| Latest Brexit position 08:11 - Aug 20 with 7379 views | Herbivore |
The backstop has to go, although we acknowledge we need something in Ireland to avoid a hard border but we're not sure what, but we're willing to work at it and might be up for making certain legal commitments that aren't the backstop. Glad we've cleared that up. Surely this is all about looking willing to do a deal so that he can blame the EU when we don't end up with one? It's just not serious and sums up the state of our PM and his government.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49402840 |  |
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| Latest Brexit position on 09:59 - Aug 20 with 2279 views | blueislander |
| Latest Brexit position on 09:31 - Aug 20 by Pinewoodblue |
The current situation is much as it was when A50 letter was submitted. Had May been a committed leave r this would have been resolved ages ago.
The biggest problem has always been the EU refusal to enter into trade negotiations until after we have left the EU.
By being weak and allowing the EU to fanny about over the island of Ireland issues May has been compiisate and aided the EU in their dishonourable tactics. In truth the only reason why I voted remain as could see this coming. |
You really think the EU have been “fannying around” on Ireland. ? The Ireland matter is one on which the EU have been consistent , and crystal clear. For Boris to pin all his hopes of leaving with a deal on getting them to change their position is utter madness. |  | | |
| Latest Brexit position on 10:02 - Aug 20 with 2275 views | Herbivore |
| Latest Brexit position on 09:55 - Aug 20 by homer_123 |
To think that the country will be at its knees due to a shortage of lettuce is equally naive. |
Again, you're shifting the goalposts. You are the one using phrases like the country being at its knees and the shelves being empty, not me. You're the one who mentioned Zimbabwe style inflation, not me. You're also the one who initially denied there'd be any food shortages. If you no longer want to claim that then fine, stop inventing straw men to argue about instead. If your actual point is that you don't think food shortages are really going to be all that bad then again that's a different point. We've still gone quite a way from sunlit uplands to thinking food shortages aren't all that bad so long as the country isn't on its knees. | |
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| Latest Brexit position on 10:05 - Aug 20 with 2264 views | GlasgowBlue |
If only the last government had negotiated a deal with the EU which would have seen us leave in an orderly fashion, whilst continuing close trading arrangements with the EU and a guarantee of citizens rights for EU members living here.
Surely that would have been something that those worried about crashing out with no deal and no plan would have got behind in the House of Commons? |  |
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| Latest Brexit position on 10:07 - Aug 20 with 2257 views | homer_123 |
| Latest Brexit position on 10:02 - Aug 20 by Herbivore |
Again, you're shifting the goalposts. You are the one using phrases like the country being at its knees and the shelves being empty, not me. You're the one who mentioned Zimbabwe style inflation, not me. You're also the one who initially denied there'd be any food shortages. If you no longer want to claim that then fine, stop inventing straw men to argue about instead. If your actual point is that you don't think food shortages are really going to be all that bad then again that's a different point. We've still gone quite a way from sunlit uplands to thinking food shortages aren't all that bad so long as the country isn't on its knees. |
No, I've been consistent - there won't be shortages - clear enough for you.
Your views are so entrenched and negative on this, you are like the one eyed citizen. |  |
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| Latest Brexit position on 10:08 - Aug 20 with 2254 views | Mugwump |
| Latest Brexit position on 10:05 - Aug 20 by GlasgowBlue |
If only the last government had negotiated a deal with the EU which would have seen us leave in an orderly fashion, whilst continuing close trading arrangements with the EU and a guarantee of citizens rights for EU members living here.
Surely that would have been something that those worried about crashing out with no deal and no plan would have got behind in the House of Commons? |
Are you talking about Mays deal? That was the worst scenario. It could have been written by a German. | | | |
| Latest Brexit position on 10:12 - Aug 20 with 2241 views | Herbivore |
| Latest Brexit position on 10:07 - Aug 20 by homer_123 |
No, I've been consistent - there won't be shortages - clear enough for you.
Your views are so entrenched and negative on this, you are like the one eyed citizen. |
Equally, your view seems rather entrenched since it won't be shifted by forecasts from experts that predict food shortages as a result of a no deal Brexit. | |
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| Latest Brexit position on 10:16 - Aug 20 with 2230 views | eireblue |
| Latest Brexit position on 10:08 - Aug 20 by Mugwump |
Are you talking about Mays deal? That was the worst scenario. It could have been written by a German. |
The worst scenario?
Can you explain which parts of the 599 page withdrawal agreement are worse than your preferred exit preference?
Maybe just the top 10 areas that will be measurably better in your preferred option than that plan? |  | | |
| Latest Brexit position on 10:17 - Aug 20 with 2228 views | Herbivore |
| Latest Brexit position on 10:08 - Aug 20 by Mugwump |
Are you talking about Mays deal? That was the worst scenario. It could have been written by a German. |
Leaving with no transition period or framework for our future relationship with the EU is very obviously a worse scenario. | |
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| Latest Brexit position on 10:59 - Aug 20 with 2200 views | Mugwump |
| Latest Brexit position on 10:16 - Aug 20 by eireblue |
The worst scenario?
Can you explain which parts of the 599 page withdrawal agreement are worse than your preferred exit preference?
Maybe just the top 10 areas that will be measurably better in your preferred option than that plan? |
You don’t know what my preferred exit option is.
Quite frankly I don’t give much of a monkeys chuff about Brexit either way. What I wouldn’t do though is leave - but still be governed by The EU for possibly forever. I cannot see one advantage of this. | | | |
| Latest Brexit position on 11:24 - Aug 20 with 2181 views | Herbivore |
| Latest Brexit position on 10:59 - Aug 20 by Mugwump |
You don’t know what my preferred exit option is.
Quite frankly I don’t give much of a monkeys chuff about Brexit either way. What I wouldn’t do though is leave - but still be governed by The EU for possibly forever. I cannot see one advantage of this. |
We wouldn't be governed by the EU. We aren't governed by the EU now. | |
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| Latest Brexit position on 11:29 - Aug 20 with 2173 views | BigManBlue |
| Latest Brexit position on 09:55 - Aug 20 by homer_123 |
To think that the country will be at its knees due to a shortage of lettuce is equally naive. |
Have you ever tried a sandwich with only bacon and tomato? |  |
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| Latest Brexit position on 11:39 - Aug 20 with 2166 views | Mugwump |
| Latest Brexit position on 11:24 - Aug 20 by Herbivore |
We wouldn't be governed by the EU. We aren't governed by the EU now. |
Oh hell. I don’t know why I got involved in this.
The EU would have control over UK economic policies and it had far reaching EU control that we wouldn’t have been able to get out of without EU agreement. We were in fact stuck with our balls being trapped on the fence.
I read a load of airhead stuff on here and I don’t want to get involved so can we just agree that you are right and I am wrong and I’ll get on with my day. | | | |
| Latest Brexit position on 11:45 - Aug 20 with 2153 views | Herbivore |
| Latest Brexit position on 11:39 - Aug 20 by Mugwump |
Oh hell. I don’t know why I got involved in this.
The EU would have control over UK economic policies and it had far reaching EU control that we wouldn’t have been able to get out of without EU agreement. We were in fact stuck with our balls being trapped on the fence.
I read a load of airhead stuff on here and I don’t want to get involved so can we just agree that you are right and I am wrong and I’ll get on with my day. |
We can agree on that last paragraph, sure. Enjoy your day. | |
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| Latest Brexit position on 11:47 - Aug 20 with 2146 views | jeera |
| Latest Brexit position on 11:29 - Aug 20 by BigManBlue |
Have you ever tried a sandwich with only bacon and tomato? |
I have some lettuce seeds.
Although if I'm honest, I think they may be out of date. |  |
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| Latest Brexit position on 11:50 - Aug 20 with 2144 views | Darth_Koont |
| Latest Brexit position on 11:24 - Aug 20 by Herbivore |
We wouldn't be governed by the EU. We aren't governed by the EU now. |
This "governed by the EU" nonsense is one of the most widely repeated EU myths. And one of the silliest too. |  |
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| Latest Brexit position on 11:59 - Aug 20 with 2123 views | gordon |
| Latest Brexit position on 09:05 - Aug 20 by homer_123 |
In some respects using No Deal as a bargaining chip is sensible - the issue, however, is it's too late in the day now.
The EU can still, clearly, see that within the UK there are attempts to stop No Deal from happening - therefore - it's a rather moot point now.
Interestingly, the Ireland issue does offer some more scope and movement I feel but I am unconvinced that the EU will budge at all - they appear to have their ducks lined up far better than we do - they've got 20 odd countries to get an agreement, we can't managed between two internal political parties.
Even if no deal happens - there won't be food shortages or the need to stock pile.
I've said from the outset (way before the referendum took place) that we'll end up not leaving.
That could still happen but not until those wishing to make that happen come together....no sign of that happening soon though. |
The combination of stockpiling caused by mild panic, combined with even fairly slight disruption of supply chains is likely to lead to shortages of some products. It'll be the EU's fault though. It was their idea, after all. |  | | |
| Latest Brexit position on 12:12 - Aug 20 with 2107 views | eireblue |
| Latest Brexit position on 10:59 - Aug 20 by Mugwump |
You don’t know what my preferred exit option is.
Quite frankly I don’t give much of a monkeys chuff about Brexit either way. What I wouldn’t do though is leave - but still be governed by The EU for possibly forever. I cannot see one advantage of this. |
I know.
That’s why I asked for a comparison between your favoured approach, and the one you dismissed.
How about a top 5.
A clear advantage that Winston Churchill thought about the whole thing was, countries that have their industries integrated, will find it much harder to built up a military superiority, and hence start wars with neighbouring countries.
That has somewhat stopped between countries.
Another threat to humans is stuff like climate change and pollution.
A single country can’t stop pollution or climate change.
Over fishing and killing fish stocks would be a bad thing, not only for fish.
A single country cannot change that.
Many diseases are not unique to a country, be good to pool resources and talents to help human health.
So there are a range of issues were co-operation is clearly a good thing.
You need some framework for such co-operation. | | | |
| Latest Brexit position on 12:32 - Aug 20 with 2076 views | BlueNomad |
I agree with anything Pickles says |  | | |
| Latest Brexit position on 12:40 - Aug 20 with 2060 views | BlueBadger |
| Latest Brexit position on 09:05 - Aug 20 by homer_123 |
In some respects using No Deal as a bargaining chip is sensible - the issue, however, is it's too late in the day now.
The EU can still, clearly, see that within the UK there are attempts to stop No Deal from happening - therefore - it's a rather moot point now.
Interestingly, the Ireland issue does offer some more scope and movement I feel but I am unconvinced that the EU will budge at all - they appear to have their ducks lined up far better than we do - they've got 20 odd countries to get an agreement, we can't managed between two internal political parties.
Even if no deal happens - there won't be food shortages or the need to stock pile.
I've said from the outset (way before the referendum took place) that we'll end up not leaving.
That could still happen but not until those wishing to make that happen come together....no sign of that happening soon though. |
How is 'give us what we want or we'll f*ck ourselves into the ground' in any way a sensible bargaining chip?
We haven't been preparing long enough or adequately enough to do that for starters. |  |
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| Latest Brexit position on 12:52 - Aug 20 with 2042 views | gordon |
| Latest Brexit position on 12:40 - Aug 20 by BlueBadger |
How is 'give us what we want or we'll f*ck ourselves into the ground' in any way a sensible bargaining chip?
We haven't been preparing long enough or adequately enough to do that for starters. |
It's bizarre that people are still saying this - a no deal outcome will obviously have negative economic effects for some EU countries, but politically it's an excellent outcome for mainstream centrist pro-European parties.
The Populist right-wing anti-EU movements across Europe will be significantly weakened by a British no deal outcome and the ensuing mess in the UK. The only reason there's a chance for compromise is the EU isn't willing to f*ck over Ireland - unlike our Prime Minister. | | | |
| Latest Brexit position on 13:16 - Aug 20 with 2015 views | Darth_Koont |
| Latest Brexit position on 12:52 - Aug 20 by gordon |
It's bizarre that people are still saying this - a no deal outcome will obviously have negative economic effects for some EU countries, but politically it's an excellent outcome for mainstream centrist pro-European parties.
The Populist right-wing anti-EU movements across Europe will be significantly weakened by a British no deal outcome and the ensuing mess in the UK. The only reason there's a chance for compromise is the EU isn't willing to f*ck over Ireland - unlike our Prime Minister. |
Agreed. As you say, there are many political advantages for the EU with a No Deal Brexit. And in the mid to long term many economic advantages as foreign investment and market share will no doubt slide from the UK into the EU.
But they won't go for that because of screwing over Ireland and putting an unfair economic burden on many people, companies and industries that currently rely on UK trade. So basically they're acting like reasonable adults rather than spoilt, greedy children.
We're seeing what happens when an organization represents its member states and citizens. In stark contrast to our self-interested government that want others to pay the price for the ideological and party political rabbit hole they're stuck in. | |
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| Latest Brexit position on 13:24 - Aug 20 with 2002 views | Freddies_Ears |
| Latest Brexit position on 10:05 - Aug 20 by GlasgowBlue |
If only the last government had negotiated a deal with the EU which would have seen us leave in an orderly fashion, whilst continuing close trading arrangements with the EU and a guarantee of citizens rights for EU members living here.
Surely that would have been something that those worried about crashing out with no deal and no plan would have got behind in the House of Commons? |
Indeed. It was the utter inevitability of failure due to May's incompatible red lines. Exit would have been achieved by now if we'd stepped out of the political institutions but stayed in single market and customs union until such time as we could work out a way of leaving either or both without trashing the economy. | | | |
| Latest Brexit position on 13:35 - Aug 20 with 1978 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Latest Brexit position on 09:49 - Aug 20 by caught-in-limbo |
Good post.
No sincere preparations for a no deal Brexit will happen in advance of October 31st. So we know it's not going to happen and there's no point fearing a Zimbabwe like scenario no matter what fear mongering experts in the press want to generate.
The story will most likely pan out as follows.
In the red, white and blue corner we have our crazy floppy-haired toff fighting for the rights of the average independent-minded Brit. Hooray!
In the golden star corner we have the inflexible, unelected, steamroller of a multistate monolith, the EU. Boo!
Will plucky David stand up and force Goliath to budge 2.54cm?
Round 1
No one's budging despite honest Blighty's old-fashioned appeals to fair play.
Rounds 2-11
See round 1
Round 12
Well, stalemate looks inevitable as we enter the final 10 seconds.
Wait... what's this?
A concession of sorts from the EU.
And Boris thinks he's got it.
The Euros are looking a little crest-fallen.
The Brexiteers are looking a little confused, the remainers look happy. Half a billion European citizens have slept through this monumental moment in British history.
Britain are out of Europe!
I repeat, the UK are still in Europe.
A win for everyone.
A win for democracy.
Boris for King of Europe, forever!
EDIT
Herbivore downvoted this because he suffers from an increasingly common, yet to date incurable condition called choris chioumor. Sufferers of this condition have the right to take as much offense over light-hearted matters as they wish.
#BackstopSchmackstop [Post edited 20 Aug 2019 11:42]
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"there's no point fearing a Zimbabwe like scenario no matter what fear mongering experts in the press want to generate."
I've not seen this in the press, can you forward me a link? |  |
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| Latest Brexit position on 13:37 - Aug 20 with 1977 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Latest Brexit position on 09:55 - Aug 20 by homer_123 |
To think that the country will be at its knees due to a shortage of lettuce is equally naive. |
You seem to be building a lot of straw men. | |
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| Latest Brexit position on 13:48 - Aug 20 with 1954 views | wedge88 |
iT IS ONLY A MATTER OF WEEKS THAT OUR CURRENT PM VOTED FOR THE BACK STOP WHEN HE VOTED FOR MRS MAY'S DEAL HOW CAN ANYBODY BELIEVE A WORD THIS MAN SAYS | | | |
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