other countries are doing, never mind the rest of the world. |
It's more your general position on climate change. Each scenario is countered with: it doesn't matter because X, Y and Z are still polluting.
It's not a sensible position if you ever want things to change over the longer term.
SB | |
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| The Fracking Hell on 13:46 - Nov 4 with 551 views | chicoazul |
| The Fracking Hell on 13:39 - Nov 4 by StokieBlue |
It's more your general position on climate change. Each scenario is countered with: it doesn't matter because X, Y and Z are still polluting.
It's not a sensible position if you ever want things to change over the longer term.
SB |
Well why isnt it? Unless you or Greta or X Rebellion or whoever can get the US China India Indonesia Brazil and pretty much all of Africa to change course, it *literally does not matter* what we do in this country.
If in the meantime we choose to wreck or seriously stall our economy on the basis of some mythic Green new deal, or put our energy supply chain in the hands of the EU Russia and the middle east because people think oohhhh coal is bad nuclear is bad wont someone think of the climate, then that is amazingly stupid and grotesquely negligent. | |
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| The Fracking Hell on 14:01 - Nov 4 with 545 views | StokieBlue |
| The Fracking Hell on 13:46 - Nov 4 by chicoazul |
Well why isnt it? Unless you or Greta or X Rebellion or whoever can get the US China India Indonesia Brazil and pretty much all of Africa to change course, it *literally does not matter* what we do in this country.
If in the meantime we choose to wreck or seriously stall our economy on the basis of some mythic Green new deal, or put our energy supply chain in the hands of the EU Russia and the middle east because people think oohhhh coal is bad nuclear is bad wont someone think of the climate, then that is amazingly stupid and grotesquely negligent. |
It's pretty hard to convince someone to do something if you're unwilling to do it yourself. You are essentially advocating a perpetual cycle of finger pointing where nothing ever gets done.
SB | |
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| The Fracking Hell on 14:03 - Nov 4 with 541 views | chicoazul |
| The Fracking Hell on 14:01 - Nov 4 by StokieBlue |
It's pretty hard to convince someone to do something if you're unwilling to do it yourself. You are essentially advocating a perpetual cycle of finger pointing where nothing ever gets done.
SB |
Do you honestly think that the Chinese Americans and Indians care a damn about what we think or do? Do you honestly think we could convince these mighty enormous hugely influential countries to do anything we suggest? | |
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| The Fracking Hell on 14:04 - Nov 4 with 541 views | CoachRob |
| The Fracking Hell on 13:46 - Nov 4 by chicoazul |
Well why isnt it? Unless you or Greta or X Rebellion or whoever can get the US China India Indonesia Brazil and pretty much all of Africa to change course, it *literally does not matter* what we do in this country.
If in the meantime we choose to wreck or seriously stall our economy on the basis of some mythic Green new deal, or put our energy supply chain in the hands of the EU Russia and the middle east because people think oohhhh coal is bad nuclear is bad wont someone think of the climate, then that is amazingly stupid and grotesquely negligent. |
Better not introduce you to Euan Mearns' research then? He looks at the possibility of an energy cliff, where regardless of what we use as an energy source, we cannot sustain our current system.
The use of tax and dividend (reinforcing feedback loop) carbon pricing helped reduce dramatically the use of coal in this country. There are students from those countries in the UK learning about these very policies. |  | | |
| The Fracking Hell on 14:05 - Nov 4 with 536 views | chicoazul |
| The Fracking Hell on 14:04 - Nov 4 by CoachRob |
Better not introduce you to Euan Mearns' research then? He looks at the possibility of an energy cliff, where regardless of what we use as an energy source, we cannot sustain our current system.
The use of tax and dividend (reinforcing feedback loop) carbon pricing helped reduce dramatically the use of coal in this country. There are students from those countries in the UK learning about these very policies. |
Never heard of him, I will look into him though, thanks. | |
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| The Fracking Hell on 14:07 - Nov 4 with 535 views | StokieBlue |
| The Fracking Hell on 14:03 - Nov 4 by chicoazul |
Do you honestly think that the Chinese Americans and Indians care a damn about what we think or do? Do you honestly think we could convince these mighty enormous hugely influential countries to do anything we suggest? |
I think we have zero chance if we follow your paradigm.
I'd take a non-zero chance over that along with a cleaner local environment and hopefully momentum along with other European nations in persuading them.
Or we could just ignore it all like you seem to suggest.
SB [Post edited 4 Nov 2019 14:08]
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| The Fracking Hell on 14:14 - Nov 4 with 523 views | chicoazul |
| The Fracking Hell on 14:07 - Nov 4 by StokieBlue |
I think we have zero chance if we follow your paradigm.
I'd take a non-zero chance over that along with a cleaner local environment and hopefully momentum along with other European nations in persuading them.
Or we could just ignore it all like you seem to suggest.
SB [Post edited 4 Nov 2019 14:08]
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"seem to suggest" oy vey
I am not advocating ignoring anything. I am simply saying what I believe to be true. I have said on here before we can all do better as individuals in regards to the environment, how we treat animals, buying many fewer "things", taking fewer flights etc. But I see no sense at all in either wrecking our economy or relying on other countries/super-states for our energy, for climate change reasons, when we are utterly insignificant as a polluter compared to other vastly bigger places.
We are not an important or influential country anymore, especially now that we are leaving the EU. We need to move on from this mythical notion of British Exceptionalism. It no longer matters what we do or say on the world's stage. | |
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