| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. 14:51 - Jan 2 with 12370 views | blueblood66 |
we would have been invaded. Its not over until its over, when we cannot obtain enough points to survive. Defeatists are asunder, time to pull as one until its done. Then and ONLY then must we call out Evans for what he is and show our utter displeasure and vitriol. [Post edited 2 Jan 2019 14:51]
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| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 08:39 - Jan 3 with 2672 views | 26_Paz |
| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 15:35 - Jan 2 by ElephantintheRoom |
Hmmm I think you will find that in 1939 we declared war on Germany because they invaded Poland - something we could do nothing about anyway except sit back and watch Germany and Russia carve it up and mass murder millions of its citizens. Having made tea on the Maginot line for the rest of the year we beat a hasty retreat at the first sign of the German army and left the messy business of war to other countries until 1944. In 1939 we also closed off the safety net of 'British Palestine' to Europe's Jews - thus condemning a few more millions to death. Apart from that 1939 was rather uneventful for Brits. |
Seriously, just read some actual history before you make yourself look like an idiot on the internet.
What you have written is an absolute insult to those I list below (this is just from the top of my head, I will have missed many, many more examples):
Those lost their lives / homes during the blitz.
Those who lost their lives during the fighting / retreat from Dunkirk.
Those who lost their lives fighting in North Africa.
Those who lost their lives fighting the Japanese in the Far East (not to mention those enslaved by the Japanese).
Those who lost their lives being sunk by U Boats during the battle of the Atlantic.
Those who lost their lives supplying the Soviets in the Arctic convoys (where my Grandfather contracted the lung condition that caused his slow and painful death)
I could go on but don't wish to waste any more time on you. You're an absolute disgrace. |  |
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| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 08:59 - Jan 3 with 2647 views | Oxford_Blue |
| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 08:39 - Jan 3 by 26_Paz |
Seriously, just read some actual history before you make yourself look like an idiot on the internet.
What you have written is an absolute insult to those I list below (this is just from the top of my head, I will have missed many, many more examples):
Those lost their lives / homes during the blitz.
Those who lost their lives during the fighting / retreat from Dunkirk.
Those who lost their lives fighting in North Africa.
Those who lost their lives fighting the Japanese in the Far East (not to mention those enslaved by the Japanese).
Those who lost their lives being sunk by U Boats during the battle of the Atlantic.
Those who lost their lives supplying the Soviets in the Arctic convoys (where my Grandfather contracted the lung condition that caused his slow and painful death)
I could go on but don't wish to waste any more time on you. You're an absolute disgrace. |
Well said. |  | | |
| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 09:03 - Jan 3 with 2646 views | ElephantintheRoom |
| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 15:39 - Jan 2 by Oxford_Blue |
Ah, a left wing revisionist take.
Britain not only financed Russia (together with the US) but defeated the Germans for the first time and showed they could be stopped. Britain then fought Japan in the Far East, a naval war all around the world, and was fighting German and axis troops in North Africa well before the Americans committed forces to the European theatre.
Britain also provided the US with bases from which to bomb Germany and bomber command played a significant part in that.
Yes, it was the Soviets who were largely responsible for defeating Germany but they relied on significant allied economic aid and weapons. |
And what has any of that got to do with 1939 when Britain declared war on Germany and triggered a massive European conflict that they largely opted out of (apart from mass murder of civilians) via carpet bombing? Granted we tried to protect our empire interests and my father gave Rommel a bloody nose at Tobruk - but the greatest impact on the war in the med was made by a fascist dictator - Franco, who refused German instructions to close the Med to the British navy by taking over Gibralter. And even that, like our expeditionary force to Norway (minus the equipment needed to do anything) was in 1940. Just because Britain airbrushed its incomeptent, arrogant and shameful role in WW2 doesn't really hide the unpalatable truth - unless you want it to. | |
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| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 09:16 - Jan 3 with 2635 views | Bluespeed225 |
| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 09:03 - Jan 3 by ElephantintheRoom |
And what has any of that got to do with 1939 when Britain declared war on Germany and triggered a massive European conflict that they largely opted out of (apart from mass murder of civilians) via carpet bombing? Granted we tried to protect our empire interests and my father gave Rommel a bloody nose at Tobruk - but the greatest impact on the war in the med was made by a fascist dictator - Franco, who refused German instructions to close the Med to the British navy by taking over Gibralter. And even that, like our expeditionary force to Norway (minus the equipment needed to do anything) was in 1940. Just because Britain airbrushed its incomeptent, arrogant and shameful role in WW2 doesn't really hide the unpalatable truth - unless you want it to. |
‘Incompetent, arrogant and shameful’. Bless. | | | |
| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 09:29 - Jan 3 with 2626 views | ElephantintheRoom |
| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 08:59 - Jan 3 by Oxford_Blue |
Well said. |
Hmmm I don't think you read my post or understand the true cost and impact of WW2 to the people of Europe. Yes Britain eventually took on a very minor role in a war they started. Yes something like 250,000 British and colonial lives were lost in a global conflict that slaughtered tens of millions. BUT in 1939 we triggered a war we were in no way prepared for and utterly incapable of doing anything meaningful about for five years - and even then at war's end we left Poland in the clutches of a far more brutal dictator than Hitler. In 1939 we had a powerful navy - but nothing useful for a war on land or in the air. No capable tanks, no useful anti-tank guns, no concept of modern warfare. We fell for german propaganda of 'blitzkrieg' even though that lightning war was largely supported by horse-drawn supplies. The pinnacle of British air power in 1939 was the Blenheim. The USA, at war with nobody, was already developing the B-29. Our flagship fighter was a derivative of a rich man's plaything. The only capable fighter in 1939 was the Hurricance - turned down by the RAF and developed as a private initiative. If Harry Hawker had not done that we'd have been fighting the aerial skirmishes of late 1940 (Battle of Britain to jingoistic Brits) with glocester gladiator biplanes and the fighter the RAF wanted instead of the hurricane - the Bolton paul defiant with no forward firing guns. Appreciating that declaring war on Germany with no preparation nor the tools to do anything about it was beyond folly, but grossly arrogant and stupid - and cost tens of millions of lives in Europe is nothing to do with politics. It's fact. In 1939 we also closed off 'British Palestine' to desperate European Jews with ghastly consequences for a few million. That's another fact. Puts impending relegation into perspective I guess. | |
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| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 09:57 - Jan 3 with 2616 views | 26_Paz |
| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 09:29 - Jan 3 by ElephantintheRoom |
Hmmm I don't think you read my post or understand the true cost and impact of WW2 to the people of Europe. Yes Britain eventually took on a very minor role in a war they started. Yes something like 250,000 British and colonial lives were lost in a global conflict that slaughtered tens of millions. BUT in 1939 we triggered a war we were in no way prepared for and utterly incapable of doing anything meaningful about for five years - and even then at war's end we left Poland in the clutches of a far more brutal dictator than Hitler. In 1939 we had a powerful navy - but nothing useful for a war on land or in the air. No capable tanks, no useful anti-tank guns, no concept of modern warfare. We fell for german propaganda of 'blitzkrieg' even though that lightning war was largely supported by horse-drawn supplies. The pinnacle of British air power in 1939 was the Blenheim. The USA, at war with nobody, was already developing the B-29. Our flagship fighter was a derivative of a rich man's plaything. The only capable fighter in 1939 was the Hurricance - turned down by the RAF and developed as a private initiative. If Harry Hawker had not done that we'd have been fighting the aerial skirmishes of late 1940 (Battle of Britain to jingoistic Brits) with glocester gladiator biplanes and the fighter the RAF wanted instead of the hurricane - the Bolton paul defiant with no forward firing guns. Appreciating that declaring war on Germany with no preparation nor the tools to do anything about it was beyond folly, but grossly arrogant and stupid - and cost tens of millions of lives in Europe is nothing to do with politics. It's fact. In 1939 we also closed off 'British Palestine' to desperate European Jews with ghastly consequences for a few million. That's another fact. Puts impending relegation into perspective I guess. |
I stopped reading after you said Britain started the war. Yes, we declared war on Germany but I don't think declaring war on a murderous dictator is a bad thing. Far more lives would have been lost if the world had stood by and allowed Hitler to grow even stronger and develop an iron grip on Europe. If that had happened European Jewry would have been eliminated in its entirety. I actually can't believe I need to explain this to somebody ... | |
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| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 10:19 - Jan 3 with 2595 views | ElephantintheRoom |
| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 09:57 - Jan 3 by 26_Paz |
I stopped reading after you said Britain started the war. Yes, we declared war on Germany but I don't think declaring war on a murderous dictator is a bad thing. Far more lives would have been lost if the world had stood by and allowed Hitler to grow even stronger and develop an iron grip on Europe. If that had happened European Jewry would have been eliminated in its entirety. I actually can't believe I need to explain this to somebody ... |
Pity. If you try and comprehend something you might actually understand it. The original post was a joke about British attitudes in 1939. You chose to distort that and any responses that chose not to ignore reality. Your choice. BUT it is amazing that in 1939 we closed off 'British Palestine' to millions of Jews and you see that as beneficial for European Jews. The labour opposition of 1939 was horrified and vowed to set that inhuman policy right. After the war, when in power, they did the exact opposite of course. Those Jews who survived the holocaust and tried again to get into 'British Palestine' (after being 'sent home' to the countries that persecuted them) - many ended up in prison camps again, behind barbed wire and armed watch towers. Run not by evil Nazis. But by plucky Brits. | |
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| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 10:20 - Jan 3 with 2587 views | jjblue84 |
| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 09:57 - Jan 3 by 26_Paz |
I stopped reading after you said Britain started the war. Yes, we declared war on Germany but I don't think declaring war on a murderous dictator is a bad thing. Far more lives would have been lost if the world had stood by and allowed Hitler to grow even stronger and develop an iron grip on Europe. If that had happened European Jewry would have been eliminated in its entirety. I actually can't believe I need to explain this to somebody ... |
And the same excuse was used for the war on Saddam Hussein! We didn’t declare war on Germany because he was a murderous dictator, the same as in Iraq! |  | | |
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| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 10:29 - Jan 3 with 2581 views | 26_Paz |
| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 10:19 - Jan 3 by ElephantintheRoom |
Pity. If you try and comprehend something you might actually understand it. The original post was a joke about British attitudes in 1939. You chose to distort that and any responses that chose not to ignore reality. Your choice. BUT it is amazing that in 1939 we closed off 'British Palestine' to millions of Jews and you see that as beneficial for European Jews. The labour opposition of 1939 was horrified and vowed to set that inhuman policy right. After the war, when in power, they did the exact opposite of course. Those Jews who survived the holocaust and tried again to get into 'British Palestine' (after being 'sent home' to the countries that persecuted them) - many ended up in prison camps again, behind barbed wire and armed watch towers. Run not by evil Nazis. But by plucky Brits. |
I didn't distort anything. You wilfully belittled the efforts of those who fought and died for your freedom to post nonsense on the internet. | |
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| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 11:00 - Jan 3 with 2561 views | Oxford_Blue |
| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 09:29 - Jan 3 by ElephantintheRoom |
Hmmm I don't think you read my post or understand the true cost and impact of WW2 to the people of Europe. Yes Britain eventually took on a very minor role in a war they started. Yes something like 250,000 British and colonial lives were lost in a global conflict that slaughtered tens of millions. BUT in 1939 we triggered a war we were in no way prepared for and utterly incapable of doing anything meaningful about for five years - and even then at war's end we left Poland in the clutches of a far more brutal dictator than Hitler. In 1939 we had a powerful navy - but nothing useful for a war on land or in the air. No capable tanks, no useful anti-tank guns, no concept of modern warfare. We fell for german propaganda of 'blitzkrieg' even though that lightning war was largely supported by horse-drawn supplies. The pinnacle of British air power in 1939 was the Blenheim. The USA, at war with nobody, was already developing the B-29. Our flagship fighter was a derivative of a rich man's plaything. The only capable fighter in 1939 was the Hurricance - turned down by the RAF and developed as a private initiative. If Harry Hawker had not done that we'd have been fighting the aerial skirmishes of late 1940 (Battle of Britain to jingoistic Brits) with glocester gladiator biplanes and the fighter the RAF wanted instead of the hurricane - the Bolton paul defiant with no forward firing guns. Appreciating that declaring war on Germany with no preparation nor the tools to do anything about it was beyond folly, but grossly arrogant and stupid - and cost tens of millions of lives in Europe is nothing to do with politics. It's fact. In 1939 we also closed off 'British Palestine' to desperate European Jews with ghastly consequences for a few million. That's another fact. Puts impending relegation into perspective I guess. |
Your portrayal of history is a gross misunderstanding of the reality and worse still you do not mention or condemn the role played by Germany. You simply cherry pick facts to suit your anti-British views.
To suggest that Britain was responsible for starting WW2 is not accurate.
Britain had for a decade sought to avoid war by appeasing Germany.
Hitler and the Nazis were driven by a clear motivation to create a Germania - and this involved breaking peace treaties, annexing sovereign states and invading Poland.
In light of this, Britain and the Allies stood up to Hitler and weren’t prepared to tolerate his aggression. I presume you will have no issue in condemning Hitler, the Nazi party and their policies but I would just like to clarify that because I get a sense that you only reserve your criticism for this country.
Japan would have caused a global conflict in any event into which the US and UK would have nbeen drawn; and to suggest that Hitler could be left alone in Europe unchallenged is what Halifax and co suggested and which was rejected by Parliament. It also would have simply allowed Hitler to turn his attention on Britain later, from a position of greater strength and dictate terms. You and the likes of Halifax might want to placate and do deals with Hitler but the country didn’t. And that I thought was the whole point of the opening post.
Your figures are also wrong. Britain and the empire lost around 450,000 dead. [Post edited 3 Jan 2019 11:11]
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| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 11:07 - Jan 3 with 2553 views | shoopdelang |
| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 15:39 - Jan 2 by Oxford_Blue |
Ah, a left wing revisionist take.
Britain not only financed Russia (together with the US) but defeated the Germans for the first time and showed they could be stopped. Britain then fought Japan in the Far East, a naval war all around the world, and was fighting German and axis troops in North Africa well before the Americans committed forces to the European theatre.
Britain also provided the US with bases from which to bomb Germany and bomber command played a significant part in that.
Yes, it was the Soviets who were largely responsible for defeating Germany but they relied on significant allied economic aid and weapons. |
Left wing revisionist take haha... Well put. |  | | |
| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 11:15 - Jan 3 with 2548 views | 26_Paz |
| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 11:00 - Jan 3 by Oxford_Blue |
Your portrayal of history is a gross misunderstanding of the reality and worse still you do not mention or condemn the role played by Germany. You simply cherry pick facts to suit your anti-British views.
To suggest that Britain was responsible for starting WW2 is not accurate.
Britain had for a decade sought to avoid war by appeasing Germany.
Hitler and the Nazis were driven by a clear motivation to create a Germania - and this involved breaking peace treaties, annexing sovereign states and invading Poland.
In light of this, Britain and the Allies stood up to Hitler and weren’t prepared to tolerate his aggression. I presume you will have no issue in condemning Hitler, the Nazi party and their policies but I would just like to clarify that because I get a sense that you only reserve your criticism for this country.
Japan would have caused a global conflict in any event into which the US and UK would have nbeen drawn; and to suggest that Hitler could be left alone in Europe unchallenged is what Halifax and co suggested and which was rejected by Parliament. It also would have simply allowed Hitler to turn his attention on Britain later, from a position of greater strength and dictate terms. You and the likes of Halifax might want to placate and do deals with Hitler but the country didn’t. And that I thought was the whole point of the opening post.
Your figures are also wrong. Britain and the empire lost around 450,000 dead. [Post edited 3 Jan 2019 11:11]
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Very well explained. He's so far wrong and entrenched within his own misunderstanding though that I fear we may be wasting our time ... | |
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| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 13:44 - Jan 3 with 2504 views | Throbbe |
| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 17:30 - Jan 2 by Pinewoodblue |
Pleasantly surprised thought it was going to be a Brexit post. |
No, if that were the case blueblood would be lavishly praising the character of the young generation who rather than give up based on the result of a flawed referendum show great resolve in continuing to campaign to get the decision reversed.
Probably. |  |
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| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 13:48 - Jan 3 with 2498 views | DanTheMan |
| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 09:29 - Jan 3 by ElephantintheRoom |
Hmmm I don't think you read my post or understand the true cost and impact of WW2 to the people of Europe. Yes Britain eventually took on a very minor role in a war they started. Yes something like 250,000 British and colonial lives were lost in a global conflict that slaughtered tens of millions. BUT in 1939 we triggered a war we were in no way prepared for and utterly incapable of doing anything meaningful about for five years - and even then at war's end we left Poland in the clutches of a far more brutal dictator than Hitler. In 1939 we had a powerful navy - but nothing useful for a war on land or in the air. No capable tanks, no useful anti-tank guns, no concept of modern warfare. We fell for german propaganda of 'blitzkrieg' even though that lightning war was largely supported by horse-drawn supplies. The pinnacle of British air power in 1939 was the Blenheim. The USA, at war with nobody, was already developing the B-29. Our flagship fighter was a derivative of a rich man's plaything. The only capable fighter in 1939 was the Hurricance - turned down by the RAF and developed as a private initiative. If Harry Hawker had not done that we'd have been fighting the aerial skirmishes of late 1940 (Battle of Britain to jingoistic Brits) with glocester gladiator biplanes and the fighter the RAF wanted instead of the hurricane - the Bolton paul defiant with no forward firing guns. Appreciating that declaring war on Germany with no preparation nor the tools to do anything about it was beyond folly, but grossly arrogant and stupid - and cost tens of millions of lives in Europe is nothing to do with politics. It's fact. In 1939 we also closed off 'British Palestine' to desperate European Jews with ghastly consequences for a few million. That's another fact. Puts impending relegation into perspective I guess. |
There's so much wrong in here it's painful. Blitzkrieg being German propaganda is a new one and I've seen some really terrific bad history around WW2. |  |
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| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 14:31 - Jan 3 with 2478 views | jeera |
| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 11:07 - Jan 3 by shoopdelang |
Left wing revisionist take haha... Well put. |
No it's not well put at all.
I'm pretty much to the left on many matters and find the anti-British crap on this thread insulting at best.
Keep things in perspective instead of taking cheap,worthless shots looking for points.
Millions lost their lives standing up to the Nazi regime. It's not some childish fecking game. |  |
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| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 14:34 - Jan 3 with 2465 views | jeera |
| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 11:15 - Jan 3 by 26_Paz |
Very well explained. He's so far wrong and entrenched within his own misunderstanding though that I fear we may be wasting our time ... |
It's like he's read a couple of entries on Wiki and rewritten his own take on it. | |
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| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 15:19 - Jan 3 with 2441 views | Oxford_Blue |
| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 14:31 - Jan 3 by jeera |
No it's not well put at all.
I'm pretty much to the left on many matters and find the anti-British crap on this thread insulting at best.
Keep things in perspective instead of taking cheap,worthless shots looking for points.
Millions lost their lives standing up to the Nazi regime. It's not some childish fecking game. |
With all due respect, I think you’ve missed the key parts of this.
If you read the comments, you will see that the left wing revisionist comment was aimed at the poster who is anti British empire/British history and who seeks in every respect to denigrate, misrepresent and tarnish the facts and the memories and lives of those whom you rightly say - as I have already argued - are deserving of respect.
Left wing revisionism is a reasonable term to use. See Corbyn and co, and how they hate any notion of being proud of this country’s achievements and how they can’t wait to declare open season on any imperial period in our history - yet you never hear them condemning the IRA, or terrorists in Palestine, or the legions of left wing dictators who have murdered tens of millions. | | | |
| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 15:19 - Jan 3 with 2441 views | 26_Paz |
| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 14:31 - Jan 3 by jeera |
No it's not well put at all.
I'm pretty much to the left on many matters and find the anti-British crap on this thread insulting at best.
Keep things in perspective instead of taking cheap,worthless shots looking for points.
Millions lost their lives standing up to the Nazi regime. It's not some childish fecking game. |
Fair point that. This is much more to do with the shameful and disrespectful ramblings of a poorly educated imbecile than left / right politics. | |
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| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 15:23 - Jan 3 with 2439 views | Oxford_Blue |
| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 14:34 - Jan 3 by jeera |
It's like he's read a couple of entries on Wiki and rewritten his own take on it. |
Rather than using yet another tactic of the left (and indeed right) of ad hominem attacks - what actually do you dispute in the actual words in my post?
You see, that is called an argument and discussion. | | | |
| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 15:33 - Jan 3 with 2423 views | SpruceMoose |
| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 15:23 - Jan 3 by Oxford_Blue |
Rather than using yet another tactic of the left (and indeed right) of ad hominem attacks - what actually do you dispute in the actual words in my post?
You see, that is called an argument and discussion. |
I'm not sure Jeera was talking about you. I read it as aimed at ElephantintheRoom. [Post edited 3 Jan 2019 15:34]
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"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 15:36 - Jan 3 with 2418 views | 26_Paz |
| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 15:33 - Jan 3 by SpruceMoose |
I'm not sure Jeera was talking about you. I read it as aimed at ElephantintheRoom. [Post edited 3 Jan 2019 15:34]
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So did I | |
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| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 15:37 - Jan 3 with 2411 views | SpruceMoose |
| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 15:36 - Jan 3 by 26_Paz |
So did I |
Yeah so everybody...
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 15:39 - Jan 3 with 2403 views | jjblue84 |
| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 15:37 - Jan 3 by SpruceMoose |
Yeah so everybody...
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The funny thing about that picture is that the guy on the left isn’t wearing a wig or fake moustache... | | | |
| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 15:41 - Jan 3 with 2404 views | braveblue |
Slightly more at stake then!!! | | | |
| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 15:42 - Jan 3 with 2400 views | SpruceMoose |
| IF in 1939 people had the same resolve as this generation.. on 15:39 - Jan 3 by jjblue84 |
The funny thing about that picture is that the guy on the left isn’t wearing a wig or fake moustache... |
Terry McDermott I believe. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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