| The continued screwing over of Greece......no Lexit regrets here ! 22:20 - Sep 18 with 2308 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
I still fail to see why so many are prepared to bang the E.U. drum, I judge institutions by their actions ! Read it and weep......guess what the elites are milking us dry !
https://www.theautomaticearth.com/2017/09/the-only-real-europe-is-greece/
"Summarized: the EU is a disgrace, morally, politically, economically. I know that French President Macron on the one side, and Yanis Varoufakis’ DiEM25 movement on the other, talk about reforming the EU. But the EU is the mob, and you don’t reform the mob. You dismantle their organization and then you lock them up." |  |
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| The continued screwing over of Greece......no Lexit regrets here ! on 22:43 - Sep 18 with 2264 views | StokieBlue |
What do you think should have happened to Greece?
They were totally bankrupt and were bailed out.
The only other option was a sovereign default, a route they probably should have taken (along with leaving the EU and regaining their own currency and devaluing) but they didn't want to take that route. It was their decision.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| The continued screwing over of Greece......no Lexit regrets here ! on 23:12 - Sep 18 with 2229 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| The continued screwing over of Greece......no Lexit regrets here ! on 22:43 - Sep 18 by StokieBlue |
What do you think should have happened to Greece?
They were totally bankrupt and were bailed out.
The only other option was a sovereign default, a route they probably should have taken (along with leaving the EU and regaining their own currency and devaluing) but they didn't want to take that route. It was their decision.
SB |
I agree on what they should have done but the EU have refused to cut them any slack and continue to waterboard the Greek people in the interests of, and for the further enrichment of, financial elites. They are serving their masters well. Oh and there was the small matter of paying no attention to the result of their referendum.
How do you feel about the articles comments on sovereignty ? | |
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| The continued screwing over of Greece......no Lexit regrets here ! on 09:10 - Sep 19 with 2103 views | StokieBlue |
| The continued screwing over of Greece......no Lexit regrets here ! on 23:12 - Sep 18 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I agree on what they should have done but the EU have refused to cut them any slack and continue to waterboard the Greek people in the interests of, and for the further enrichment of, financial elites. They are serving their masters well. Oh and there was the small matter of paying no attention to the result of their referendum.
How do you feel about the articles comments on sovereignty ? |
A few points there:
- How do you think the EU should cut them slack? If they ease off and gift them money without consequences what reason would the other EU members have to ever adhere to the fiscal rules they agreed to?
- "in the interests of, and for the further enrichment of, financial elite" - this is just total nonsense but you like it given your anarchist leanings. Successive governments of Greece made the decisions that got them to this place and the blame lays there - pointing the finger elsewhere because it makes them feel better isn't right. Some of the blame lays with the Greek people as well who are some of the largest tax evaders in the EU whilst wanting the best services they can get as long as someone else is paying for them.
- I thought referendums are advisory? We hear that often enough on TWTD. In this case the referendum was overturned in the court but I tend to agree with you that the result should have been honoured - Greece should have defaulted, left the EU and devalued.
- The point on Sovereignty is a bit of a red herring, whilst the EU may erode some specific powers governments still have a say and are still in control of many things. Should Greece take back control?
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| The continued screwing over of Greece......no Lexit regrets here ! on 09:15 - Sep 19 with 2093 views | No9 |
Now the statisticians say the Greek economy is doing better than the UK?
http://uk.businessinsider.com/greek-economy-now-growing-faster-than-the-uk-2017-
The cost of going back to the drancma would have been significant AND it would have been worthless. No one would have taken it & they would have found it difficult, if not impossible, to buy any other currencies they could, of course have continued internally but the Greeks rely a lot on international business for their ships to trade. |  | | |
| The continued screwing over of Greece......no Lexit regrets here ! on 09:19 - Sep 19 with 2084 views | StokieBlue |
| The continued screwing over of Greece......no Lexit regrets here ! on 09:15 - Sep 19 by No9 |
Now the statisticians say the Greek economy is doing better than the UK?
http://uk.businessinsider.com/greek-economy-now-growing-faster-than-the-uk-2017-
The cost of going back to the drancma would have been significant AND it would have been worthless. No one would have taken it & they would have found it difficult, if not impossible, to buy any other currencies they could, of course have continued internally but the Greeks rely a lot on international business for their ships to trade. |
That article is pretty misleading, it's much easier to grow from a low base, especially when the low base was recently achieved and it's a rebound bounce.
With regards to going back to the Dracma, I agree it would have been short term pain but they could have converted their large foreign debt to Dracma, printed money and devalued the currency and then paid it all off. They then would have a low currency which doesn't matter so much internally but would spark a huge amount of tourism and would make their exports extremely competitive. In the end this is quite a hard call given all the interconnected things which need to be considered.
It's not true that nobody would have taken it - they would demand whatever the exchange rate was but they would have taken it. Granted that rate could have been very high indeed.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| The continued screwing over of Greece......no Lexit regrets here ! on 18:01 - Sep 19 with 1972 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| The continued screwing over of Greece......no Lexit regrets here ! on 09:10 - Sep 19 by StokieBlue |
A few points there:
- How do you think the EU should cut them slack? If they ease off and gift them money without consequences what reason would the other EU members have to ever adhere to the fiscal rules they agreed to?
- "in the interests of, and for the further enrichment of, financial elite" - this is just total nonsense but you like it given your anarchist leanings. Successive governments of Greece made the decisions that got them to this place and the blame lays there - pointing the finger elsewhere because it makes them feel better isn't right. Some of the blame lays with the Greek people as well who are some of the largest tax evaders in the EU whilst wanting the best services they can get as long as someone else is paying for them.
- I thought referendums are advisory? We hear that often enough on TWTD. In this case the referendum was overturned in the court but I tend to agree with you that the result should have been honoured - Greece should have defaulted, left the EU and devalued.
- The point on Sovereignty is a bit of a red herring, whilst the EU may erode some specific powers governments still have a say and are still in control of many things. Should Greece take back control?
SB |
In this instance I was referring to the elites benefitting from the real estate e auctions referenced in the article. Travel means my reply is by necessity brief ! | |
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| The continued screwing over of Greece......no Lexit regrets here ! on 18:43 - Sep 19 with 1944 views | Radlett_blue |
| The continued screwing over of Greece......no Lexit regrets here ! on 09:19 - Sep 19 by StokieBlue |
That article is pretty misleading, it's much easier to grow from a low base, especially when the low base was recently achieved and it's a rebound bounce.
With regards to going back to the Dracma, I agree it would have been short term pain but they could have converted their large foreign debt to Dracma, printed money and devalued the currency and then paid it all off. They then would have a low currency which doesn't matter so much internally but would spark a huge amount of tourism and would make their exports extremely competitive. In the end this is quite a hard call given all the interconnected things which need to be considered.
It's not true that nobody would have taken it - they would demand whatever the exchange rate was but they would have taken it. Granted that rate could have been very high indeed.
SB |
Letting Greece into the Euro in the first place was insane, helped by investment banks dressing up their balance sheet.
Greece remaining in the Euro was always bonkers & it has let the Greek economy into hideous depression. However, the Eurocrats were (rightly) afraid that if Greece were let go, then Ireland/Spain/Portugal etc would also have been forced out & the Euro would have collapsed.
The Euro was a bad idea anyway if individual countries remained in control of their finances & it will ultimately collapse. |  |
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| The continued screwing over of Greece......no Lexit regrets here ! on 19:19 - Sep 19 with 1923 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The continued screwing over of Greece......no Lexit regrets here ! on 18:43 - Sep 19 by Radlett_blue |
Letting Greece into the Euro in the first place was insane, helped by investment banks dressing up their balance sheet.
Greece remaining in the Euro was always bonkers & it has let the Greek economy into hideous depression. However, the Eurocrats were (rightly) afraid that if Greece were let go, then Ireland/Spain/Portugal etc would also have been forced out & the Euro would have collapsed.
The Euro was a bad idea anyway if individual countries remained in control of their finances & it will ultimately collapse. |
It's true that the Greek central bank cooked the books to join the Euro. But when it all came crashing down and it looked like Greece would leave the EU the EU lead Frankfurt group replaced the elected Greeek PM with the very banker who cooked the books in the first place.
You couldn't make it up. |  |
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| The continued screwing over of Greece......no Lexit regrets here ! on 20:01 - Sep 19 with 1872 views | WeWereZombies |
| The continued screwing over of Greece......no Lexit regrets here ! on 19:19 - Sep 19 by GlasgowBlue |
It's true that the Greek central bank cooked the books to join the Euro. But when it all came crashing down and it looked like Greece would leave the EU the EU lead Frankfurt group replaced the elected Greeek PM with the very banker who cooked the books in the first place.
You couldn't make it up. |
This is a difficult one, I don't agree with BanksterDebtSlave on what I see as the necessary fiscal control exerted upon Greece but i do agree with BDS on the unnecessary burden placed upon poorer Greeks by the EU (even if that is the fault of richer Greeks). For once I am a bit less flag waving for Europe than Stokie - he is right that the EU have to act but they could have gone about it in a more sympathetic way. Radlet has quite rightly brought up the bad decision to include Greece in the Eurozone but, to paraphrase and generally mangle Mark Twain, I think predictions of the Euro's demise are premature - it is fine for healthy and even mildly struggling economies (providing they are happy to surrender their national reserves).
However, sorry Glassers, I don't think you can lay all the blame for Greece joining the Euro in the first place on their central bank - Frankfurt turned a blind eye and may even have encouraged stretching the rules way beyond any rational interpretation. The only silver lining to this cloud is that Greece, unlike Northern Ireland after Brexit should it happen, will get considerable assistance from the EU to rebuild a depressed economy. |  |
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